Which one for a daily driver - M4 CS or M4 ZCP?

[BimmerKay]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Welcome to the forum

Either will be just fine.

Now, when asking if the M4cs can serve the 4-season Daily Driver duty, I can attest that it most definitely can.

The whole point of me buying ///M cars since 2001 is for them to serve as dual use cars: practical 4-season daily drivers and track toys. Me getting the M4cs is no different and I've got 2 kids 4 and 7.

The "cheap" looking door cards and the door pulls was one of my two main gripes when I got the car. But I have to say that they have come to grow on me. I like the lightness and simplicity of the interior. There's much more natural mechanical sounds that get into the cabin which enhances the driving experience for me, and the door cards play an important role in that. The car has a little more rawness and direct connection that I did not have with my previous M4 or the M4 comp packs I have test driven. And it is a blast on track, I beat the best time I did with my 2015 M4 by 1.5 seconds on my first time out with the M4cs without even trying hard (and that was on the same tires and wheels).

All that being said, I can't help but feel that the M4cs is grossly overpriced in the US. I paid $83k USD for my LRG M4cs here in Canada, which I find is a reasonable value. But at $100k USD, it's a different story.

You sir are exactly what I want to be when I grow up, and by grow up I mean when I have kids.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by PhillySpecial

EricSMG, great post! The additional money for the ZCP is the carbon M performance parts - splitter/spoiler/diffuser/mirror caps, and (mostly) the M performance exhaust. Even so, the $12k difference seems at least semi-steep on the road...

Edit: FormulaMMM, congratulations on the GTS! I've been paying attention to how much I use the left armrest over the last week or so, and I'd say it's about 50% of the time. Most of my commute is back/two-lane roads without much highway work.

Ah, okay - now we're getting somewhere. I can't see any reason why you'd go for the MP exhaust on top of a ZCP car. The ZCP exhaust, from a 42 year old's perspective, is literally perfect. It's a gentleman's performance exhaust system, if that makes sense. It's enough to invoke the 20 year old inside you without it sounding like you "put exhaust on your car".

It sounds really good both inside and out and is just at the upper edge of what I would considerable acceptable from a volume standpoint. I see this as a waste of money/redundant.

My opinion, of course, but perhaps insight that you can relate to.

Edit 1 - our commutes are very similar. I'm able to kiss 100mph occasionally.
Edit 2 - one thing I will caution you about, though, is that the ride quality with the 20" wheels/tires is pretty bad over broken surfaces. I would expect the 19" CS front setup to be significantly more comfortable.

[Darth One]

There's no problem using a CS for a daily driver other than what you say about the door cards (small issue for most, I think, but if it's a big deal for you then it should be considered - you're 100% correct about the issues opening the door in a parking lot and left elbow comfort)

For your usage, though, it definitely sounds like the regular M4 is better. Order it in San Marino Blue!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Ah, okay - now we're getting somewhere. I can't see any reason why you'd go for the MP exhaust on top of a ZCP car. The ZCP exhaust, from a 42 year old's perspective, is literally perfect. It's a gentleman's performance exhaust system, if that makes sense. It's enough to invoke the 20 year old inside you without it sounding like you "put exhaust on your car".

It sounds really good both inside and out and is just at the upper edge of what I would considerable acceptable from a volume standpoint. I see this as a waste of money/redundant.

My opinion, of course, but perhaps insight that you can relate to.

Edit 1 - our commutes are very similar. I'm able to kiss 100mph occasionally.
Edit 2 - one thing I will caution you about, though, is that the ride quality with the 20" wheels/tires is pretty bad over broken surfaces. I would expect the 19" CS front setup to be significantly more comfortable.

Regarding the MPE, I'd say it's really a question of opinion. I actually even installed an MPE on my M4cs. From a 47 year old's perspective, I find it to be the perfect gentleman's performance exhaust . Discreet with a deep rich purr when the valves are closed and sporty with full of character when the valves open up .

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Regarding the MPE, I'd say it's really a question of opinion. I actually even installed an MPE on my M4cs. From a 47 year old's perspective, I find it to be the perfect gentleman's performance exhaust. Discreet with a deep rich purr when the valves are closed and sporty with full of character when the valves open up .

Yep, fair enough.

I'm not saying the MPE isn't good for some people, just that with the factory CS/ZCP exhaust as good as they are, dropping the coin for the MPE seems redundant... and, perhaps might be too loud for some (for sure too loud for me).

