Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by swagon

Well, from the get-go, the major difference is that we've got various classes of driving licences in the European Union. The categories are mutually recognised within the EU. See here.

With the basic licence (B), driver is allowed to operate a vehicle up to 3,500 kg (7,700 lbs) carrying max. 8 passengers. Can also tow a small trailer of up to 750 kg, but the vehicle + trailer cannot exceed the said 3.5 tonnes.

So if you wanted to tow a GT3 with your RAM 2500, etc., you'd need to go through another tests to get the appropriate licence.

In Germany, the basis is as follows:

1) 12x 90-min theory on main topics
2) 2x 90-min theory on additional topics

You need to prove you've attended the theory sessions before being admitted to the test. If failed, it can be repeated. If successful, you can begin your practical driving sessions.

Driving lessons can vary in length, depending on how good or bad you are behind the wheel. If you do well enough, you can start with these following lessons which are, however, mandatory for everyone:

1) 4 hours on the Autobahn
2) 5 hours on country roads (Landstraßen)
3) 3 hours of night driving

If you pass all three, you can now start your final practical driving test where you drive with a lecturer but they're just closely watching you and are ticking boxes. Need to do emergency braking and demonstrate reversing & parking skills as well as the obvious stuff.

Germany has got one of the more rigorous driving school systems in the EU, although Sweden (and maybe Norway, too Tecnniqe ?) makes you even get on the skidpad.

Some EU countries, especially in the old Soviet Bloc, are much less strict. No motorway, no emergency situations, nothing. But despite that, people still tend not to drive in the left lane on motorways.

And this is how it should be over here! But, I’m probably in the minority with my comment. Honestly, being able to get your license at 16 years old is way to young.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by swagon

Well, from the get-go, the major difference is that we've got various classes of driving licences in the European Union. The categories are mutually recognised within the EU. See here.

With the basic licence (B), driver is allowed to operate a vehicle up to 3,500 kg (7,700 lbs) carrying max. 8 passengers. Can also tow a small trailer of up to 750 kg, but the vehicle + trailer cannot exceed the said 3.5 tonnes.

So if you wanted to tow a GT3 with your RAM 2500, etc., you'd need to go through another tests to get the appropriate licence.

In Germany, the basis is as follows:

1) 12x 90-min theory on main topics
2) 2x 90-min theory on additional topics

You need to prove you've attended the theory sessions before being admitted to the test. If failed, it can be repeated. If successful, you can begin your practical driving sessions.

Driving lessons can vary in length, depending on how good or bad you are behind the wheel. If you do well enough, you can start with these following lessons which are, however, mandatory for everyone:

1) 4 hours on the Autobahn
2) 5 hours on country roads (Landstraßen)
3) 3 hours of night driving

If you pass all three, you can now start your final practical driving test where you drive with a lecturer but they're just closely watching you and are ticking boxes. Need to do emergency braking and demonstrate reversing & parking skills as well as the obvious stuff.

Germany has got one of the more rigorous driving school systems in the EU, although Sweden (and maybe Norway, too Tecnniqe ?) makes you even get on the skidpad.

Some EU countries, especially in the old Soviet Bloc, are much less strict. No motorway, no emergency situations, nothing. But despite that, people still tend not to drive in the left lane on motorways.

1) You must take the Basic Traffic Course before you can take driving lessons with a driving school or practise driving with a lay instructor.

The Basic Traffic Course is mandatory and consists of 17 hours of instruction. This will give you a basic understanding of what it means to be a driver. You must be at least 15 years old in order to take the Basic Traffic Course at a driving school.

2) At this step you will learn about people in traffic, how to drive in an environmentally friendly manner, your responsibilities as a driver, and more.

In order to drive in traffic you need to handle your vehicle well enough to be able to focus your attention on other road users.

Training may take place at a driving school, with a lay instructor, or in a combination of the two. How many lessons you need will depend on your individual requirements and how much you practise with a lay instructor. It is important that you reach the goals for this step.

