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      12-30-2014, 10:24 AM   #1
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Windshield Disclaimer: Installation and operation of non-BMW approved...

I never bothered to read this decal on the inside of my windshield because I thought it was just about the roadside assistance.

Reading through it looks like they are trying to cover their asses in the event you do anything other than place your ass in the seat and drive...

Wheels? Brake dust shields? Tires? Didn't expect those. I doubt they could void any part of your warranty for swapping wheels and tires...

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      12-30-2014, 12:48 PM   #2
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Well surprise surprise...you can't expect BMW to take responsibility if we as owners don't take personal responsibility for our actions...just saying. It's a CYA thing...more attorney speak...
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      12-30-2014, 01:06 PM   #3
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I just ripped that off and never read it. I try not to blame the car for my fuckups.
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      12-30-2014, 01:21 PM   #4
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I just ripped that off and never read it. I try not to blame the car for my fuckups.
Funny enough, in America at least, this is a defensible excuse in court. You know those parking passes that say shit like, "If we destroy your car, we're not liable"? Yeah, those won't hold up in court either.

Of course, IANAL, but this is something I learned in law classes in college.
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      12-30-2014, 01:28 PM   #5
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On the e92 it was a sticker about the break in procedure and not ripping it over certain speeds or rpms. Times have changed. Probably cause this engine is just "meh"
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      12-30-2014, 01:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dclowd9901 View Post
Funny enough, in America at least, this is a defensible excuse in court. You know those parking passes that say shit like, "If we destroy your car, we're not liable"? Yeah, those won't hold up in court either.

Of course, IANAL, but this is something I learned in law classes in college.
That sounds pretty sad. In my country when something happens, we are supposed to be adults, take responsibility, fix it and move on. Here it seems no one does that because admitting fault makes you the one paying for it, and moving on doesn't really happen. The cultural differences really slaps one in the form of stickers
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      12-30-2014, 01:55 PM   #7
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This seems similar to the days when someone would add a stereo to a new car, the engine dies, and the manufacturer would say the engine's warranty was voided when the stereo was installed by someone other than the dealer.

There is a case law on this, just cannot remember the name.

Using a phone inside the car may cause electrical damage?Puts a new meaning to "Ultimate Driving Experience."
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      12-30-2014, 01:57 PM   #8
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This seems similar to the days when someone would add a stereo to a new car, the engine dies, and the manufacturer would say the engine's warranty was voided when the stereo was installed by someone other than the dealer.

There is a case law on this, just cannot remember the name.

Using a phone inside the car may cause electrical damage?Puts a new meaning to "Ultimate Driving Experience."
Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act?

Here's the scoop straight from the FTC:

"Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?
No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

This was always my interpretation...that they could only void the warranty of a part specifically proven to be damaged by the aftermarket part. The rest of the warranty would have to remain in tact and they could not fault the part for unrelated warranty issues.

So that begs the question...if you put on aftermarket wheels or replace the tires with non OE tires (being extremely common) can they really prove that either of those items would cause damage to wheel bearings, brakes, suspension? That would be a tough sale I would think...

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      12-30-2014, 02:09 PM   #9
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Can't use my cell phone inside the car? That's nice to know.
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      12-30-2014, 02:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
I just ripped that off and never read it. I try not to blame the car for my fuckups.
Lol. I ripped that shit off without reading it as well. Same with the rear sticker on back side window.
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      12-30-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
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Lol. I ripped that shit off without reading it as well. Same with the rear sticker on back side window.
Yeah, I hadn't sat in mine even before the efficiency sticker was off. I'm pretty sure it was just extra weight, car is now more efficient!

Its a sad world if so much resources are used on meaningless stickers just so that lawyers won't suck us all dry. It would be easier just to send the whole lot to Siberia to fight with bears while we can use all the resources wasted on producing plastic stickers into fueling our cars. @myzmak gets to stay.
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      12-30-2014, 02:32 PM   #12
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Lawyers getting their hands on things.

Seriously though, they started putting this in cars at least 2 years ago. I see this sticker in all the rentals and when I took mine in for service a year or so ago they stuck it there. I removed it. Next service I notice they put one in the engine bay.
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      12-30-2014, 02:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
That sounds pretty sad. In my country when something happens, we are supposed to be adults, take responsibility, fix it and move on. Here it seems no one does that because admitting fault makes you the one paying for it, and moving on doesn't really happen. The cultural differences really slaps one in the form of stickers
Really... so you would be okay with BMW voiding your warranty because you used your cellphone in your car. I guess in your country being an adult means letting big international companies fuck you every which way they want. Real mature.
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      12-30-2014, 02:54 PM   #14
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Really... so you would be okay with BMW voiding your warranty because you used your cellphone in your car. I guess in your country being an adult means letting big international companies fuck you every which way they want. Real mature.
Yeah, that would fly in the EU.

I meant that here every way you can fuck this up must be listed so the fault lies with you, where as back home we look at the case in a wider way than stickers. It also means that when it is indeed my fault, I accept it and stop blaming others.