Edit 1 - all of my ZCP exhaust comments are from a strictly valves-open perspective. Closed it is a tad too quiet. Open it's loud/raspy/deep without being over the top in traffic.
Edit 2 - you transferred the MPE from your base M4 to your CS, correct? Had you not already owned the MPE, would you purchase it again for your CS car? In other words, did you install the MPE on your CS car more out of convenience rather than dissatisfaction with how the stock CS sounds?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PhillySpecial

Thanks a million for all of the replies so far!

MNhv, I do still really enjoy the RS5; mine is a 2013 with just over 20 000 miles (my commute is pretty short), and I've never had to run a winter wheel/tire set - the P Zeros have always been OK with quattro. I would certainly love to keep it, but I'm now out of warranty and our household has another Audi if I need it. So, considering swapping it out, but haven't made a final decision as of yet.

That being said, I've always been a BMW guy and don't love the look of the new G8x series, so I'm very tempted to pull the trigger on an F82 now. The competition and CS aren't that differently priced here (CS is about $12k more than a loaded competition through my longtime dealership). Definitely don't mind the CS' lack of full sound insulation, and I've always though that dual-zone climate control is sort of silly.

It sounds so mundane and absurd, but my big concern is the door pulls! I just don't know how you prevent your door from crashing into whatever you've parked next to when you get out, since there's really nothing to grab onto. If there was a recess in the alcantara pad on the armrest like a "normal" car, it wouldn't be an issue. Drop the window and hold the top of the door sill every time you exit the car?

CanAutM3, you're actually the member that I'd hoped would reply! Your weather isn't all that different from what we get here in Philadelphia - talk to me about your winter setup (wheel/tire combo, etc). And $83k CAD is an amazing price! I'm looking at about $90k USD for the competition with all of the M performance parts vs $102k for the CS with executive.

FormulaMMM, that's definitely what I'm worried about! Buyers' remorse is real, and I don't want to think about the CS every time I sit down in the competition. But, I also don't want my elbow to hurt. Are you rolling in yours during the winter, or do you have a different sled?

Thanks for all of the input - keep it coming!

Just to be clear, I paid $108k CAD for my car, which is $83k USD.

I am using the same winter BMW 640M wheel and tire set I had from my previous 2015 M4. It works greats and looks decent enough with some spacers (12mm front and 7mm rear). I am not a big fan of spacers in general, but I don't mind them too much on a winter setup. Without them, I find the wheels look way too tucked in.

As for the door pulls, I developed a technique where I hold onto the door pull with my right hand as I pull the door latch with my left hand which allows me to control the door as it opens.

As for the armrests, I never really used the center one in my previous M4, so the lack of the center armrest is not really an issue for me. The lack of storage under the non-existant center armrest had me puzzled at first, because that's where I used throw my keys, wallet and phone when I got in the car. I finally figured I can use the small storage compartment under the headlight switch for that purpose. I find left armrest on the door card to be perfectly positioned for my size and driving position. I actually find the angle to be perfect which allows my elbow to rest perpendicular on it when I hold the steering wheel. Finally, the overall armrest arrangement significantly improves elbow room which I find makes handling the steering wheel easier, particularly when on track.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

1. Buy Loaded M4 ZCP.
2. Trade 666s for CS wheels (2-4K out of pocket)
3. Save a lot of money.
4. Travel, invest, mod etc with savings.

If the CS wheels were 20's in the front I would have already done it!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yep, fair enough.

I'm not saying the MPE isn't good for some people, just that with the factory CS/ZCP exhaust as good as they are, dropping the coin for the MPE seems redundant... and, perhaps might be too loud for some (for sure too loud for me).

Edit 1 - all of my ZCP exhaust comments are from a strictly valves-open perspective. Closed it is a tad too quiet. Open it's loud/raspy/deep without being over the top in traffic.
Edit 2 - you transferred the MPE from your base M4 to your CS, correct? Had you not already owned the MPE, would you purchase it again for your CS car? In other words, did you install the MPE on your CS car more out of convenience rather than dissatisfaction with how the stock CS sounds?

Yes, I indeed transferred the MPE from my previous M4 onto the CS. I had the MPE replaced by a brand new one late in the summer under warranty due to cracking. Further, my dealer included the exhaust transfer as part of the deal when I bought the CS, which made the financial decision quite easy: brand new MPE and free install, but it wasn't "hassle free" since I had to make an extra trip to the dealer and had to load and unload the exhausts. A minor hassle though considering the benefit of the MPE.

My dealer had an M3cs so I heard the stock CS exhaust side by side to the MPE on my M4cs. There is no comparison, the MPE sounded way better to me. Plus, it saves an additional 17lb . I would have likely paid the extra to get an MPE if I hadn't already owned one. But that is only my opinion.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Yes, I indeed transferred the MPE from my previous M4 onto the CS. I had the MPE replaced by a brand new one late in the summer under warranty due to cracking. Further, my dealer included the exhaust transfer as part of the deal when I bought the CS, which made the financial decision quite easy, but it wasn't "hassle free" since I had to make an extra trip to the dealer and had to load and unload the exhausts. A minor hassle though considering the benefit of the MPE.