Automatic or manual transmission?

You can choose whether you want to take your practical driving test with automatic or manual transmission. If you choose automatic transmission for your practical driving test, your driving licence will be marked with a code that restricts your driving entitlement to cars with automatic transmission. If at a later date you wish to expand your entitlement to include manual transmission, you will need to take a new practical driving test.

Mandatory end-of-step assessment

Towards the end of step 2 there is a mandatory assessment. Together, you and your instructor will assess whether you have the skills required to go to step 3.

3) Proficiency in traffic
At this step you will learn to drive independently and safely in varied traffic.

You will learn about issues such as

different road user groups and conflicts of interest
driving in an efficient, economical and environmentally friendly manner
reducing the risk of accidents
overtaking and being overtaken
Training may take place at a driving school, with a lay instructor, or in a combination of the two. How many lessons you need will depend on your individual requirements and how much you practise with a lay instructor. It is important that you reach the goals for this step.

Mandatory safety course on a practice range

Towards the end of step 3 you are to complete a safety course on a practice driving range. The course lasts for 4 hours and will help you learn how to avoid accidents. Among other things you will learn

how to secure passengers and loads
how your manner of driving will determine whether you retain or lose control of the car
Mandatory end-of-step assessment

Towards the end of step 3 you and your instructor will jointly assess whether you have the skills required to go to step 4.

4) Mandatory safety course on the road

This is a 13-hour course. It has 4 parts:

The risks of driving
Driving on country roads, and overtaking
Final driving in traffic
Reflection and summary
In order to benefit from this course, you need to be at a sufficiently high level of skill. Ideally you ought to be at a level where you can pass the practical driving test before you take this course.

In this course you are to further develop

your understanding of the risks of driving
your ability to counteract accidents such as head-on, run-off and overtaking accidents.
your ability to assess yourself as a driver

5) Theory test

You must pass the practical driving test within 3 years of having passed the theory test.

You can take the theory test at the earliest 6 months before you reach the age requirement for the driving licence in question.

If you do not pass the theory test, you need to wait 2 weeks before you can take a new test.

6) Practical test

You will be driving for 55-60 minutes, under varying road and traffic conditions.
The route you drive will have been determined in advance. Your route is selected by a computer.
You will get a safety check question/task before the driving begins.
How you prepare yourself and the car for the drive, and how you park afterwards, are also parts of the test.

Safety check

You may be asked, for example, to check the lights, brakes or warning lamps. In addition you will be asked to explain what the cause or consequence might be if something is wrong.

Tasks you will be given while you drive

You will be given directions in good time as to where to drive, and most of the time you will be asked to drive towards destinations in the form of place names for which you will find direction signs along the way. You may be asked to turn around, park and reverse.


I remember night driving, overtaking, country road, some highway driving and driving on slippery surface (oil) around a track as a means to how to behave and what to do and don't on ice and when traction breaks.

[GB///M]

Been in Germany for past couple of weeks visiting family and decided to rent the M4. Would of preferred the M3 but they only had the M4. Drives well and is definitely real fast but for some reason doesn't feel "special" to me at least. I still very much prefer my M3 CS. I know cliché right. Anywho here's some pics of beaver and got a chance to check out the new M3 touring which I think looks amazing especially in the flesh.

[Humdizzle]

saw this on my fb feed today. its a digital render but damn it has me weak in the knees.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

saw this on my fb feed today. its a digital render but damn it has me weak in the knees.

Not bad... It's really hard to fuck up the new Conti GT anyway.

(unless your name is Mansory).

[Arcades]

OKAY FINE.

Spyder RS is apparently really a thing. The mule for the car is out so... yeah it is happening. Now I can't deny it. It's basically the same setup as the 4RS but they re-jiggered the rear with some air intake because it doesn't have the aero intake as the 4RS.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/08/20...-bucket-seats/

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GERMAN M3

And this is how it should be over here! But, I'm probably in the minority with my comment. Honestly, being able to get your license at 16 years old is way to young.