If it was up to me, I would indeed ban phones and lipsticks from cars.
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      12-30-2014, 03:29 PM   #15
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Ah, a thread like this warms my evil, cold heart......

Anyway, statute or not, it is all about causation. If they can prove your aftermarket product hurt their car, they don't have to cover that damage. That would be common in US, UK, EU, etc.

What is uniquely American is the need to put stupid warning labels up so that the car company can tell you 'if you fucked up this car, it is your fault, not ours' -- too many civil jury trials fucked upmthe common sense that would have otherwise prevailed.

(Not to say warning labels don't exist in other jurisdictions, the USA has just perfected the art of the stupid label. In other places, warnings just go up for more plausible risks/dangers)
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      12-30-2014, 03:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
That sounds pretty sad. In my country when something happens, we are supposed to be adults, take responsibility, fix it and move on. Here it seems no one does that because admitting fault makes you the one paying for it, and moving on doesn't really happen. The cultural differences really slaps one in the form of stickers
I think there's a lot more at play than simply responsibility.

The stickers are a symptom of a couple things: 1) The overwhelming costs of lawyers and 2) taking advantage of peoples' ignorance in order to keep law suits at bay. In my example, for instance, if you didn't know any better, and the valet came back with a dinged car, you might think, "Well, not much I can do about it, since it says right on my valet ticket that they're not responsible."

But the lawsuits themselves are also symptomatic of great big issues pertaining to the wealth gap, lawyers who will take on cases free of charge (because they know they can at least get an out-of-court settlement), and indeed, lawyers who dig up clients just to wage class action suits and line their pockets.

Make no mistake: the only ones winning here are the lawyers.
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      12-30-2014, 03:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dclowd9901 View Post
I think there's a lot more at play than simply responsibility.

The stickers are a symptom of a couple things: 1) The overwhelming costs of lawyers and 2) taking advantage of peoples' ignorance in order to keep law suits at bay. In my example, for instance, if you didn't know any better, and the valet came back with a dinged car, you might think, "Well, not much I can do about it, since it says right on my valet ticket that they're not responsible."

But the lawsuits themselves are also symptomatic of great big issues pertaining to the wealth gap, lawyers who will take on cases free of charge (because they know they can at least get an out-of-court settlement), and indeed, lawyers who dig up clients just to wage class action suits and line their pockets.

Make no mistake: the only ones winning here are the lawyers.
Bears I say. My brother looked well enough fed to be a decent meal to a few.
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      12-30-2014, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accel Junky View Post
So that begs the question...if you put on aftermarket wheels or replace the tires with non OE tires (being extremely common) can they really prove that either of those items would cause damage to wheel bearings, brakes, suspension? That would be a tough sale I would think...
Let's pick on wheels - if you use a size and/or offset that is other than stock. No testing has been done by the OEM to know the effects on the car. If you've got damaged bearings (for arguments sake). How easy is it going to be to convince the dealer that it wasn't the Aftermarket Wheel's fault. Even if the law says the burden of proof is on the Manufacturer. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be how it works.

Planned Maintenance items are a big one, filters, tires, brake pads, fluids etc. Again has it ever been tested? By whom? Of course a Fram Oil Filter didn't cause your strut to go bad. But if you've had an engine oil related failure with an aftermarket filter - good luck.

I can honestly say I used to work for an Industrial Engine manufacturer and there is 100% good oils and bad oils. If the OEM says use brand A I'm using it.
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      12-30-2014, 07:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DslDwg View Post
Let's pick on wheels - if you use a size and/or offset that is other than stock. No testing has been done by the OEM to know the effects on the car. If you've got damaged bearings (for arguments sake). How easy is it going to be to convince the dealer that it wasn't the Aftermarket Wheel's fault. Even if the law says the burden of proof is on the Manufacturer. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be how it works.

Planned Maintenance items are a big one, filters, tires, brake pads, fluids etc. Again has it ever been tested? By whom? Of course a Fram Oil Filter didn't cause your strut to go bad. But if you've had an engine oil related failure with an aftermarket filter - good luck.

I can honestly say I used to work for an Industrial Engine manufacturer and there is 100% good oils and bad oils. If the OEM says use brand A I'm using it.
I follow, indeed. I'm just saying those items are so commonly replaced by owners with other brands that I would be surprised that a precedent hasn't already been set for their immunity.

I have to assume manufacturers build the risks of commonly replaced items into their pricing. A tune voiding the engine warranty I totally understand (which is exactly why I'm doing everything I can to avoid the temptation) but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on the wheel/tires deal. Can't see them screwing anyone on that.
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      12-30-2014, 08:43 PM   #20
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I hope all you law-abiding citizens follow those recommended 15K mile oil change intervals and "lifetime" DCT fluids.
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      12-30-2014, 08:58 PM   #21
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I hope all you law-abiding citizens follow those recommended 15K mile oil change intervals and "lifetime" DCT fluids.
I spy a valid point
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      12-30-2014, 09:45 PM   #22
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I hope all you law-abiding citizens follow those recommended 15K mile oil change intervals and "lifetime" DCT fluids.
I'm changing mines every 5k miles.
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