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      09-16-2021, 12:31 PM   #1607
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My car is only summer driven (weekends) and I plan on 6-10 track days a season. I know that a big brake kit is overkill, but I do not want to have issues with warping discs after track days. I would probably be happy with just pads and fluid, and that was my plan, but if I have continued vibration issues, I want an alternative solution. After searching ďbrake vibrationĒ I seen that some people have replaced their discs multiple times only
to have the problem return.
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      09-16-2021, 12:33 PM   #1608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ben View Post
My car is only summer driven (weekends) and I plan on 6-10 track days a season. I know that a big brake kit is overkill, but I do not want to have issues with warping discs after track days. I would probably be happy with just pads and fluid, and that was my plan, but if I have continued vibration issues, I want an alternative solution. After searching "brake vibration" I seen that some people have replaced their discs multiple times only
to have the problem return.
If you go AP get the 9668 as the pads last a long time!

Alternatively, consider the BW Alcon kit. Any of the endurance sized pad options are excellent.
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      09-16-2021, 12:40 PM   #1609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
I don't use rattle kit and I don't notice any noise. Granted my car makes a lot of other clunks and noises already and it's not a street car. But I'll drive to / from track, shops, etc.

I think recovering anything more than 50% after track use even if only 8 days is a solid return.

Further, the rotors in your ad looked like they had some heat in them and it's a rear kit for which you were asking close to retail.

Lastly, your negative opinions of AP are well documented and likely didn't help in instilling confidence in buying your used kit.

I guess I'm suggesting I don't think yours was well positioned for a quick sale. ��
All comments regarding suitability of race bbks for cars that are primarily street driven is generic, I think I make that clarification every time.

For a mostly street driven car I would not use a race bbk even if you paid me. I have a free PFC front bbk sitting in my basement instead of on my street E92.
For a mostly street driven car, Girodiscs and pads are a really solid solution!

It was a rear kit, which is why I paid 4300 vs 6000. I do not keep quiet about my experience with them even if that means my kit doesn't sell, but those comments are pretty limited to threads comparing bbks.

In this thread, I have posted negative opinions on using a race bbk on a street car -something Essex does not recommend either- which are generic.
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      09-16-2021, 12:59 PM   #1610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
I don't use rattle kit and I don't notice any noise. Granted my car makes a lot of other clunks and noises already and it's not a street car. But I'll drive to / from track, shops, etc.

I think recovering anything more than 50% after track use even if only 8 days is a solid return.

Further, the rotors in your ad looked like they had some heat in them and it's a rear kit for which you were asking close to retail.

Lastly, your negative opinions of AP are well documented and likely didn't help in instilling confidence in buying your used kit.

I guess I'm suggesting I don't think yours was well positioned for a quick sale. ��
All comments regarding suitability of race bbks for cars that are primarily street driven is generic, I think I make that clarification every time.

For a mostly street driven car I would not use a race bbk even if you paid me. I have a free PFC front bbk sitting in my basement instead of on my street E92.
For a mostly street driven car, Girodiscs and pads are a really solid solution!

It was a rear kit, which is why I paid 4300 vs 6000. I do not keep quiet about my experience with them even if that means my kit doesn't sell, but those comments are pretty limited to threads comparing bbks.

In this thread, I have posted negative opinions on using a race bbk on a street car -something Essex does not recommend either- which are generic.
I'm not knocking you, or your comments. I appreciate the additional experiences. Just saying why it took forever to sell…

And I'm in full agreement regarding applicability for street cars.
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      09-16-2021, 01:01 PM   #1611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
All comments regarding suitability of race bbks for cars that are primarily street driven is generic, I think I make that clarification every time.

For a mostly street driven car I would not use a race bbk even if you paid me. I have a free PFC front bbk sitting in my basement instead of on my street E92.
For a mostly street driven car, Girodiscs and pads are a really solid solution!

It was a rear kit, which is why I paid 4300 vs 6000. I do not keep quiet about my experience with them even if that means my kit doesn't sell, but those comments are pretty limited to threads comparing bbks.

