Downsides of adjustable LCAs instead of Camber plates?

[bwagner]

I only want to increase the negative camber for better tire wear on track days, and do not plan on changing springs at this time.

It looks like the SPL adjustable lower control arms (Here) should accomplish what I want and look much easier to install.

Any negatives I am missing?

B

[ashmostro]

Wow, looks like they finally came out with the street version that includes the headlight adjustment rod. Make sure to buy that if this is for a street car.

As for pros/cons. Some spherical joints can get noisy with exposure to road grim and salt, and these are in one of the most exposed parts of the suspension so it's possible they will get noisy over time. That said, camber plates can too.

Being able to adjust for negative camber by extending the lower arm means you will increase track width and not "tuck in" the top of the tire with extreme negative camber. The flip side is, some folks want to tuck in the wheel so they can run aggressive street fitments.

Really comes down to what your application is - is this for track days? Looks? Is noise a concern? What suspension will you be running?

[bwagner]

My goal is to increase negative camber by fitting as few parts as possible.

I attend about 4 DE and driving schools weekends a year as a high-Intermediate to low-Advanced driver.

On my previous 435 I skipped adding camber and could only get 3 weekends out of square RE-71s with rotating and flipping tires on wheels.

B

[ashmostro]

Either approach will work. You don't need both.

[timhatimay]

There seems to be stories of increased NVH and sounds with camber plates. Would the lower control arms have better NVH performance? I understand it's a spherical bushing so it will be potentially noisier than stock, but it seems it may be in a place that is less prone to sounds on a daily basis. Any thoughts from the experts here?

I want some increased camber, extra steering feel, but minimal weird noises for a daily driver.

Tim

[ashmostro]

If and when “touring” camber plates make noise, it is less obnoxious IMO than if and when spherical bearings in control arms do. The former sounds like clicking and clunking at low speeds, the latter more like creaking or scraping.

This isn’t meant to imply the SPL parts arms will make noise - I’ve never tried them and spherical bearing build varies quite a bit among suppliers. The quietest I’ve ever seen and owned remains Hardrace/Megan, but they don’t make LCAs for the front of our cars, unfortunately.

[ashmostro]

Oh, and if you are a track rat, the other advantage of camber plates over LCAs is the ability to do repeatable trackside camber changes between a street and track setup, if you are so inclined (without absolutely requiring a full realignment). On LCAs that’s not an option.

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Oh, and if you are a track rat, the other advantage of camber plates over LCAs is the ability to do repeatable trackside camber changes between a street and track setup, if you are so inclined (without absolutely requiring a full realignment). On LCAs that’s not an option.

How much does the toe tend to change during your trackside camber adjustment? Or is it setup with a bit of toe in for the street and the near zero to slightly toe out for the track just works out?

[ashmostro]

Great question. You’re right that you’re going to have a compromise with toe with one setting or another, or both if you aim for the middle. What’s also unfortunate is with the plates, your toe goes more toe-in with the track setup which is probably the opposite of what you want. It isn’t a huge change though - I haven’t noticed uneven or excessive wear.

Additionally, the effect of toe change is going to be considerably greater with LCAs than with plates, given the length of the legs of the “triangle” you are changing.

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Great question. You’re right that you’re going to have a compromise with toe with one setting or another, or both if you aim for the middle. What’s also unfortunate is with the plates, your toe goes more toe-in with the track setup which is probably the opposite of what you want. It isn’t a huge change though - I haven’t noticed uneven or excessive wear.

Additionally, the effect of toe change is going to be considerably greater with LCAs than with plates, given the length of the legs of the “triangle” you are changing.

Are you sure you gain toe in with negative camber? With a leading steering arm the additional camber should rotate the hub towards toe out.

[M3Tooner]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Oh, and if you are a track rat, the other advantage of camber plates over LCAs is the ability to do repeatable trackside camber changes between a street and track setup, if you are so inclined (without absolutely requiring a full realignment). On LCAs that’s not an option.

+1 agree with this.

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Great question. You’re right that you’re going to have a compromise with toe with one setting or another, or both if you aim for the middle. What’s also unfortunate is with the plates, your toe goes more toe-in with the track setup which is probably the opposite of what you want. It isn’t a huge change though - I haven’t noticed uneven or excessive wear.

Additionally, the effect of toe change is going to be considerably greater with LCAs than with plates, given the length of the legs of the “triangle” you are changing.

The F8X has the steering tie-rod in front of the wheel center line. If tie-rod length is kept constant, it would result in increased toe-out when increasing negative camber using camber plates.

On the other hand, when increasing negative camber using LCA link, it would result in increased toe-in.

[ashmostro]

No you guys are right. I had it backwards! Thanks for the correction.

Rest of principle applies

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by bwagner

I only want to increase the negative camber for better tire wear on track days, and do not plan on changing springs at this time.

It looks like the SPL adjustable lower control arms (Here) should accomplish what I want and look much easier to install.

Any negatives I am missing?

B

Your link didn't work. Here it is:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&highlight=SPL

[spr]

Camber plates would be good to mark and move from street to track easily. I have slp arms in the rear. They make no such noises in heims. Interestingly the gts guys report taking out the c clips which lower doesn't change the toe. BMW has literature with the gts saying same.

[timhatimay]

Has anyone been using the street LCAs and dialed in some camber on stock or stock-ish suspension?

Also, if anyone has them, what is your opinion? Any better feel or connection at the front? Any increased noises or problems?

Thanks in advance to anyone that has some first-hand experience with these!

Tim

[ts-m5]

I have some negative camber adjusted with KW clubsport.

It's been like one week since I got those lower control arms, bumpsteer adjustment rods and caster rod bushings installed.

So far, I'm not noticing any noises from these parts.

I'm finding good results from the install.

[kern417]

bump. can anyone with some time on the arms provide a review? hows the sound?

[Keebin]

I will update once i install all the spl stuff in a week or so. Il