CSF intercooler vs EOS vs Forge

coldfish · 03-03-2019, 07:38 PM

Hi I am hesitating among CSF, EOS and Forge on cooling system upgrade for my F80 M3.

EOS pruduct is fully made in the U.S. and I can reach the owner by instagram easily. Small company.

CSF pruductis made overseas (somewhere in Asia, not in the U.S.). Big company and has been in the market for quite a long time.

Forge pruduct is probly made in the U.K. They just released the new products for F80 recently but have been in the market for a while.

I am leaning towards CSF now but wondering how good the quality control is considering that it is made overseas....

Any input would be much appreiciated !

M-Pilot · 03-03-2019, 08:31 PM

Aside from the function and quality, I'm also interested in if any of these alternatives provide any weight reduction compared to the stock unit. I know the CSF is heavier than the stock. Curious about the other two...

guess2098 · 03-03-2019, 08:36 PM

Forge top mount cooler has been out of stock for so long. Been watch that for few months already

tom @ eas · 03-03-2019, 08:44 PM

S55 is very good in stock form on many levels.

Just because there are aftermarket solutions doesn't make the OEM inferior, especially on a street-only vehicle. The OEM Heat exchanger is very efficient and no actual data has been released on any aftermarket offerings that I'm aware of to compare.

aBMWfan · 03-03-2019, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

S55 is very good in stock form on many levels.

Just because there are aftermarket solutions doesn't make the OEM inferior, especially on a street-only vehicle. The OEM Heat exchanger is very efficient and no actual data has been released on any aftermarket offerings that I'm aware of to compare.

Hey Tom, what upgrades do you think are worth it for a car that will visit the track a couple times a year? What do you thing it better than stock unit?

-Top Mount intercooler?
-Heat Exhanger?
-Transmission Cooler?

coldfish · 03-03-2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Aside from the function and quality, I'm also interested in if any of these alternatives provide any weight reduction compared to the stock unit. I know the CSF is heavier than the stock. Curious about the other two...

All three weigh abour the same, 15 lbs.

I called Forge for the information too. It is about 15 lbs.

coldfish · 03-03-2019, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

S55 is very good in stock form on many levels.

Just because there are aftermarket solutions doesn't make the OEM inferior, especially on a street-only vehicle. The OEM Heat exchanger is very efficient and no actual data has been released on any aftermarket offerings that I'm aware of to compare.

I want to replace OEM intercooler just as a precautionary method since OEM intercooler will fail sometimes.

I think some CSF product is also made in China.

avex8 · 03-03-2019, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

S55 is very good in stock form on many levels.

Just because there are aftermarket solutions doesn't make the OEM inferior, especially on a street-only vehicle. The OEM Heat exchanger is very efficient and no actual data has been released on any aftermarket offerings that I'm aware of to compare.

I want to replace OEM intercooler just as a precautionary method since OEM intercooler will fail sometimes.

I think some CSF product is also made in China.

I went with csf, it's life-time warranty so nothing to worry about.

CSF Cooling · 03-03-2019, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

Hi I am hesitating among CSF, EOS and Forge on cooling system upgrade for my F80 M3.

EOS pruduct is fully made in the U.S. and I can reach the owner by instagram easily. Small company.

CSF pruductis made overseas (somewhere in Asia, not in the U.S.). Big company and has been in the market for quite a long time.

Forge pruduct is probly made in the U.K. They just released the new products for F80 recently but have been in the market for a while.

I am leaning towards CSF now but wondering how good the quality control is considering that it is made overseas....

Any input would be much appreiciated !

I appreciate the consideration for our product:
Here are some details about the CSF product and answers to some of your questions.

- We've sold ~800 of these coolers over the past ~2.5 years, by the far the leader in sales with this specific product.
- Yes lifetime warranty
- Tier-1 OEM supplier - we have a joint venture in China for our intercooler / oil cooler production. This same factory is Tier-1 to GE for their windmill turbine cooling packages.
- Every cooler is assembled and checked in-house at our headquarters in California
- Painted or powder-coated locally in California before final assembly
- You can also reach me (the owner - Ravi) easily on instagram - @CSF_radiators
or just shoot me an email to ravidolwani@csfradiators.com
- We have many track users using our product with very good success - from Global Time Attack all the way to 25 hour endurance racing.

Let me know if you have any further questions.
more info on our entire F8x m3/m4 product line is at:
http://csfrace.com/bmw-radiator-splash

Shortyy · 03-04-2019, 05:39 AM

Someone with a PS2+ car ran back to back tests and logs on the dyno with OEM and CSF charge cooler. The CSF showed no benefits.

The guy now runs stock instead of his CSF.

