Drivetrain slop/play

[Rjulrich61]

Hello all,
I've been trying to troubleshoot the sloppiness in my 2016 6mt f80 m3 drive train. There seems to be quiet a bit of drivetrain slop during throttle off and throttle on. This occurs in a way that creates a bit of hesitation when rolling back on the throttle in just about any gear. Yes there is a clunk associated with it, I'm not concerned by completely and have read all about it. Differential bushings are fine...

Have any of you experienced a similar feeling? It feels like play in the drivetrain while rolling on and off the throttle.

I'm custom tuned on e85 for a reference! (Excessive wear potentially?)

Thanks in advance!

[chrisjguzman]

Originally Posted by Rjulrich61

Hello all,
I've been trying to troubleshoot the sloppiness in my 2016 6mt f80 m3 drive train. There seems to be quiet a bit of drivetrain slop during throttle off and throttle on. This occurs in a way that creates a bit of hesitation when rolling back on the throttle in just about any gear. Yes there is a clunk associated with it, I'm not concerned by completely and have read all about it. Differential bushings are fine...

Have any of you experienced a similar feeling? It feels like play in the drivetrain while rolling on and off the throttle.

I'm custom tuned on e85 for a reference! (Excessive wear potentially?)

Thanks in advance!

Transmission bushing

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by chrisjguzman

Transmission bushing

Thanks for the reply, are you talking about the transmission mount bushings?

Thanks!

[TopJimmy]

Does the stick move when you go on/off throttle? If you dig first really hard is second hard to find? If yes, try Rogue trans bushings. Easy DIY and tightens up manual trans "twist" problems. I even put them under my DCT.

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Does the stick move when you go on/off throttle? If you dig first really hard is second hard to find? If yes, try Rogue trans bushings. Easy DIY and tightens up manual trans "twist" problems. I even put them under my DCT.

It's not the shifter enguagement as much, it's more of the the driveline slop when lifting off and on the throttle. It's not tight at all, creates hesitation in the throttle.

[nochillm3]

Originally Posted by Rjulrich61

It's not the shifter enguagement as much, it's more of the the driveline slop when lifting off and on the throttle. It's not tight at all, creates hesitation in the throttle.

You may not be experiencing the shifting engagement issue that some 6MT owners have had as consequence of the added power but, having just eliminated my shift issues/gear lockout and drivetrain sloppiness entirely, I’ll share with you what I did as I anticipate this will is the same remedy, whether or not you have shifting issues

What kind of power are you making? I ask because I just, literally yesterday, resolved my lockout issues when shifting.

I did this in stages but I would recommend just doing it all because that’s what it took to eliminate the issue. In order of what I did:

1. Rogue transmission mounts (50% improvement)
2. Vargas motor mount inserts (10% improvement)
3. AKG trans mount cups (5% improvement, pretty negligible)
4. Turner Dual mount diff plate and purple powerflex bushings, front and rear (remaining 35%)

Basically, while each component improved the shifting, it wasn’t until after I added the diff plate/bushings that I completely eliminated the issue. According to my tuner I’m in “rod bending” territory power-wise (stock internals) so, if you are making a lot of power, your issue may be drivetrain movement and locking it down from front to back is the only way to completely eliminate it.

Rogue mounts are easy and I would do the diff after that if you still haven’t gotten the feel you’re seeking. Pretty much no NVH with just those two, which is amazing.

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by nochillm3

You may not be experiencing the shifting engagement issue that some 6MT owners have had as consequence of the added power but, having just eliminated my shift issues/gear lockout and drivetrain sloppiness entirely, I’ll share with you what I did as I anticipate this will is the same remedy, whether or not you have shifting issues

What kind of power are you making? I ask because I just, literally yesterday, resolved my lockout issues when shifting.



I did this in stages but I would recommend just doing it all because that’s what it took to eliminate the issue. In order of what I did:



1. Rogue transmission mounts (50% improvement)

2. Vargas motor mount inserts (10% improvement)

3. AKG trans mount cups (5% improvement, pretty negligible)

4. Turner Dual mount diff plate and purple powerflex bushings, front and rear (remaining 35%)



Basically, while each component improved the shifting, it wasn’t until after I added the diff plate/bushings that I completely eliminated the issue. According to my tuner I’m in “rod bending” territory power-wise (stock internals) so, if you are making a lot of power, your issue may be drivetrain movement and locking it down from front to back is the only way to completely eliminate it.

Rogue mounts are easy and I would do the diff after that if you still haven’t gotten the feel you’re seeking. Pretty much no NVH with just those two, which is amazing.

Thank you for your detailed response, this is what I have been assuming. I have after market motor and tranny mounts ready to go as well as differential bushings. I'll plan to do all of then in one shot, hopefully this week!

