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      09-28-2021, 11:17 AM   #1
fanofbmwe46
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Plan was to sell my 2015 F80 with 48k miles to Vroom for $43,500 (which is an incredible deal and $2k more than any other car buying service) and wait to buy a 2023 M2.

For the heck of it though, I asked a Subaru dealer if they would match Vroom's offer on my M3 toward a 2021 STI on their lot that's got an MSRP of $39K. So essentially would get money back after the trade. After a couple negotiation emails they said they will do it. Debating if I should actually go through with this….

This would mean the new plan would be to drive the STI for a year and put maybe 5K miles on it and then trade toward a 2023 M2. The STI I could drive all winter where as my M3 would just sit in the garage.

Anyone have experience with both? Do you think the STI would be fun?
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      09-28-2021, 11:40 AM   #2
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The STI is a fun car to whip around in but I certainly wouldnt take one over my F80. Cheap interior, fit and finish of stuff just isnt on par. Not to mention everyone wanting to race you at every red light you pull up to.

What have you done in the past with the M during winters? Why not just hold onto the car for an extra year and use the F80 to move onto the M2?
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      09-28-2021, 11:49 AM   #3
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Keeping an STi for only a year will likely result in significant depreciation. If you have another car for winter use, maybe just sell the M3 and wait for the M2? I would estimate how much you expect the STi value to drop and see if that's worth it to you.

Edit: I should note that my depreciation comment is assuming the insane covid used car prices don't remain a year from now.
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      09-28-2021, 11:51 AM   #4
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Don't do it.
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      09-28-2021, 12:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintsopoulos View Post
The STI is a fun car to whip around in but I certainly wouldnt take one over my F80. Cheap interior, fit and finish of stuff just isnt on par. Not to mention everyone wanting to race you at every red light you pull up to.
Iíll echo this. I had an Ď05 STI, and my wife had a 2012 STI. Both are quite a bit less refined in the areas mentioned by Mintsopolous. The interior is lifted directly from the normal Impreza (with a few small STI badged items), the stereos (at the time anyway, they may be better now - grain of salt!) were cheap and tinny, but to be honest, the worst part for me was the road noise. The tire and wind noise at highway speeds was brutal.

Provided the dealerships allow it (which they often do not), i would try to get a test drive in one - even a used one at a Carfax or similar? And see if the fit and finish is where you are expecting. I considered an STI instead of my M, but i kept coming back to how loud they were on the highway, and I just couldnít do it.

that being said, personal preferences etc.. they were both terrifically fun cars to drive in non-highway settings, and with snow tires theyíre basically unstoppable in the winter. ĎTry to land a test drive if possibleí would be my advice, ultimately.
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      09-28-2021, 12:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46 View Post
Plan was to sell my 2015 F80 with 48k miles to Vroom for $43,500 (which is an incredible deal and $2k more than any other car buying service).

For the heck of it I asked a Subaru dealer if they would match toward a 2021 STI on their lot that's got an MSRP of $39K. So essentially would get money back after the trade. After a couple negotiation emails they said they will do it. Debating if I should actually go through with thisÖ.

New plan would be to drive the STI hard for a year and put maybe 5K miles on it and then trade toward a 2023 M2. The STI I could drive all winter where as my M3 would just sit in the garage.

Anyone have experience with both? Do you think the STI would be fun?
Fun car, warranty, no hub issues, and for a finite time for you...and you get money from vroom! Yes, it is not an M car, but you have a plan to get an M2 so sound like a good plan to get there! Good luck!
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      09-28-2021, 01:42 PM   #7
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I own both - so maybe I have a pretty good understanding of the pros/cons of each since I alternate driving these cars weekly.

Personally, The STi is not on the same level of the M, never will be. The turbo / power delivery on the S55 is head and shoulders above the STi - even if I were to FBO / E85 tune I still wouldn't touch the S55 stock numbers. So if you love the power, you will miss it. The Stock STi feels slow as hell compared to the S55 and the lag / lack of torque contributes to it even worse.

With that said - daily driving in traffic the STi feels more fun because of the power delivery. I am constantly downshifting, constantly revving the car out just to get decent acceleration around town. On the S55 it could adequately accelerate in any gear even at low RPM due to the massive amount of torque, so downshifting and hearing the engine rev out were nearly unnecessary in normal driving. Now driving the STi with it's constant shifting may annoy some people, but I drive two 6MT cars in LA, personally I don't care about the shifting that would be deemed tedious by some. So really up to you how you feel.

MPG? The F8X gets better MPG than the STi - the STi gets piss poor mpg compared to its competitors as it's an ancient 20+ year platform at this point. However, the old turbo sounds and boost lag is fun - hard to explain until you drive it.

Some things I like about the STi are the hydraulic short ratio steering, the short spaced gearing allows for easy rev match downshifts, and the AWD gives some confidence in rainy days. AWD is pretty useless in SOCAL other than that. Since you mention winter AWD car, STi makes sense. I like the STi as it is a fun car with capable AWD for winters - but to swap a F8X for it is definitely a downgrade. If you are ultimately going to trade up for a M2 again, just keep the F8X IMO. The EJ257 isn't exactly a reliable motor to add power and beat on as well , so my STi is still bone stock with the free extended factory warranty from manufacturer on the engine up until 100,000 miles (Subaru basically acknowledged these motors were prone to issues with ring lands / bearings..)

A used STi makes more sense, as traditionally they held values extremely well.. do a quick google search and you'll see these cars don't really tank in value. Lucky for me I bought the STi in summer of 2020 and it has appreciated over 20% in value (vroom offer).
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      09-28-2021, 02:13 PM   #8
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OMG no....