Hope that helps.

domino_z · 03-04-2019, 07:47 AM

you'd think out of those ~800 csf sold over 2.5 years you'd at be able to get cooling data off at least 1 by now

domino_z · 03-04-2019, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyy

Someone with a PS2+ car ran back to back tests and logs on the dyno with OEM and CSF charge cooler. The CSF showed no benefits.

The guy now runs stock instead of his CSF.

Hope that helps.

JP actually lost power with the full 3 piece csf kit

coldfish · 03-04-2019, 09:11 AM

Great video.

All aftermarket intercoolers of S55 use bar and plate core instead of fin and tube. Bar and plate core will have more restriction on air flow so it makes sense it could lost some power on dyno run but it is more durable than fin and tube under high boost.

I hope JP can also measure the IAT and water temperature too. The main benefit of this kinda aftermarket intercooler is the longevity of power with better cooling capacity, not the peak power. It will make more sense to me to compare the water temperatureor IAT on dyno than peak power/torque. BUt still, it is weird that CSF has not posted any data after 2.5 years....

aBMWfan · 03-04-2019, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

Great video.

All aftermarket intercoolers of S55 use bar and plate core instead of fin and tube. Bar and plate core will have more restriction on air flow so it makes sense it could lost some power on dyno run but it is more durable than fin and tube under high boost.*

*I hope JP can also measure the IAT and water temperature too. The main benefit of this kinda aftermarket intercooler is the longevity of power with better cooling capacity, not the peak power. It will make more sense to me to compare the water temperatureor IAT on dyno than peak power/torque. BUt still, it is weird that CSF has not posted any data after 2.5 years....

In that case, I’m wondering which component creates more benefit, Intercooler or heat exchanger?

coldfish · 03-04-2019, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aBMWfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

Great video.

All aftermarket intercoolers of S55 use bar and plate core instead of fin and tube. Bar and plate core will have more restriction on air flow so it makes sense it could lost some power on dyno run but it is more durable than fin and tube under high boost.*

*I hope JP can also measure the IAT and water temperature too. The main benefit of this kinda aftermarket intercooler is the longevity of power with better cooling capacity, not the peak power. It will make more sense to me to compare the water temperatureor IAT on dyno than peak power/torque. BUt still, it is weird that CSF has not posted any data after 2.5 years....

In that case, I’m wondering which component creates more benefit, Intercooler or heat exchanger?

IMO, FMIC should have more benefit than intercooler upgrade.

The reason that I decide to replace the intercooler is because there is case of failure on OEM (coolant leaking). otherwise, I would not touch it. For me, Intercooler upgrade is more like a precautionary method. So I am not expecting any performance gain from it. I only hope I can have a product with great quality and last long time without potential failure.

behindthen0thing · 03-04-2019, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

IMO, FMIC should have more benefit than intercooler upgrade.

The reason that I decide to replace the intercooler is because there is case of failure on OEM (coolant leaking). otherwise, I would not touch it. For me, Intercooler upgrade is more like a precautionary method. So I am not expecting any performance gain from it. I only hope I can have a product with great quality and last long time without potential failure.

why not just wait until yours leaks then replace it.
It might never happen

aBMWfan · 03-04-2019, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

why not just wait until yours leaks then replace it.
It might never happen

I guess I’m trying to figure out how you see it failing?

Bmwlmr99 · 03-04-2019, 10:06 AM

I like my csf... racecar looks and function...runs super cool

Fast4d · 03-04-2019, 10:27 AM

which one is made by griffin?

I had a custom batch made to order griffin radiator 15 years ago. I had good luck with it but some had leaks from the oil cooler portion into the coolant side.

coldfish · 03-04-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast4d

which one is made by griffin?

I had a custom batch made to order griffin radiator 15 years ago. I had good luck with it but some had leaks from the oil cooler portion into the coolant side.

I think AWE cold front heat exchanger is engineered by Griffin.

coldfish · 03-04-2019, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldfish

IMO, FMIC should have more benefit than intercooler upgrade.

The reason that I decide to replace the intercooler is because there is case of failure on OEM (coolant leaking). otherwise, I would not touch it. For me, Intercooler upgrade is more like a precautionary method. So I am not expecting any performance gain from it. I only hope I can have a product with great quality and last long time without potential failure.

why not just wait until yours leaks then replace it.
It might never happen

I would rather replace it in advance than see it fail.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1570544

When we see it fail (error code comes up) , the issue probly has been there for a while, which means you have been burning coolant in your engine. You have to replace the sparke plugs and clean up your enigine. If it is a lease, I don't really care but I am going to keep it for a long time and need it to be in a good shape.

tom @ eas · 03-04-2019, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aBMWfan

Hey Tom, what upgrades do you think are worth it for a car that will visit the track a couple times a year? What do you thing it better than stock unit?