How was the engine mount install, it seems realitively straight forward? I know the differential bushings are a bit of a pain but not too bad. The rear diff plate made that much of a difference?

I'm currently on e85 at around 600whp. I'm planning on a single turbo build in the future so I am planning accordingly... FYI, I am having no lockout issue.

What are you making currently?

Thanks again for the help!

[Skiy]

Originally Posted by Rjulrich61

Thank you for your detailed response, this is what I have been assuming. I have after market motor and tranny mounts ready to go as well as differential bushings. I'll plan to do all of then in one shot, hopefully this week!

How was the engine mount install, it seems realitively straight forward? I know the differential bushings are a bit of a pain but not too bad. The rear diff plate made that much of a difference?

I'm currently on e85 at around 600whp. I'm planning on a single turbo build in the future so I am planning accordingly... FYI, I am having no lockout issue.

What are you making currently?

Thanks again for the help!

I notice a similar issue you are describing. I did the Turner diff brace with tow OEM yellow poly bushings, Rogue transe mounts, Turner poly shift linkage bushing and it definitely helped with some calnk but I still get that driveline noise when taking off as well. I think it might be wear on our cluthc and pressure plate. I would love to get rid of it in my car but only thing that comes to mind is its the clutch or transmission.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by nochillm3

You may not be experiencing the shifting engagement issue that some 6MT owners have had as consequence of the added power but, having just eliminated my shift issues/gear lockout and drivetrain sloppiness entirely, I’ll share with you what I did as I anticipate this will is the same remedy, whether or not you have shifting issues

What kind of power are you making? I ask because I just, literally yesterday, resolved my lockout issues when shifting.

I did this in stages but I would recommend just doing it all because that’s what it took to eliminate the issue. In order of what I did:

1. Rogue transmission mounts (50% improvement)
2. Vargas motor mount inserts (10% improvement)
3. AKG trans mount cups (5% improvement, pretty negligible)
4. Turner Dual mount diff plate and purple powerflex bushings, front and rear (remaining 35%)

Basically, while each component improved the shifting, it wasn’t until after I added the diff plate/bushings that I completely eliminated the issue. According to my tuner I’m in “rod bending” territory power-wise (stock internals) so, if you are making a lot of power, your issue may be drivetrain movement and locking it down from front to back is the only way to completely eliminate it.

Rogue mounts are easy and I would do the diff after that if you still haven’t gotten the feel you’re seeking. Pretty much no NVH with just those two, which is amazing.

Why did you decide against getting AKG or Revshift motormounts? Im having a really bad sloppiness feeling too and thinking a out doing trans mounts, engine mounts and diff bracket after 60k miles and plenty of track days

[Skiy]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Why did you decide against getting AKG or Revshift motormounts? Im having a really bad sloppiness feeling too and thinking a out doing trans mounts, engine mounts and diff bracket after 60k miles and plenty of track days

Akg motor mounts will rattle ur teeth out.

[nochillm3]

Originally Posted by Rjulrich61

Thank you for your detailed response, this is what I have been assuming. I have after market motor and tranny mounts ready to go as well as differential bushings. I'll plan to do all of then in one shot, hopefully this week!

How was the engine mount install, it seems realitively straight forward? I know the differential bushings are a bit of a pain but not too bad. The rear diff plate made that much of a difference?

I'm currently on e85 at around 600whp. I'm planning on a single turbo build in the future so I am planning accordingly... FYI, I am having no lockout issue.

What are you making currently?

Thanks again for the help!

I should be in the mid 700's on full E85 (for reference, 60-130 is @ 6.17 on just a 4th gear data log pull). Motor mount inserts aren't bad to install (about the same level of effort as any other motor mount option) but there will be noticeable NVH, for the VTT I had to bump up my idle to 900 RPM to make it tolerable but what I consider tolerable isn't the same as what others would.

Differential bushings/plate were a PITA install-wise but it was worth it IMO (i.e. noticeable improvement with no added NVH). I can't comment as to how much the dual mount diff plate improved vs just upgraded bushings but I would not have been happy if I went through the trouble to upgrade bushings for them to not be enough for my power-level and have to go back in to do the dual mount plate.

It's also important to note that very soon after I upgraded turbos the stock clutch started slipping so keep that on your radar. Once you get in high 600's WTQ territory, your stock clutch is on borrowed time.

I would take a look through my post history for further detail on some of my experiences.

[nochillm3]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Why did you decide against getting AKG or Revshift motormounts? Im having a really bad sloppiness feeling too and thinking a out doing trans mounts, engine mounts and diff bracket after 60k miles and plenty of track days

Originally Posted by Skiy

Akg motor mounts will rattle ur teeth out.

