How to get peak torque at low RPMs?

[White340]

I've been disappointed with the low rpm torque on my 18 M3 ZCP. I keep missing my 340 xDrive with the dinan piggyback In this respect. Im not talking about off the line mash on the pedal type of power but more when the car is going 20-50mph in 3rd and above gears. It takes a while for the power the build and I usually start feeling it above 3k rpms. This motor is rated with peak torque starting under 2k rpm but when I look at the torque output off the sport display, it is only maxes out at higher rpms.

For instance, at 50mph in 5th gear, I can put the pedal to the floor with the kickdown Button engaged and it will only give me about 260 ft lbs of torque at 2k rpms. I'll get peak torque north of 3500-4K rpms. Of course I can downshift but I want to know what scenarios the car will give me the peak torque (or even close to it) at Lower rpms.

Thanks

[mkoesel]

The sport display is known not to be an accurate source of data for actual engine output. It is more of a marketing tool - a little app to play with for fun.

Even if you did have an accurate way to measure the car's torque in realtime, it sounds like what you are really disappointed with is the way the car feels and/or performs. If you focus in on torque arbitrarily you may very well be missing the bigger picture of what is going on.

That said, according to the official specs:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=923203

The original S55 makes its peak 406 LB-FT torque from 1850-5500 RPM. The updated engine used for the Competition package should be similar. This will be the case no matter what gear you are in. So, in subjective terms, the engine indeed *does* give you peak torque at a relatively low RPM. Now how much torque you actually feel (torque made at the wheels) will depend on which gear you are in.

From the above thread, here are the gear ratios:

6MT: 4.110 / 2.315 / 1.542 / 1.179 / 1.000 / 0.846
DCT: 4.806 / 2.593 / 1.701 / 1.277 / 1.000 / 0.844 / 0.671

So, with a final drive ratio of 3.462, the least of amount of torque you will feel - which, mind you happens only in the highest gear, 6th or 7th depending on your transmission - when the engine is between 1850 and 5500RPM is:

6MT: 406 * 0.846 * 3.462 = 1189.113912 LB-FT
DCT: 406 * 0.671 * 3.462 = 943.138812 LB-FT

In lower gears it will be much more. You can run the math to find out how much.

Anyway, if you're absolutely sure you need more than that, head over here:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=579

and weigh your options. Just bear in mind that, if you do tune the car, you are going to get a lot more power too, because no ECU tune that I know of arbitrarily tries to increase torque while keeping power at OEM levels.

[chetrickerman]

A tune can help make a little more torque down low

[Humdizzle]

The 335/340i have turbos for around town driving. they are tiny and spool up quick, but run out of juice up top. My f30 335i was like this. and I noticed the drop off in low end when I got my f80.

The M3 and other performance cars have turbos that come online in the mid range and pull to redline. This is ideal for racing / track work since you wont ever be below 3-4k rpms in those scenarios. personally though even in my 6 speed f80 I don't need to downshift to pass anyone on the highway, there is plenty of torque.

if you want more low end then you need a bigger displacement motor or electric (C63 or Tesla)

[hellokitty]

Just drive it like a NA car and rev it out. You just need to change your driving style... this is something I had to get used to as well.

My E85 tuned 335is has a ton of grunt down low but runs out of steam up top so it’s a trade off. I usually shift at 2500 rpm and pull away from the pack so the 335 is nice as a daily driver haha

[doug_999]

For 2017+ they retuned the engine to make it more drivable and less crazy (changed the torque curve). Go drive a 2016, rumor has it those are crazy fun.

My M2 with the N55 was better around town. Hard to catch that motor when it wasn't ready.

[RustySeatbelt]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you not happy with the numbers you see on screen and are wondering why it's not showing peak at the room ranges, or are you not happy that you're not getting thrown back in your seat when you try to accelerate?

[nickl630]

CS tune maybe? few dyno sheets I've seen show a decent bit more torque at lower RPM's over the base/ZCP maps.

[CanAutM3]

BMW have revised the tune on all the S55 engine variants. Official torque rating now shows the 406 lb-ft plateau starting at 2350 rpm instead of the original 1850 rpm.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by White340

I've been disappointed with the low rpm torque on my 18 M3 ZCP. I keep missing my 340 xDrive with the dinan piggyback In this respect. Im not talking about off the line mash on the pedal type of power but more when the car is going 20-50mph in 3rd and above gears. It takes a while for the power the build and I usually start feeling it above 3k rpms. This motor is rated with peak torque starting under 2k rpm but when I look at the torque output off the sport display, it is only maxes out at higher rpms.