-Top Mount intercooler?
-Heat Exhanger?
-Transmission Cooler?

S55 already has excellent cooling abilities. No one has shown any data to show there's any area for improvement.

Depending on your track experience, brakes (pads/fluid) or suspension upgrades would be more beneficial.

03-03-2019, 07:38 PM	#1
coldfish First Lieutenant 76 Rep 322 Posts Drives: Alpine White 2018 M3 F80 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	CSF intercooler vs EOS vs Forge Hi I am hesitating among CSF, EOS and Forge on cooling system upgrade for my F80 M3. EOS pruduct is fully made in the U.S. and I can reach the owner by instagram easily. Small company. CSF pruductis made overseas (somewhere in Asia, not in the U.S.). Big company and has been in the market for quite a long time. Forge pruduct is probly made in the U.K. They just released the new products for F80 recently but have been in the market for a while. I am leaning towards CSF now but wondering how good the quality control is considering that it is made overseas.... Any input would be much appreiciated !
	Appreciate 1 unleashed79.00 Tweet Quote

03-03-2019, 08:31 PM	#2
M-Pilot Brigadier General 4859 Rep 3,659 Posts Drives: 981 Cayman GTS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW X5 [0.00] 2023 Toyota GR86 [0.00] 2016 Porsche Cayman ... [10.00]	Aside from the function and quality, I'm also interested in if any of these alternatives provide any weight reduction compared to the stock unit. I know the CSF is heavier than the stock. Curious about the other two...
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03-03-2019, 08:36 PM	#3
guess2098 Major 516 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: 2022 Taycan GTS, 2018 M4, 2016 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Rowland Heights, CA iTrader: (5)	Forge top mount cooler has been out of stock for so long. Been watch that for few months already
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03-03-2019, 08:44 PM	#4
tom @ eas BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 8158 Rep 18,821 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Anaheim, CA iTrader: (19) Garage List 2018 BMW i3s [0.00] 2010 BMW M3 [6.50] 2015 BMW M4 [5.25]	S55 is very good in stock form on many levels. Just because there are aftermarket solutions doesn't make the OEM inferior, especially on a street-only vehicle. The OEM Heat exchanger is very efficient and no actual data has been released on any aftermarket offerings that I'm aware of to compare. __________________ Tom G. \| european auto source (eas) email: tom@europeanautosource.com · web: https://europeanautosource.com· tel 866.669.0705 · ca: 714.369.8524 x22 GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG · FACEBOOK · YOUTUBE · FLICKR · INSTAGRAM
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03-04-2019, 05:39 AM	#10
Shortyy Private 28 Rep 50 Posts Drives: BMW M140i Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: England iTrader: (0)	Someone with a PS2+ car ran back to back tests and logs on the dyno with OEM and CSF charge cooler. The CSF showed no benefits. The guy now runs stock instead of his CSF. Hope that helps.
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03-04-2019, 07:47 AM	#11
domino_z Lieutenant Colonel 1240 Rep 1,972 Posts Drives: F-Pace SVR Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	you'd think out of those ~800 csf sold over 2.5 years you'd at be able to get cooling data off at least 1 by now Attached Images
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03-04-2019, 09:11 AM	#13
coldfish First Lieutenant 76 Rep 322 Posts Drives: Alpine White 2018 M3 F80 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	Great video. All aftermarket intercoolers of S55 use bar and plate core instead of fin and tube. Bar and plate core will have more restriction on air flow so it makes sense it could lost some power on dyno run but it is more durable than fin and tube under high boost. I hope JP can also measure the IAT and water temperature too. The main benefit of this kinda aftermarket intercooler is the longevity of power with better cooling capacity, not the peak power. It will make more sense to me to compare the water temperatureor IAT on dyno than peak power/torque. BUt still, it is weird that CSF has not posted any data after 2.5 years....
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03-04-2019, 10:06 AM	#18
Bmwlmr99 First Lieutenant 209 Rep 314 Posts Drives: Bmw m4 Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	I like my csf... racecar looks and function...runs super cool Attached Images
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03-04-2019, 10:27 AM	#19
Fast4d Captain 267 Rep 885 Posts Drives: 325 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: So cal iTrader: (0)	which one is made by griffin? I had a custom batch made to order griffin radiator 15 years ago. I had good luck with it but some had leaks from the oil cooler portion into the coolant side. __________________ SAFE-GUARD tire/wheel/windshield/paint protection is a FRAUD! do not waste your money!
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