Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Then it sounds like your 4S is perfect for you. It makes sense you aren’t seeing the value of the T because it’s not what you’re looking for. That’s ok - different strokes for different folks!

Here’s one of many threads where people compare the 991 T vs. S and conclude that the T feels more different than the specs say it should: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1150...questions.html

Yup, read those to for fun.

Curious as to why you’d want a T over a GT4 still though, maybe I missed it. Feel that would be a perfect car for you and all the track days you do. I know hard to find but nice used CPO ones pop up that are cheaper than a T with more power and better brakes stock.

[Multimodal]

Right now I look at my GT350 keys on holidays and weekends and pass on taking a spirited drive as often as I go for it. Mainly because the Recaros are about 1” too narrow for me, but also because my track tires (Goodyear 3R) tramline like crazy once they’re a little bit worn. It’s a great track car but not hitting the mark for me as a street car anymore. I’d like something that works well for street and track.

That said, 991.2 T vs. 718 GT4, I could flip a coin. The interior on the 992 feels way more modern and it’s a nicer place to spend time than either of the older cars. The 992 is the only Porsche I sat in that felt like a $100K+ car.

[gatorfast]

Just a quick spin on the configurator adding the options to the s which are standard on the T and I got a price of $132k which is $16k more than the T. Seems like a great value to me, especially considering the T is a "special" model. Things like the short shifter, rear seat delete, and T interior add that much more specialness to it and you can't option those things on an S.

To each their own though, not sure why so many on here can't comprehend the value of the T. You can literally play the "may as well get the next one up" game with the entire Porsche lineup. Why get an S when a few bucks more gets you a GTS? A well optioned GTS is close to GT3 territory. A loaded GT3 is Turbo territory. The game goes on. No matter what though they are all fantastic cars and more capable than 99% of cars on the road.

[Multimodal]

Some used market data according to CarGurus: the 2019 911 Carrera base averages $100K, the T averages $105K, the S averages $120K and the GTS averages $140K. At those prices the T is a huge performance value over the base Carrera and the price delta between it and the S or GTS is not small, even when used.

P.s. CarGurus reports a 2016 Cayman GT4 is $108K and a 2020 718 Cayman GT4 is $132K.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Just a quick spin on the configurator adding the options to the s which are standard on the T and I got a price of $132k which is $16k more than the T. Seems like a great value to me, especially considering the T is a "special" model. Things like the short shifter, rear seat delete, and T interior add that much more specialness to it and you can't option those things on an S.

To each their own though, not sure why so many on here can't comprehend the value of the T. You can literally play the "may as well get the next one up" game with the entire Porsche lineup. Why get an S when a few bucks more gets you a GTS? A well optioned GTS is close to GT3 territory. A loaded GT3 is Turbo territory. The game goes on. No matter what though they are all fantastic cars and more capable than 99% of cars on the road.

I get that too and never said it or the base car are not great cars. But special because you can delete the rear seat or get lizard green stitching that you can option in an S? I guess, FWIW, you guys see me do this with BMW “special” cars too. I think that word has lost its meaning in the car world today. Should be replaced with sort of different option/appearance packages for less or more depending on the manufacturer. Removing the rear seats unless it is a GT3 etc really makes no sense to me. That’s a big reason why you move to a 911 non track focused variant. Just watch on RL the ones tracking it saying they don’t care about outright straight line speed or love the N/A like feel (driven a base, don’t think it feels more N/A than an S) will be talking about getting the M Engineering tune and brake upgrades. Now your value is out the window along with your warranty.

You are right, I can’t comprehend the value of a supposed special car when it has the same engine and transmission, in this case the lowest form of engine in the line up. It’s what makes the GT3 and turbo models special IMO or the GTS4.0/GT4. Different engine and things you truly can’t get on the lower models.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Some used market data according to CarGurus: the 2019 911 Carrera base averages $100K, the T averages $105K, the S averages $120K and the GTS averages $140K. At those prices the T is a huge performance value over the base Carrera and the price delta between it and the S or GTS is not small, even when used.

From what I remember looking when I was buying used, those numbers are pretty low. I’d be surprised if the market shifted that much.
Could be though, I’m sure the delta is roughly the same.

[gatorfast]

We get it man - you hate the T lol. Don't know what else to say, it is what it is take it or leave it. Between the trim levels and options list there is a 911 for everyone. No need to rain on others parade.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

We get it man - you hate the T lol. Don't know what else to say, it is what it is take it or leave it. Between the trim levels and options list there is a 911 for everyone. No need to rain on others parade.

I’m not trying to rain on anyones parade at all and I’m not trying to be overly harsh, I realize it is coming off that way though. Also I don’t hate it, what I hate is the expert marketing. BMW ///Marketing is excellent but once again they get beat by Porsche marketing.

I’m sure some will be truly happy and that’s all they want out of car (base/T), but they definitely are designed to prod you to move up the line. I’m sure I’d have a blast with a low spec 7 MT one. I would add in the back seats though. That is the silliest of any of this IMO. Very few would be able to tell by driving them if they were removed or not. Reminds me of the weird option deletions BMW does/did with the CSs. A car that l really really like by the way.

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend anyone and thought it would be an easier conversation here. As you’ve probably seen, I haven’t joined the conversation on RL.

FWIW, I don’t think my 4S is a special version.