In this thread, I have posted negative opinions on using a race bbk on a street car -something Essex does not recommend either- which are generic.
Do you think the race bbk street driving issues are more due to the pad compound or the calipers/discs. I wonder if an ap kit with ds2500 pads would be better or worse than running 1;11 or 3:12 pads on stock brakes.
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      09-16-2021, 01:10 PM   #1612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ben View Post
Do you think the race bbk street driving issues are more due to the pad compound or the calipers/discs. I wonder if an ap kit with ds2500 pads would be better or worse than running 1;11 or 3:12 pads on stock brakes.
I don't think they're related to the type of pad. I used to run street pads on the race bbks when not racing, then stopped as the juice wasn't worth the squeeze

Race bbks have no dust boots and both the calipers and rotors have high amounts of slack/float. This is good for performance, but the "clanking' on a bumpy road can drive anyone insane.
Calipers and race pads do not have any clips that hold the pad in place like the stock pads have. Some kits like AP have optional clips, but they are not at all like the stock ones. (And shouldn't be, as it's a race bbk)
We've all heard the term 'floating rotor', but the amount of float varies wildly and so does the noise associated with them

Track pads on a street caliper may squeal, but squeal only happens when you brake. The clanking of pads/calipers/rotors happens whenever you hit a bump. Every time you hit the brakes the pad first 'floats' to its detent and clanks against it, then brakes.

AP has a much longer article explaining this stuff. I wish it were mostly a matter of just swapping pads.
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      09-16-2021, 01:12 PM   #1613
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They look good! Event next week and then hopefully two next month! Still slow as per the caliper paint but that's okay.
Update:

Noticeable difference! Seem to have to stomp on the brakes a bit more when street driving, but the stopping power and/or the resistance to fade is better on track. Used old pads to break them in, the pads were uneven from the old stock rotors, I think, and made some groves on the fresh new discs, but that's what the instructions said to do.

So far this seems a worthwhile upgrade even for novices like moi. Very good!
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      09-16-2021, 02:54 PM   #1614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I don't think they're related to the type of pad. I used to run street pads on the race bbks when not racing, then stopped as the juice wasn't worth the squeeze

Race bbks have no dust boots and both the calipers and rotors have high amounts of slack/float. This is good for performance, but the "clanking' on a bumpy road can drive anyone insane.
Calipers and race pads do not have any clips that hold the pad in place like the stock pads have. Some kits like AP have optional clips, but they are not at all like the stock ones. (And shouldn't be, as it's a race bbk)
We've all heard the term 'floating rotor', but the amount of float varies wildly and so does the noise associated with them

Track pads on a street caliper may squeal, but squeal only happens when you brake. The clanking of pads/calipers/rotors happens whenever you hit a bump. Every time you hit the brakes the pad first 'floats' to its detent and clanks against it, then brakes.

AP has a much longer article explaining this stuff. I wish it were mostly a matter of just swapping pads.
Maybe the best option for me would be stock calipers and aftermarket discs. Should be an improvement over stock and hopefully not have warping issues.
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      09-16-2021, 03:19 PM   #1615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ben View Post
Maybe the best option for me would be stock calipers and aftermarket discs. Should be an improvement over stock and hopefully not have warping issues.
I believe that's what swagon just did

Nice rotors with stock calipers are a worthwhile upgrade.

Look at cars that come with really nice brakes from the factory and that get tracked, like 991 GT3s: almost every single car on the paddock uses Giro rotors because their OEM rotors don't cut it
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      09-16-2021, 03:19 PM   #1616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ben View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I don't think they're related to the type of pad. I used to run street pads on the race bbks when not racing, then stopped as the juice wasn't worth the squeeze

Race bbks have no dust boots and both the calipers and rotors have high amounts of slack/float. This is good for performance, but the "clanking' on a bumpy road can drive anyone insane.
Calipers and race pads do not have any clips that hold the pad in place like the stock pads have. Some kits like AP have optional clips, but they are not at all like the stock ones. (And shouldn't be, as it's a race bbk)
We've all heard the term 'floating rotor', but the amount of float varies wildly and so does the noise associated with them

Track pads on a street caliper may squeal, but squeal only happens when you brake. The clanking of pads/calipers/rotors happens whenever you hit a bump. Every time you hit the brakes the pad first 'floats' to its detent and clanks against it, then brakes.