For instance, at 50mph in 5th gear, I can put the pedal to the floor with the kickdown Button engaged and it will only give me about 260 ft lbs of torque at 2k rpms. I'll get peak torque north of 3500-4K rpms. Of course I can downshift but I want to know what scenarios the car will give me the peak torque (or even close to it) at Lower rpms.

Thanks

Slap another Dinan piggy on and get your mid torque back especially if you have the manual. If you have the dct and don’t want to Dinan, keeping everything in sport+ will help greatly as well.

[Ex_Stig]

Stop driving in Auto mode. Problem solved.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by GNALUZU

Stop driving in Auto mode. Problem solved.

+1. You’re driving it wrong. If you are cruising in 5th+ gear and you want a pop of hard acceleration, use the kickdown and off you will go. Otherwise, keep it in the revs. The car loves being at 3500+, which is why I keep it there.

Yeah yeah, fuel economy. Whatever.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by GNALUZU

Stop driving in Auto mode. Problem solved.

Nothing wrong driving in auto mode when in sport+ and drivelogic3. It keeps you in a lower gear and in the event of a kick down takes you to redline until it shifts again quicker than you can pull a paddle, for straight line performance. Manual mode seems better suited for track work but I can understand how many that come off a previous 6 speed manual feel better around town pulling on it.

[Karmic Man]

Get a tune to get full boost/torque at an earlier rpm...

BMW tuned down the boost/torque at the lower rpm because of drivability reason

You might get frustrated at the end as the car will drift very easily and daily with that much torque at a low rpm

[melvyn]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Nothing wrong driving in auto mode when in sport+ and drivelogic3. It keeps you in a lower gear and in the event of a kick down takes you to redline until it shifts again quicker than you can pull a paddle, for straight line performance. Manual mode seems better suited for track work but I can understand how many that come off a previous 6 speed manual feel better around town pulling on it.

Your the only one ive seen both sides of the pond say this besides me.It shows you how BM encourage you to drive the car in this mode, full on and flat out.You can really have some fun with it from 70 MPH to 130MPH, and just using third and fourth. Its not for the window down and elbow people.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by melvyn

Your the only one ive seen both sides of the pond say this besides me.It shows you how BM encourage you to drive the car in this mode, full on and flat out.You can really have some fun with it from 70 MPH to 130MPH, and just using third and fourth. Its not for the window down and elbow people.

Sadly enough, the dct is being replaced in future M models.

[ellipsis212]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

+1. You’re driving it wrong. If you are cruising in 5th+ gear and you want a pop of hard acceleration, use the kickdown and off you will go. Otherwise, keep it in the revs. The car loves being at 3500+, which is why I keep it there.

Yeah yeah, fuel economy. Whatever.

I have never driven another car like the F80 that loves to hang out at such high RPMs waiting for you to drop the hammer. It's a blast.

[Commanderwiggin]

Sooner have more top end power than low end torque...anyone who disagrees just remember that horsepower wins races.

[Suds]

Supercharger on a large displacement engine!
You will have more low end torque than your tire fund will fund.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by White340

For instance, at 50mph in 5th gear, I can put the pedal to the floor with the kickdown Button engaged and it will only give me about 260 ft lbs of torque at 2k rpms. I'll get peak torque north of 3500-4K rpms. Of course I can downshift but I want to know what scenarios the car will give me the peak torque (or even close to it) at Lower rpms.

Thanks

It simply will not. I had a 6MT ZCP and it would never reach peak torque until about 3krpm. BMW's torque ratings are highly misleading. They may "technically" be true but are impossible to achieve in the real world as you would need to keep the motor under full load at a constant rpm for a very long time = highly improbable.

That said, the S55 is meant to be revved out. Stop lugging it. Defeats the entire point of the car. Fun starts at precisely 3k rpm (Sport+) so you need to change your driving style or you will not be happy.

[TonyDC]

What is the recommended tune on these?

[b_w.]

Originally Posted by TonyDC

What is the recommended tune on these?

If you want all the torque go bm3 stg 2