[Multimodal]

I may be the only one here with a deposit down on a 992 T. I don’t take any offense. The T has always been a controversial model. The aspersions cast by mass market 911 owners will only make us T owners a tighter-knit group. 😂

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

I may be the only one here with a deposit down on a 992 T. I don’t take any offense. The T has always been a controversial model. The aspersions cast by mass market 911 owners will only make us T owners a tighter-knit group. ��

I’m really not trying to do that either. Trust me I have no superiority complex being one rung “higher” than you on the 911 pecking order. We get looked down collectively by a whole shit ton of Porsche purists. At least you’ll have a lighter RWD MT to appease some of them. Remove that cooling system though.

[Multimodal]

The turbos are coming off day one, for sure.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Just a quick spin on the configurator adding the options to the s which are standard on the T and I got a price of $132k which is $16k more than the T. Seems like a great value to me, especially considering the T is a "special" model. Things like the short shifter, rear seat delete, and T interior add that much more specialness to it and you can't option those things on an S.

To each their own though, not sure why so many on here can't comprehend the value of the T. You can literally play the "may as well get the next one up" game with the entire Porsche lineup. Why get an S when a few bucks more gets you a GTS? A well optioned GTS is close to GT3 territory. A loaded GT3 is Turbo territory. The game goes on. No matter what though they are all fantastic cars and more capable than 99% of cars on the road.

For me……the ADM. In the real world, a 992 GTS would have cost me $170k+ including the ADM. My Carrera S cost me $145k-ish with no ADM and a discount. IF I could have purchased a GTS instead with the same terms as my C2S, I would've made the jump.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

For me……the ADM. In the real world, a 992 GTS would have cost me $170k+ including the ADM. My Carrera S cost me $145k-ish with no ADM and a discount. IF I could have purchased a GTS instead with the same terms as my C2S, I would've made the jump.

I was just speaking in generalities. As we all know, Porsche prices their trim levels very strategically where a nicely spec'd car is always in striking distance of the next highest trim.

[NickyC]

Nice.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Nice.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Know what they’re asking for it?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Nice.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Whoa, nice GT4

[swagon]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Nice.

This is how you set the ride height on these cars. None of the "equal wheel gap" positive rake crap.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

For me……the ADM. In the real world, a 992 GTS would have cost me $170k+ including the ADM. My Carrera S cost me $145k-ish with no ADM and a discount. IF I could have purchased a GTS instead with the same terms as my C2S, I would've made the jump.

A 911 GTS would be close to a permanent car, if not one of them. Paring it with a Macan or something utilitarian. You can kind of argue trading the 911 C2S for another or trade-up.

Least that is kind of how I see it.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Know what they’re asking for it?

No idea, but I bet it ain't cheap!

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yep! There's a $6k-ish difference between the MSRP of the T and an S. For that price difference you get bigger/better brakes and more power. Again, I'm not really seeing the benefit of the T over an S except for the seats. There was not a $14k difference between similar builds, so I'm not sure where that number is coming from.

S with added options that are standard on T is a difference of $12,600. That is also excluding couple grand in painted exterior options, which would put difference above $14k.

Carrera T - $118,050

S (with/ Sport Plus 4-way, PASM, Sport Exhuast, Sport Chrono, Lightweight Glass) - $130,650

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That’s not what I said. The -T bridges the gap between base and -S by bringing some “performance” options of the -S to the base, in the same way that the GTS bridges the gap between the -S and the turbo by adding some of the turbo “performance” options to the -S.

With the -S over the -T, you get ~70hp and the bigger brakes. If that is worth $14k, that’s up to each individual buyer. Every buyer has a different price threshold. For me, the price difference between an -S and turbo, both specced to how I liked them, was ~35k USD, and I got a lot for that difference (+130 hp, wider body, wider track, bigger brakes, active aero, AWD, better cooling, wider wheels). But that is me, everyone is different. I love the fact Porsche offers all these choices, plus it keeps the interest up, which is good marketing.

In the end it all depends how each car is specced. Each variant needs
to be properly optioned to makes sense. A fully loaded -T does not make much sense to me.

T is also the cheapest way to get into 992 with a manual transmission. While offering options not available on S. Great thing about the 911, there is a way to build the car to each individuals needs.

Another thing, it allowed a number of people to jump the 992 queue by getting on T wait list. The T kinda dropped out of nowhere.

Seems like the T could be a very limited run until 992.2 production starts.

Originally Posted by gatorfast

To each their own though, not sure why so many on here can't comprehend the value of the T. You can literally play the "may as well get the next one up" game with the entire Porsche lineup. Why get an S when a few bucks more gets you a GTS? A well optioned GTS is close to GT3 territory. A loaded GT3 is Turbo territory. The game goes on. No matter what though they are all fantastic cars and more capable than 99% of cars on the road.

+1 Main issue with all these models is actually being able to acquire an allocation.

On a side note saw a broker advertise a base 992 in-stock for msrp(someone backed out on their order). Basic build in GT Silver, sold in 24hrs after posting.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M3WC

S with added options that are standard on T is a difference of $12,600. That is also excluding couple grand in painted exterior options, which would put difference above $14k.

Carrera T - $118,050k

S (with/ Sport Plus 4-way, PASM, Sport Exhuast, Sport Chrono, Lightweight Glass) - $130,650

I suppose it all depends on configuration. When I built a Carrera T specced almost identically to my Carrera S, the difference in MSRP was $4k. The T is how the base should've been in the first place IMHO......but I digress.