I have had 4. The last one being a 2018. Which was the worst one of the bunch.

If you live anywhere where it gets above 40 degrees Fahrenheit, I would avoid them like the plague.

josh

PS This is coming from an Subaru ex-fan boy who helped start NASIOC, I-club, etc... I have owned 14 Subaru's....
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      09-28-2021, 02:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by spidy512 View Post
OMG no....

I have had 4. The last one being a 2018. Which was the worst one of the bunch.

If you live anywhere where it gets above 40 degrees Fahrenheit, I would avoid them like the plague.

josh

PS This is coming from an Subaru ex-fan boy who helped start NASIOC, I-club, etc... I have owned 14 Subaru's....
You should share, I live in a climate where we never get below 40 F.
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      09-28-2021, 02:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
You should share, I live in a climate where we never get below 40 F.
HAHA. I just noticed SoCal...

The ej257 has a detonation issue. LSPI being one of the worst I have seen in a car. The timing is constantly being pulled which makes for very inconsistent performance. The car would feel great on the way TO work in the morning. Then fell on its face on the drive home.

The top mount "intercooker" is a also something to behold, even when its not hot out. Yep, a nice front mount takes care if that, but then you have to go Stage 2, and lag becomes a real thing (go read some of the arguments about this. It is a funny read, and similar to our political climate today).

You will spend your life staring at a Cobb AP making sure your DAM is still at "one". Then you will have a heart attach every time it drops as you worry if your ring landings are toast.

Don't get me wrong, STi are very neat cars. But I am over Subaru. They are fantastic for folks looking for utility, performance and tons of plastic cladding.

josh
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      09-28-2021, 03:09 PM   #11
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*Flame suit on*

I sold my M3 in June of last year and ended up in a 2020 STI 6 months later. I live in Chicago.

The STI is nowhere near as quick as the M3, even tuned. The stock turbo has no top end, and is definitely optimized for mid range. In stock tune the torque curve is flat so it's the most pleasing power delivery, actually feels very N/A with the aggressive gearing. But it is not what I'd call quick. A $600 Cobb Accessport goes a long way in this case, just for a stage 1 tune.

However, as a street car, it's more fun than my M3 was. Never seeing the damn traction control light flashing is refreshing, and the speed you can carry through turns in all conditions is what makes it fun more of the time. Stock suspension is much better than my M3's was on imperfect roads, much better shock rebound and doesn't get unsettled the way the M3's rear always did. One down, one up, and carries on as it should.

I bought my STI as a bucket list experience of sorts (keeping it as long as I can), and I'm currently in the process of an upgraded turbo flex fuel build to give the car the top end it deserves.

However, for a 1 year car, I'd consider something a little more exciting. If I had 1 year to enjoy a car like the STI, it would be a Golf R or Civic Type R. You get way more speed for your buck and don't really need to care about long term reliability. The STI in my opinion is more of a long term car that you build to improve on the imperfections the car has. There's something about the STI's AWD stability in all conditions that I have yet to find in many cars I've owned prior, including my M3. People scoff at statements like this but on the street, it's not always a perfect road with perfect temps and conditions. In these cases the STI shines in my opinion. But for 1 year, I'd go with something a little more wild.
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      09-28-2021, 04:01 PM   #12
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Ringlands.

/thread
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      09-28-2021, 04:36 PM   #13
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Ringlands.

/thread
S54 - Vanos / Bearings
S65 - Bearings / Throttle Actuators
S55 - Crank hub

now we can
/thread

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      09-28-2021, 05:47 PM   #14
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      09-28-2021, 05:48 PM   #15
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Thanks all. Great comments and details. It seems STIs are holding value well so as a 1 yr car I would see very little depreciation.

Now I'm really conflicted because I reached out to a BMW dealer I have bought from in the past and they will also give me $43K trade in right now on my 2015 F80 and they will take $1K off a brand new G80 if I order one. I am super tempted. I kind of want to wait for the new 2023 M2… but maybe I jump on this trade in value and small discount on a G80 now. Heck a 2023 M2 might have a similar MSRP if we keep seeing high inflation.
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      09-28-2021, 09:07 PM   #16
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I'd go BMW.

Get an xDrive and call it good....

josh
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      09-29-2021, 07:49 AM   #17
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This is a joke, right?
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      09-29-2021, 08:34 AM   #18
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If it were me, I would look into a swapalease for short-term. I'm sure you can find a basic-b*tch 440i or 430i for $400/month.

Or consider a Volvo subscription service.
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      09-29-2021, 01:32 PM   #19
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Hard pass!
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      09-29-2021, 01:38 PM   #20
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The BMW/BMV is the Ultimate Driving Machine name for a reason.., personally its a step down to go to a STI...
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      09-29-2021, 04:13 PM   #21
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The STI is one of the all time most overrated cars in the history of automobiles. I owned one so Iím not talking out of my ass. They are just so underwhelming. The build quality is below average, the handling still isnít as good as old EVOís, and the EJ257 simply isnít a good engine. You have to be very aggressive to keep up with Accords and SUVís on the street and Cobb OTS maps are worthless unless you have high quality gasoline. I had to get mine pro tuned for 94 octane just to make it feel reasonably quick but then you have to live with the paranoia of cracked ring lands. The plus is that the 6-speed transmission is durable and replacement short blocks are cheap and plentiful because of the high volume of engine failures.
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      09-29-2021, 06:47 PM   #22
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To me itís 1-2 steps down to an STI. Would rather an Evo9 MR. Still a step down from an M3.
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