I don't see any issues with being licensed at 16. The sooner you start developing your road awareness, the better a driver you'll become (…the assumption being you're actually following the laws and not driving like an asshat). Time and experience are far more relevant factors than some arbitrary age.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't see any issues with being licensed at 16. The sooner you start developing your road awareness, the better a driver you'll become (…the assumption being you're actually following the laws and not driving like an asshat). Time and experience are far more relevant factors than some arbitrary age.

I totally agree with this. I also think kids that start behind the wheel at 15 and get licensed by 16 are somewhat more under the influence of their parents than 17-18 year olds. At 15-16, they may be thinking mom and dad are weird, but by 17-18 they have no doubt mom and dad are complete idiots and are therefore less likely to listen.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

I totally agree with this. I also think kids that start behind the wheel at 15 and get licensed by 16 are somewhat more under the influence of their parents than 17-18 year olds. At 15-16, they may be thinking mom and dad are weird, but by 17-18 they have no doubt mom and dad are complete idiots and are therefore less likely to listen.

Good point. I began driving at 14, so by 16 - and following the required driver's training - I was already comfortable behind the wheel. I have partners who didn't become licensed driver's until they applied to become cops (..and you see the lack of experience play out when they are driving patrol cars). That's just weird to be a functioning adult in the U.S. with no driver's license.

[kyrix1st]

I will continue to bitch about the mundane torque converter transmission in the latest M cars, because they ruined one of the focal interaction points.
DCT was one of the high points in our cars, evidenced by G8xers who flash the sht out of the ZF8 to try to emulate that F8x DCT feeling even at the cost of compromising long term reliability.

Originally Posted by GB///M

Been in Germany for past couple of weeks visiting family and decided to rent the M4. Would of preferred the M3 but they only had the M4. Drives well and is definitely real fast but for some reason doesn't feel "special" to me at least. I still very much prefer my M3 CS. I know cliché right. Anywho here's some pics of beaver and got a chance to check out the new M3 touring which I think looks amazing especially in the flesh.

[kyrix1st]

I recall you having 718 Spyder at one point. Does it drive like it has solid chassis rigidity? Or is Cayman just more solid as one would expect?
I also wonder if heat is well insulated up top when the sun is hot.

Originally Posted by Arcades

OKAY FINE.

Spyder RS is apparently really a thing. The mule for the car is out so... yeah it is happening. Now I can't deny it. It's basically the same setup as the 4RS but they re-jiggered the rear with some air intake because it doesn't have the aero intake as the 4RS.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/08/20...-bucket-seats/

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I recall you having 718 Spyder at one point. Does it drive like it has solid chassis rigidity? Or is Cayman just more solid as one would expect?
I also wonder if heat is well insulated up top when the sun is hot.

I actually never had the 718 Spyder but I had considered it, but my preference is the Cayman. I gotten my hands to drive the Spyder and it felt more or less the same. 718 Cayman GT4 and Spyder are this time, the same even for the GT versions unlike the 981. Spyder does have less aero but it isn't going to be that noticeable for most drivers. Though, if I remember correctly the Spyder did feel a "little" more quiet because you aren't just completely stuck with the engine behind you. I am going to guess this is going to be the case with the Spyder RS as well because the engine isn't literally behind your head so the car doesn't feel as raw as the Cayman.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Good point. I began driving at 14, so by 16 - and following the required driver's training - I was already comfortable behind the wheel. I have partners who didn't become licensed driver's until they applied to become cops (..and you see the lack of experience play out when they are driving patrol cars). That's just weird to be a functioning adult in the U.S. with no driver's license.

It really depends on who is teaching. My father never taught me, it was a driving instructor who did and I'm glad that it was the him because even at that time my father's driving skills have already deteriorated.