AP has a much longer article explaining this stuff. I wish it were mostly a matter of just swapping pads.
Maybe the best option for me would be stock calipers and aftermarket discs. Should be an improvement over stock and hopefully not have warping issues.
The Giro disks, track pads, titanium shims, SRF fluid, and SS lines would be huge improvement.
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      09-16-2021, 03:50 PM   #1617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
The Giro disks, track pads, titanium shims, SRF fluid, and SS lines would be huge improvement.
Where do you get the titanium shims?
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      09-16-2021, 04:13 PM   #1618
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Where do you get the titanium shims?
I never ended up buying a pair but EBAY was the spot. I remember not being able to find them at normal online stores.
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      09-16-2021, 04:30 PM   #1619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle ben View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
The Giro disks, track pads, titanium shims, SRF fluid, and SS lines would be huge improvement.
Where do you get the titanium shims?
I bought them from eBay from a Russian store. You'll have to hunt for those.
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      09-16-2021, 07:27 PM   #1620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The 'antirattle kit' does very very little.
The anti-rattle kit works very well for me. Zero rattle with them. Maybe you didn't tension the springs enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
I don't use rattle kit and I don't notice any noise.
Wow... Without the anti-rattle clips both sets of my Ferodos rattle around a lot in my AP kit. You can hear below:
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      09-16-2021, 08:39 PM   #1621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The 'antirattle kit' does very very little.
The anti-rattle kit works very well for me. Zero rattle with them. Maybe you didn't tension the springs enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
I don't use rattle kit and I don't notice any noise.
Wow... Without the anti-rattle clips both sets of my Ferodos rattle around a lot in my AP kit. You can hear below:

Yeah I don't get anything like that.

I just went and checked out of curiosity and my pads are always under tension. I couldn't jiggle them at all.

These have ~ 12 track days on them, obviously worn down a bit.
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      09-16-2021, 10:22 PM   #1622
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Yeah I don't get anything like that.

I just went and checked out of curiosity and my pads are always under tension. I couldn't jiggle them at all.

These have ~ 12 track days on them, obviously worn down a bit.
I find the rears rattle more than the fronts. My fronts are under a lot more tension from the pistons every time I swap pads back and forth than the rears.
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      09-16-2021, 10:27 PM   #1623
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Quote:
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Yeah I don't get anything like that.
I just went and checked out of curiosity and my pads are always under tension. I couldn't jiggle them at all.
This is my same experience. always under tension. Sometimes annoyingly.
I almost never hear them clank. It is generally when going slow and turning, say in a parking lot.
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      09-16-2021, 10:27 PM   #1624
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So thatís two people (farkle,drlane) with the Essex kit with no rattle. Does that mean they are fine for a daily?
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      09-16-2021, 10:35 PM   #1625
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So thatís two people (farkle,drlane) with the Essex kit with no rattle. Does that mean they are fine for a daily?
I'm going on 4 months with the 9660 kit on my daily/track/only car.
Ive been pretty happy with them. No complaints in daily department. (I dont recommend if you are not tracking a lot)
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      09-16-2021, 10:52 PM   #1626
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Quote:
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I'm going on 4 months with the 9660 kit on my daily/track/only car.
Ive been pretty happy with them. No complaints in daily department. (I dont recommend if you are not tracking a lot)
Why donít you recommend if you arenít tracking a lot?
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      09-16-2021, 11:27 PM   #1627
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Quote:
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Why don’t you recommend if you aren’t tracking a lot?
They cost a shit ton. Maybe money isnt a factor for you but if you dont track heavily you are spending tons of money on something you wont really be getting the full benefit from. OEM setup can go pretty far. AP gains pretty much nothing over the stock setup on any kinda extreme street driving you may do. Even heavy track work on oem setup is pretty solid.

I was nearing the point I had worn out the stock seals on the front from tracking. This is one of the advantages on the AP kit and partly why i got them. No seals. This can also be considered a downside for extreme weather conditions on a daily as it can get dirtier, saltier, and such. Whether that really is a factor is unknown. I live in cali so no crazy weather.

The other point id recommend starting to look at a bbk. Once your calipers start to turn green from tracking. At this stage you are probably going fast enough that the consistency and cost of a bbk will kick in and make sense.

Join the club dont want to stop you. They work great and are top tier. This is strictly from a frugal point of view. Are you fast enough on a track that $4-5k is worth dropping? It takes maaany track days to balance out the cost of them and the savings you get over time. The next best option if you are not serious is something like Giro discs. Just my 2 cents.
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      09-17-2021, 05:01 AM   #1628
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Track forum general chit chat

Do these seals keep debris out or brake fluid in?

What happens when the caliper seals wear out/fail? Catastrophic?

How do I know if my seals are toasted?
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