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      08-25-2019, 04:29 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Not the current consensus, there will be RWD G8x base model. I have no doubts a GTS or CSL will be RWD as well. If they offer manuals too, that is another nail in the coffin for M4 GTS values.
Understanding is that the lower hp stick shift model will be the only rwd. Base and comp pack awd.

You're suggesting rwd only, manual option GTS/CSL?? Or that the lower hp manual "pure" model will kill GTS values? I don't follow.

Drive the GTS and M xdrive on track and I'm confident you'd have doubt about rwd on any future go fast models with > GTS hp. They're fitting M xdrive to the upcoming comp for a reason, and it's not snow traction.
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      08-25-2019, 04:39 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
+1 S58 has a completely redesigned crank hub.

If they actually build a M2 CSL after the CS, it will be the car to have no doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if the M2 CS ends up being more sought after than the M4 GTS, just because of the manual option.

Not the current consensus, there will be RWD G8x base model. I have no doubts a GTS or CSL will be RWD as well. If they offer manuals too, that is another nail in the coffin for M4 GTS values.
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Understanding is that the lower hp stick shift model will be the only rwd. Base and comp pack awd.

You're suggesting rwd only, manual option GTS/CSL?? Or that the lower hp manual "pure" model will kill GTS values? I don't follow.

Drive the GTS and M xdrive on track and I'm confident you'd have doubt about rwd on any future go fast models with > GTS hp. They're fitting M xdrive to the upcoming comp for a reason, and it's not snow traction.
No, general consensus now is what was to be the Pure model is now the base, with higher state of tune. Comp model will be awd, so two models in total. Starting with the M2 CS, manuals will be options for special models going forward.
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      08-25-2019, 05:57 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
No, general consensus now is what was to be the Pure model is now the base, with higher state of tune. Comp model will be awd, so two models in total. Starting with the M2 CS, manuals will be options for special models going forward.
Seems unlikely the high hp CSL/GTS models will get a manual.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-sh...-g80-revealed/

The Pure is the only M3/M4 offered with a manual gearbox because BMW has no stickshift that can handle more than 480lb ft – which higher-grade versions will exceed.
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      08-26-2019, 10:03 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
No, general consensus now is what was to be the Pure model is now the base, with higher state of tune. Comp model will be awd, so two models in total. Starting with the M2 CS, manuals will be options for special models going forward.
If BMW is truly going to continue building track oriented models a la the GTS/CSL, why would they add a manual option? Same reason why Porsche doesn't add a manual option to the RS models - it hurts performance.
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      08-26-2019, 10:49 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
The Pure is the only M3/M4 offered with a manual gearbox because BMW has no stickshift that can handle more than 480lb ft – which higher-grade versions will exceed.
No pure anymore, just base and comp. Base rwd and manual(option), 480ps like the article said. Comp is getting the awd with 510ps and auto only due to drivetrain choice(not increased power). Notice how the X3M and X3Mcomp have same 442tq rating while having different hp ratings(473/503).

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Originally Posted by SunnyD View Post
If BMW is truly going to continue building track oriented models a la the GTS/CSL, why would they add a manual option? Same reason why Porsche doesn't add a manual option to the RS models - it hurts performance.
Why, because customers shopping these special models are asking for it. Porsche heard the crys and is again now offering a manual in the 991.2 GT3. The M4GTS isn't a RS competitor, it is an attempt at a GT3 competitor. Watch when the M2CS is lauched, it will sell at or above msrp just because of the manual option. Unlike the M4CS/GTS that was eventually sold at large discounts to move inventory collecting dust on lots.