My dealer had an M3cs so I heard the stock CS exhaust side by side to the MPE on my M4cs. There is no comparison, the MPE sounded way better to me. I would have likely paid the extra to get an MPE if I hadn't already owned one. But that is only my opinion.

Good stuff.

Side note/thread derail - how do you find the MPHAS/CS setup from a daily comfort AND handling perspective? Specifically, if you know, how does this setup compare to a stock ZCP setup in terms of comfort?

[cliverman]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Welcome to the forum

Either will be just fine.

Now, when asking if the M4cs can serve the 4-season Daily Driver duty, I can attest that it most definitely can.

The whole point of me buying ///M cars since 2001 is for them to serve as dual use cars: practical 4-season daily drivers and track toys. Me getting the M4cs is no different and I've got 2 kids 4 and 7.

The "cheap" looking door cards and the door pulls was one of my two main gripes when I got the car (the other was the lack of comfort access). But I have to say that they have come to grow on me. I like the lightness and simplicity of the interior. There's much more natural mechanical sounds that get into the cabin which enhances the driving experience for me, and the door cards play an important role in that. The car has more rawness and a more direct connection that I did not have with my previous M4 or the M4 comp packs I have test driven. And it is a blast on track, I beat the best time I did with my 2015 M4 by 1.5 seconds on my first time out with the M4cs without even trying hard (and that was on the same tires and wheels).

All that being said, I can't help but feel that the M4cs is grossly overpriced in the US. I paid $83k USD for my LRG M4cs here in Canada, which I find is a reasonable value. But at $100k USD, it's a different story.

M4 in lime rock! Kicks much ass!!

[PhillySpecial]

Interesting that you transferred the M performance exhaust onto the CS, CanAutM3! While I haven't heard them side-by-side, I like both notes. And as a 39-year-old, I didn't really think that either was too juvenile. $83k USD is an outstanding deal!

Your winter setup looks solid; I'm surely going to need a dedicated wheel-and-tire set, particularly given the shocking condition of Philadelphia roads and winter maintenance. Montreal likely has a much better snow removal situation than we do here!

I feel the same way about the in-cabin storage; I put my charging cable, EZpass, and wallet in the center console, but these will likely fit in the compartment in front of my left knee. The armrest angle is a bit more concerning to me, as someone who's 6'2" with long arms. It felt a bit awkward when using it on my test drives, but maybe I'd get used to it?

Darth One, any issues with the GTS' door cards/pulls on your end? Are you using the car as a track-only weapon where you're not really parking it next to anything, or is it a road car/in parking lots as well?

[Darth One]

I park it regularly in parking lots...I have to control the opening of the door with the pull loop and sometimes just let it open to the first stop, and squeeze out. It's stupid, but I make do.

A couple of times, I forgot and it's somewhat horrifying to watch the door swing open and not being able to do anything about it. Luckily haven't damaged anything yet

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Welcome to the forum

Either will be just fine.

Now, when asking if the M4cs can serve the 4-season Daily Driver duty, I can attest that it most definitely can.

The whole point of me buying ///M cars since 2001 is for them to serve as dual use cars: practical 4-season daily drivers and track toys. Me getting the M4cs is no different and I've got 2 kids 4 and 7.

The "cheap" looking door cards and the door pulls was one of my two main gripes when I got the car (the other was the lack of comfort access). But I have to say that they have come to grow on me. I like the lightness and simplicity of the interior. There's much more natural mechanical sounds that get into the cabin which enhances the driving experience for me, and the door cards play an important role in that. The car has more rawness and a more direct connection that I did not have with my previous M4 or the M4 comp packs I have test driven. And it is a blast on track, I beat the best time I did with my 2015 M4 by 1.5 seconds on my first time out with the M4cs without even trying hard (and that was on the same tires and wheels).

All that being said, I can't help but feel that the M4cs is grossly overpriced in the US. I paid $83k USD for my LRG M4cs here in Canada, which I find is a reasonable value. But at $100k USD, it's a different story.

Appreciate your honesty regarding price of C S model

[CachacoF80]

Originally Posted by instarand

If the CS wheels were 20's in the front I would have already done it!

I see. What's your concern here? Aesthetics or having to buy new tires, etc? Seems like CS has the staggered setup so I guess car should run fine?