A lot of drivers in LA, especially SGV that are the older generation, only started driving after they came to the States because they never needed to do so in China or Taiwan. That is why they are generally bad drivers or very slow. My father was a very good driver, he was the only one that drove us when we lived in Taiwan. Of course, age plays into his deteriorating driving skills.

So I do agree with Sedan, learning and developing your skills early on matters. But it does also matter having good influences when you are developing your skills as a driver (like a lot of things), otherwise you have those dumb asses doing "street takeovers".

[kyrix1st]

After driving coupes with slick tops for a while, I really miss that hair breeze I used to get with my Z4. My other half is against it though, as she does not think it is safe and understandably so.

Originally Posted by Arcades

I actually never had the 718 Spyder but I had considered it, but my preference is the Cayman. I gotten my hands to drive the Spyder and it felt more or less the same. 718 Cayman GT4 and Spyder are this time, the same even for the GT versions unlike the 981. Spyder does have less aero but it isn't going to be that noticeable for most drivers. Though, if I remember correctly the Spyder did feel a "little" more quiet because you aren't just completely stuck with the engine behind you. I am going to guess this is going to be the case with the Spyder RS as well because the engine isn't literally behind your head so the car doesn't feel as raw as the Cayman.



It really depends on who is teaching. My father never taught me, it was a driving instructor who did and I'm glad that it was the him because even at that time my father's driving skills have already deteriorated.

A lot of drivers in LA, especially SGV that are the older generation, only started driving after they came to the States because they never needed to do so in China or Taiwan. That is why they are generally bad drivers or very slow. My father was a very good driver, he was the only one that drove us when we lived in Taiwan. Of course, age plays into his deteriorating driving skills.

So I do agree with Sedan, learning and developing your skills early on matters. But it does also matter having good influences when you are developing your skills as a driver (like a lot of things), otherwise you have those dumb asses doing "street takeovers".

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

After driving coupes with slick tops for a while, I really miss that hair breeze I used to get with my Z4. My other half is against it though, as she does not think it is safe and understandably so.

Its ok probably the soft top giving that feeling but it isn't unsafe. Spyder is one of the more iconic and unique Porsches out there. If the GT4/4RS is rare, the Spyder/Spyder RS will be an unicorn. I have seen two Spyders all these years and that was at the dealership, both times lol. One was a white 981 and owned. The other was a 718 (982), the guy who ordered it decided not to take delivery and I got my hands on it briefly before it was sold literally the day after.

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't see any issues with being licensed at 16. The sooner you start developing your road awareness, the better a driver you'll become (…the assumption being you're actually following the laws and not driving like an asshat). Time and experience are far more relevant factors than some arbitrary age.

Yeah, I can see where starting to drive at an earlier age develops road awareness. However, I have come across quite a few kids who lack common road sense awareness such as following to closely, not signaling, cutting people off, weaving in and out of traffic. The list goes on. This goes back to what you said about actually following laws and not driving like asshats. I’m actually glad that I had to go through the German fahrschule to obtain my license. It prepared me to be a better driver on German streets ( Landstrasse ) as well as the autobahn. I can only imagine what a 16 year old without proper training and tutelage would do on the Autobahn.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Good point. I began driving at 14, so by 16 - and following the required driver's training - I was already comfortable behind the wheel. I have partners who didn't become licensed driver's until they applied to become cops (..and you see the lack of experience play out when they are driving patrol cars). That's just weird to be a functioning adult in the U.S. with no driver's license.

I am guessing these are mostly younger people who never got a license as a kid? I'm 37 and everyone when I was in HS couldn't wait to get a license. I got mine exactly 3 weeks after my sixteenth birthday because I couldn't get my permit until 3 weeks late for some reason and I was upset about that. In the last decade it seems like a lot of kids have no interest in driving at all.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

I am guessing these are mostly younger people who never got a license as a kid? I'm 37 and everyone when I was in HS couldn't wait to get a license. I got mine exactly 3 weeks after my sixteenth birthday because I couldn't get my permit until 3 weeks late for some reason and I was upset about that. In the last decade it seems like a lot of kids have no interest in driving at all.