Last edited by hellrotm; 08-26-2019 at 11:07 AM..
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      08-26-2019, 11:53 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Porsche heard the crys and is again now offering a manual in the 991.2 GT3. The M4GTS isn't a RS competitor, it is an attempt at a GT3 competitor.
Actually, that's incorrect. The CSL/GTS models are meant to be BMW's version of Porsche's RS models (I'm not saying they're on the same level performance-wise, which I agree with you, they are more in line with the regular GT3s). The CS models are meant to compete with the GT3s. Please be sure to tag me in whatever post that states that Porsche is going to add a manual option in any RS model and I'll admit that I was wrong.
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      08-26-2019, 01:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Smell-test on GTS values, by whatever criteria you want. Drive on track or a back road dialed in, see the interest it generates in a paddock (from enthusiasts of all varieties), pull into a gas station, roll through downtown, ask if your date would rather uber, look at it sitting in your garage... There's no reasonable argument to be made that values should be lower than what they are.
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Actually, that's incorrect. The CSL/GTS models are meant to be BMW's version of Porsche's RS models (I'm not saying they're on the same level performance-wise, which I agree with you, they are more in line with the regular GT3s). The CS models are meant to compete with the GT3s. Please be sure to tag me in whatever post that states that Porsche is going to add a manual option in any RS model and I'll admit that I was wrong.
That is my impression as well. I don't see Porsche going back on PDK for the RS, and if BMW makes another track special, I can't imagine them putting a manual in it. As much as people want to row their own gears, it's so slow, especially with high horsepower cars that just rip through gears.
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      09-13-2019, 08:24 PM   #96
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Seems there are fewer and fewer of these on the market for sale... they must be moving off the shelves now at these prices
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      09-23-2019, 03:25 PM   #97
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I just picked one up that was recently listed. Seems like a nice time to get into one and I missed my '15 M4
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      10-19-2019, 12:14 AM   #98
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Just read this long thread. Very interesting debate.
If M4GTS is a track car first and foremost then it's value is tied to its utility and fun on the track. What's a good modern track car worth? The M4CS is less rare with less one off custom factory parts but may actually have more upside - why? because It's more usable on the road and that opens it up to appeal to more buyers. Plus it's slightly more handsome.
Only time will tell.
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      10-19-2019, 07:11 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Just read this long thread. Very interesting debate.
If M4GTS is a track car first and foremost then it's value is tied to its utility and fun on the track. What's a good modern track car worth? The M4CS is less rare with less one off custom factory parts but may actually have more upside - why? because It's more usable on the road and that opens it up to appeal to more buyers. Plus it's slightly more handsome.
Only time will tell.
It's an interesting thought. But over the long-term, after cars have aged past their probable daily/regular use term (even beyond probable track use term), it's the uniqueness factor that drives value. In the world of performance cars, the most extreme and unique examples of each model tend to command the most.

C7 ZR1 will always be worth more than a Z06.
RS more than GT3.
997 GT2 RS more than GT2.
C63 black more than C63.
GT350R more than GT350.
Z/28 more than 1LE.
E46 M3 CSL more than base or ZCP version.
etc.

If you can drive a car present day and it strikes you with uniqueness, standout characteristics, even quirkiness, then that's usually a good sign for long-term value. Especially as performance cars lack the bespoke engines that they once did, the trend is toward homogeneous. (All-wheel drive, automatic, turbo and hybrid.)

If evaluated in the present-day track use context, GTS is probably priced about right. Unique and capable enough to be worth a premium over domestic options, but lacking the attributes (engine) to be 991 GT3 value.

~12 currently FS nationwide. They're a steal in the 70s and 80s, IMO.
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      10-22-2019, 08:42 AM   #100
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There is one for $350,000 on cars.com. Who wants it?
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      10-23-2019, 02:42 PM   #101
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There’s one for $72.9k right now as well.
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      10-27-2019, 07:48 AM   #102
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I just sold my 6-Speed Lime Rock E92


Was looking at a

M4 GTS
Or
C63 Black Series


Love both cars but will the GTS just continue to drop in value? The Black Series balanced out it seems.


Also sorry to hijack this thread but what is the reliability like on a GTS M4
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      10-27-2019, 08:55 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrezzz View Post
I just sold my 6-Speed Lime Rock E92


Was looking at a

M4 GTS
Or
C63 Black Series


Love both cars but will the GTS just continue to drop in value? The Black Series balanced out it seems.


Also sorry to hijack this thread but what is the reliability like on a GTS M4
Crystal ball question... Perception is we're at the floor, or very close.

C63 black is awesome, but old auto gearbox probably disqualifies for me.