[IB M]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

The fabric door pulls aren't inconvenient at all. Whether in and out of the car twice per day, or ten times, think they contribute to the "special" interior experience.

The lack of comfort for your left arm on long drives is a problem though, imo. I inevitably end up stuffing a sweatshirt or equivalent over there. Maybe I suffer from tender left elbow.

From the sounds of your post, you better get the CS. It does have that extra bit of cool factor over the Comp, and if you're drawn to it now, that probably won't change.

My guess is that there's going to be a bundle of CS deeply discounted in the not too distant future as well, if you can't steal one already. https://www.bramanbmwjupiter.com/aut...r-fl/30547782/

Other than the door card situation, I can't think of much advantage to an M4 Comp over the CS as a daily driver through four seasons. You'll absolutely need a legit winter wheel + tire setup for both. Comp won't have a wintertime traction advantage. Both have adjustable dampers. Presumably the Comp has slightly more relaxed/softer EDC calibration, but neither will deliver a smooth ride around Philly, so that must not be a high priority for you.

Why is that car a one owner only 97miles? Seems like they did that in UK where they put demo miles on the CS cars and then were able to sell them for huge discounts. $24k of MSRP is about right.

[Throttleblip]

Yes you can daily the CS (sold my Zcp and bought a CS) . One thing I can add is that the CS suspension/ride is more comfortable in the CS than the ZCP.

Don't miss the center armrest, I use the seat side bolsters to rest my elbows.

I love how "special" the CS feels due to the door cards and loops. Yo do have to open the door with more care.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by IB M

Why is that car a one owner only 97miles? Seems like they did that in UK where they put demo miles on the CS cars and then were able to sell them for huge discounts. $24k of MSRP is about right.

Don't know, but unless those 97 miles were covered in an off-road rally I'd take the discount. Can't believe it's still available

[Seniorleb]

This is kinda strange question to be honest, anyhow you want a more comfortable daily driver and you are asking should you get the competition over the CS! .rts

My answer to you as most people will agree in the poll, competiton package with every single option and get all M performance parts and you wont regret it trust me!

[IB M]

Originally Posted by Seniorleb

This is kinda strange question to be honest, anyhow you want a more comfortable daily driver and you are asking should you get the competition over the CS! .rts

My answer to you as most people will agree in the poll, competiton package with every single option and get all M performance parts and you wont regret it trust me!

Agreed -


M3CS has same stereo as ZCP but doesn't M4CS have a base model stereo??

If so then for the stereo alone on a daily.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by IB M

Agreed -


M3CS has same stereo as ZCP but doesn't M4CS have a base model stereo??

If so then for the stereo alone on a daily.

Good point. A good stereo is critical. The HK system in these cars is just at the bottom edge of what I'd call a good stereo. Definitely couldn't handle the base system.

Originally Posted by Seniorleb

This is kinda strange question to be honest, anyhow you want a more comfortable daily driver and you are asking should you get the competition over the CS! .rts

My answer to you as most people will agree in the poll, competiton package with every single option and get all M performance parts and you wont regret it trust me!

This is where I start to disagree. Fully loaded cars are the worst performance value for the dollar. Once loaded you're approaching CS pricing. Also consider that these cars already come pretty stacked with options as standard, which means that fully loading a car has almost no impact on daily life over the base package. Heated seats, backup camera, HK sound, full power, etc., etc..... all standard.

I say go for a minimally optioned ZCP car in the mid-70s (high 60s after discounts). That's the bang for buck zone. ZCP, standard leather and DCT (if you're not a manual guy) are honestly the only meaningful options. Well, the Apple car play is pretty slick and a good value at $300.

OR... stretch a little and get the CS after hefty discount.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by IB M

Agreed -


M3CS has same stereo as ZCP but doesn't M4CS have a base model stereo??

If so then for the stereo alone on a daily.

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good point. A good stereo is critical. The HK system in these cars is just at the bottom edge of what I'd call a good stereo. Definitely couldn't handle the base system.

Very interrestingly, the stereo in the M4cs sounds very decent. I've always went for the more premium sound options in my previous cars, and for some reason, the sound system in my M4cs has not left me wanting the HK sound from my previous M4 one bit.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Well, the Apple car play is pretty slick and a good value at $300.

Apple Car Play is something to ponder IMO.

Our household is pretty well integrated with Apple products with multiple interconnected iPhones, iPods, iPads, iMacs and AirPlay multimedia around the whole house. So we are pretty fond of Apple products.

However, my M4cs came standard with Apple Car Play and after doodling with it, I chose to keep it disabled. I find the phone interface to be easier to access directly through iDrive which also allows to see the phone interface on the HUD. I find Car Play just too cumbersome to use and access.