Inserts should, theoretically, have the least NVH of any motor mount option and I was able to increase the idle to make them tolerable. I do not know if this holds true for other options but, if the NVH was not correctable with idle RPM adjustments, I would have uninstalled them within a week. The first couple drives were pretty brutal until they settled as well.

If you are considering engine mounts and do not have a high threshold for NVH, I would do them last after you have addressed everything else and you are still not satisfied.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by Skiy

Akg motor mounts will rattle ur teeth out.

But they have 2 versions, one similar to OEM and the other one that rattles your teeth out

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by nochillm3

Inserts should, theoretically, have the least NVH of any motor mount option and I was able to increase the idle to make them tolerable. I do not know if this holds true for other options but, if the NVH was not correctable with idle RPM adjustments, I would have uninstalled them within a week. The first couple drives were pretty brutal until they settled as well.

If you are considering engine mounts and do not have a high threshold for NVH, I would do them last after you have addressed everything else and you are still not satisfied.

Thanks a lot, will do! Those rouge engineering transmission mounts had no increase in NVH correct?

[nochillm3]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Thanks a lot, will do! Those rouge engineering transmission mounts had no increase in NVH correct?

Correct.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by nochillm3

Correct.

How many hours is it to swap them?

[nochillm3]

Originally Posted by aswy6

But they have 2 versions, one similar to OEM and the other one that rattles your teeth out

If they have one similar to, but marginally stiffer than, OEM I would think that it would be the same type of experience I had with inserts. The inserts, from what I can infer, should have the least NVH. They mostly help with lateral engine movement so any other mount, if it is using a more firm compound or more rigid design, would likely be worse on NVH.

I'm not advocating that the other options are better/worse or that you shouldn't try anything else but, when it comes to things that may have considerable NVH, I would err on trying to do as little as possible to get the desired result. That's pretty much where I am at, I did as little as I could to eliminate lockout/slop and have no need to experiment further.

[aswy6]

No its great advice to get the inserts, i did not know they even existed. I might get new OEM mounts and those inserts, should be a nice refresh

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by Skiy

I notice a similar issue you are describing. I did the Turner diff brace with tow OEM yellow poly bushings, Rogue transe mounts, Turner poly shift linkage bushing and it definitely helped with some calnk but I still get that driveline noise when taking off as well. I think it might be wear on our cluthc and pressure plate. I would love to get rid of it in my car but only thing that comes to mind is its the clutch or transmission.

Thanks for the reply! I actually replaced the clutch about 5k miles ago with no issues, was getting clutch slip on a custom 93 tune... I'm pretty sure it's just drive line slop through the motor mounts, tranny mounts, and the differential bushings. I will be installing all of those in a couple days, ill report back to you guys. Really appreciate the input!

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Why did you decide against getting AKG or Revshift motormounts? Im having a really bad sloppiness feeling too and thinking a out doing trans mounts, engine mounts and diff bracket after 60k miles and plenty of track days

I didn't, I have the revshift motor and trany mounts. Ecs poly 80a density differential bushings. I'll let you know how they feel, I'm at 32k miles..

[Rjulrich61]

Originally Posted by nochillm3

I should be in the mid 700's on full E85 (for reference, 60-130 is @ 6.17 on just a 4th gear data log pull). Motor mount inserts aren't bad to install (about the same level of effort as any other motor mount option) but there will be noticeable NVH, for the VTT I had to bump up my idle to 900 RPM to make it tolerable but what I consider tolerable isn't the same as what others would.

Differential bushings/plate were a PITA install-wise but it was worth it IMO (i.e. noticeable improvement with no added NVH). I can't comment as to how much the dual mount diff plate improved vs just upgraded bushings but I would not have been happy if I went through the trouble to upgrade bushings for them to not be enough for my power-level and have to go back in to do the dual mount plate.

It's also important to note that very soon after I upgraded turbos the stock clutch started slipping so keep that on your radar. Once you get in high 600's WTQ territory, your stock clutch is on borrowed time.

I would take a look through my post history for further detail on some of my experiences.

I appreciate the feedback! That's good power! I'm looking to be in the mid 700hp range with mid to low 60p torque. Clutch slip will definitely be an issue, but with the single turbo setup it should be a bit easier on the clutch.

What's your thoughts on the revshift mounts? I have those with street density 80a poly bushings. Hopefully it will stabilize the engine and tranny to my liking. I between shifts will be the biggest improvement along with throttle application at low rpms.

I never launch the car, so that's not a concern.

Thanks again!

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by aswy6

How many hours is it to swap them?

Once the car is jacked the Rogues take less than an hour to swap in. If you can slide the heat shield back and get access to the bolts it's a little faster. I like reusing the factory mount nuts on the rogues, since they're coated to prevent rust. You only need to lift the trans a half inch to get enough room for the bracket to slide out.