GTS has been bulletproof in my case, other than tires. Most or all still under warranty unlike the black. Go for it.
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      10-27-2019, 10:23 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrezzz View Post
I just sold my 6-Speed Lime Rock E92


Was looking at a

M4 GTS
Or
C63 Black Series


Love both cars but will the GTS just continue to drop in value? The Black Series balanced out it seems.


Also sorry to hijack this thread but what is the reliability like on a GTS M4
Crystal ball question... Perception is we're at the floor, or very close.

C63 black is awesome, but old auto gearbox probably disqualifies for me.

GTS has been bulletproof in my case, other than tires. Most or all still under warranty unlike the black. Go for it.
I'd love to but I don't know which one hahah

A factor is "value"


I'd love the M4 GTS but not when it might be 40-50k one of these days.

I just got my money back on my Lime Rock Edition I just sold this week. 80k

I don't mind enjoying the car for 5-10 years but would like something to retain some sorta value.

Love both the GTS and 63BS

Both have 700-800 world wide
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      10-27-2019, 11:51 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Breathed a sigh of relief when I saw this alt render from Car. Can work with this. Even if the GTS/CSL is good looking, it will be awd.

And likely pushing 4K lbs.

There are a couple GTS’ that can be had for 68/69k as they are listed for 71-72. Trade ins for the car are in the low 60s which is quite a good deal and still dealers will make money at 68-69k. Good value at those prices. Certainly should help to push CS prices down further - which have already dropped about as much as the GTS but within a much shorter period of time.
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      10-28-2019, 07:18 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTrezzz View Post
I'd love to but I don't know which one hahah

A factor is "value"


I'd love the M4 GTS but not when it might be 40-50k one of these days.

I just got my money back on my Lime Rock Edition I just sold this week. 80k

I don't mind enjoying the car for 5-10 years but would like something to retain some sorta value.

Love both the GTS and 63BS

Both have 700-800 world wide
40-50?! They'd be paying you to take them at that point! I keep my GTS up on a lift. Give me an hour I'm sure I can unbolt parts equaling that value.

My advice is don't get too distracted by the inane negative press and the precipitous price drop. The drop has already happened.

You need to drive one. It's special, unlike anything else. Looking more and more like the last of its kind in many ways.

Congrats on the Lime Rock. Believe the GTS is a similar sort of value at this point. Especially over the long-term. I have 2 factory track cars and while the value question for me is more entertaining than meaningful, I'm pretty sure both will be appreciating. Every time that I drive either that's my clear impression. Unique and atypical driving experiences now, let alone in 10-20 years.

I don't know if the ones listed in the low 70's might have stories. (Frozen seems to be a hard sell?) The most interesting listings of late were with Marshall Goldman. one white, one grey. Both listed in the upper 80's. The white one (that was more expensive) is gone, this one remains https://www.marshallgoldman.com/inve...4s9c53gk578964

In my experience, this group isn't particularly negotiable. Might have just been my experience/salesperson.
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      10-29-2019, 08:49 PM   #107
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Has anyone scored a GTS sub-70k yet? I want to hold onto my "prize" of the lowest price GTS sold...
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      10-30-2019, 01:19 AM   #108
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I'm looking for a GTS also.
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      10-31-2019, 02:23 PM   #109
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Has anyone scored a GTS sub-70k yet? I want to hold onto my "prize" of the lowest price GTS sold...
Dealer got one for 63k this month... prices are still coming down.
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      10-31-2019, 03:51 PM   #110
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i think that even if you bought in the high 60's and had it be worth 50k in 5-10 years, that's still a decent amount of held value. i get that that would be a disappointment vs the Lime Rock, though. but tbh i don't get the Lime Rock either. it's far less additional content than the GTS vs M4. But the market is what it is.

with that being said, every single special edition M3 sold in the states has held value or appreciated. will the GTS - sold in very llmited quantity and arguably the biggest value-add in terms of real content - be the first and only one to drop like a rock? none of us know for sure, but i would say no. maybe the people who paid $132k will never recoup their money, but you guys paying 70-80 probably will.
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