Times have changed, this is no longer really the case, at least not everyone is itching to get their license now a days.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Times have changed, this is no longer really the case, at least not everyone is itching to get their license now a days.

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

I am guessing these are mostly younger people who never got a license as a kid? I'm 37 and everyone when I was in HS couldn't wait to get a license. I got mine exactly 3 weeks after my sixteenth birthday because I couldn't get my permit until 3 weeks late for some reason and I was upset about that. In the last decade it seems like a lot of kids have no interest in driving at all.

Indeed. Most of these were early/mid twenty-somethings I'm referring to. In my day, we all couldn't wait to learn the mystical art of driving.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Indeed. Most of these were early/mid twenty-somethings I'm referring to. In my day, we all couldn't wait to learn the mystical art of driving.

I have a 16 and 18 yr old and yeah, many kids in high school are just not in any rush to get their license. For both of my kids, they got their permits as soon as they turned 15 1/2 and their licenses when they turned 16.

Like you, me and all my friends got our licenses as soon as it was legally possible. The other thing I remember is, if you were a dude, you had to learn how to drive a stick shift of you were looked down on. Now, virtually nobody knows how to drive manuals.

My lucky 18 yr old learned how to drive stick in my tuned F80 M3 AND my brand new 992 Carrera S (he started driving the 992 when it had less than 500 miles on it). Naturally he's a full blown car enthusiast now. I had such a great time over the past year and a half driving with my older son, going on cruises, introducing him to all kinds of music as I taught him how to be a better, safer driver, how to drive stick, turning off the rev match and teaching him how to rev match the old school way, etc.

Unfortunately, my 16 yr old has no interest in learning how to drive a stick even with an M3 and Porsche at his disposal. I would've lost my mind if my dad had cool cars to drive when I was 16.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I have a 16 and 18 yr old and yeah, many kids in high school are just not in any rush to get their license. For both of my kids, they got their permits as soon as they turned 15 1/2 and their licenses when they turned 16.

Like you, me and all my friends got our licenses as soon as it was legally possible. The other thing I remember is, if you were a dude, you had to learn how to drive a stick shift of you were looked down on. Now, virtually nobody knows how to drive manuals.

My lucky 18 yr old learned how to drive stick in my tuned F80 M3 AND my brand new 992 Carrera S (he started driving the 992 when it had less than 500 miles on it). Naturally he's a full blown car enthusiast now. I had such a great time over the past year and a half driving with my older son, going on cruises, introducing him to all kinds of music as I taught him how to be a better, safer driver, how to drive stick, turning off the rev match and teaching him how to rev match the old school way, etc.

Unfortunately, my 16 yr old has no interest in learning how to drive a stick even with an M3 and Porsche at his disposal. I would've lost my mind if my dad had cool cars to drive when I was 16.

Same here! I learned to drive in an '81 Honda CVCC; an ex-gf taught me how to drive a stick in her '92 Honda Civic EX. I wish I could've learned in cool cars.

[GB///M]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I will continue to bitch about the mundane torque converter transmission in the latest M cars, because they ruined one of the focal interaction points.
DCT was one of the high points in our cars, evidenced by G8xers who flash the sht out of the ZF8 to try to emulate that F8x DCT feeling even at the cost of compromising long term reliability.

I agree with you. Leaving the tranny in auto around town it was good, but when I wanted to drive in manual mode which is what I do a lot in my F80 it was actually super boring. Didn't get any satisfaction at all and downshifts were weak.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by GB///M

I agree with you. Leaving the tranny in auto around town it was good, but when I wanted to drive in manual mode which is what I do a lot in my F80 it was actually super boring. Didn't get any satisfaction at all and downshifts were weak.

Yes, it's missing parts of its soul with the ZF which the DCT have plenty of in comparison.

It's boring but also it's used in like every car on the market right now