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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 81 31.89%
Trump Trump-umphant. 87 34.25%
Inclusive 18 7.09%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 29.13%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 254. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-08-2019, 11:18 AM   #3939
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Joe Biden on Banking committee
Hunter gets job on Mastercard Board

Joe Biden on Transportation committee
Hunter gets job on AMTRAK Board

Joe Biden Ukraine Point Man
Hunter gets job on Burisma Board

Joe Biden Point Man in China
Hunter forms investments with Chinese Government Bank.
Up until 2015 Ukraine gave more money than any other country to the CLINTON PAY FOR PLAY FOUNDATION.
Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney all have children working for Ukrainian gas companies.

Russia donated $0.00 to the Trump campaign. Russia donated $145,600,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

Trump was the one investigated! Dems: Trump is the Con Man!


We need 4 more Years for Trump to drain the Swamp!
This is exactly how Russia influences our politics. Certain people will literally believe anything they see on Facebook. Russia did NOT donate $145M to the Clinton Foundation.
Instagram convinced him to vote for Putin!
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      12-08-2019, 12:01 PM   #3940
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I get that Trump represents a very much desired change in attitudes for a lot of the folks who voted for him. But besides the tax cut, which was a cinch due to him owning both houses of Congress at the time, what has Trump really accomplished? I'm obviously not a fan of the guy as a human being, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt as an executive, that perhaps he could accomplish things. From my perspective I haven't seen that happening.

The Wall, The Wall, The Wall. He spent a lot of political capital there. My understanding is that what we got is being cut through fairly easily by folks to the south. I don't see a win there. Trump wants his base to think it's a win, but is it really?

Repeal Obamacare. Uh no. Not even with both houses of Congress in his pocket. Trump would like very much if that were completely off the front pages, and it is. For now.

He went hard on North Korea early on, I assume to show the world his mad diplo skillz, and yet they're still hurling missiles and conducting rocket engine tests. That looks like a net zero to me.

He targeted NAFTA as a terrible deal and yet the deal he replaced it with is essentially identical, according to folks who know a lot more about it than me anyway.

The China stuff -- my honest opinion there is that it may have started out as a legitimate attempt to shift some balances, but now it has devolved into a campaign strategy and stock market ploy (drive prices up/down and profit on the swings) for his Wall Street buds. The Chinese are shrewd, very experienced, negotiators, and they have a great deal of leverage to work with. Dare I say the Great Dealmaker met his match?

The fact that he reneges on his own deals is another thing that would really bug the crap out of me, had I voted for Trump because I felt he could effect real change.

Supporters will point to the economy. That's a tossup to me as well. The job numbers and stock market have been going well, but how much of that can a president really take credit for? I would give Trump credit for giving a subset of folks confidence in the economy such that they made bets in a certain direction. On the other hand we're bailing out all of the farmers whose livelihoods he's wiped out in the trade wars. Then there's the record deficit.
So at the end of the day for me it's kind of a wash.

One of the things I have been hoping to see for past 2 administrations is a serious piece of legislation to bolster our infrastructure; electric, data, roadways. Trump made small noises about it but I haven't seen the big move that the country still needs.

Blah blah blah. The gist of it is that when I try to objectively measure the effectiveness of Donald Trump's presidency, he comes up pretty short. If I had voted for him because I wanted to see change, I'd be looking at whoever the Dems send up against him. Unless it's Liz or Bernie!
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      12-08-2019, 12:22 PM   #3941
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Sure a Billionaire who never ran for office and picked up politics as a hobby, beats career politicians like Obama and crooked Hillary and outsmarted the whole establishment yet you believe he's an idiot.
What's your biggest accomplishment before you start calling the Commander 8n Chief, an idiot?
I'm not calling him an idiot, much of his own staff is. He ran a smart campaign targeted at people who aren't. He nailed it.

Also, he did not beat Obama.
Are you calling blue collar America dumb? Bold to say the least. By the way, he beat Obama - peel back the onion or ask someone with a blue collar in to help explain....
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      12-08-2019, 01:06 PM   #3942
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Are you calling blue collar America dumb? Bold to say the least. By the way, he beat Obama - peel back the onion or ask someone with a blue collar in to help explain....
Obama hasn't been on a ballot since 2012.

I'm not calling anyone dumb. I heard it right from the RNC chair. He aimed his campaign at disenfranchised people with lower education - that's a fact - purposely using very basic vocabulary (elementary school level). Supporters ate it right up. How many times did you hear "he speaks like me?" He was pandering the exact same way the democrats are often accused of doing to minorities. I would be offended too.
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      12-08-2019, 01:15 PM   #3943
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One of the things I have been hoping to see for past 2 administrations is a serious piece of legislation to bolster our infrastructure; electric, data, roadways. Trump made small noises about it but I haven't seen the big move that the country still needs.
Yeah, I have to roll my eyes every time I hear him talk about how much he's "for infrastructure." He essentially killed the much needed hudson river tunnel between NYC and NJ. It's a been a top infrastructure priority for years and the Trump administration reneged on the deal to fund half of it. Millions of Americans are affected by it but the project involves two states that did not vote for him so... dead. I guess he forgot that he's the president of ALL states, not just the ones who like him.
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      12-08-2019, 02:10 PM   #3944
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
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Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
OMG!!!!!!!
How stupid can Trump be?
(That question may be a bottomless hole)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...53e_story.html
Have a copy/paste for what is behind the pay wall?
So you're justifying the Giuliani stay in Ukraine? You don't think it would've been smart for him to come home and lay low?
lighten up a little, there, CB. I just wanted to read the article that is behind WaPo pay wall.
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      12-08-2019, 02:25 PM   #3945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
OMG!!!!!!!
How stupid can Trump be?
(That question may be a bottomless hole)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...53e_story.html
Have a copy/paste for what is behind the pay wall?
So you're justifying the Giuliani stay in Ukraine? You don't think it would've been smart for him to come home and lay low?
lighten up a little, there, CB. I just wanted to read the article that is behind WaPo pay wall.
Sorry. You get three for free looks a month, without paying. There's also an occasional free article in Apple news or the Edge Browser start page. Typically I read it at the office, we get a paper copy.
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      12-08-2019, 03:16 PM   #3946
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Sorry. You get three for free looks a month, without paying. There's also an occasional free article in Apple news or the Edge Browser start page. Typically I read it at the office, we get a paper copy.
Fair enough. I guess I have used 'em up this month.
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      12-08-2019, 03:42 PM   #3947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Sorry. You get three for free looks a month, without paying. There's also an occasional free article in Apple news or the Edge Browser start page. Typically I read it at the office, we get a paper copy.
Fair enough. I guess I have used 'em up this month.
President Trump said his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani planned to issue a report to the Justice Department and Congress detailing what he'd learned from his investigations in Ukraine.
Trump claimed not to know what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine this week or what he found out while there, but he asserted that Giuliani says "he has a lot of good information."
"He's going to make a report, I think to the attorney general and to Congress," Trump told reporters Saturday outside the White House. "He says he has a lot of good information. I have not spoken to him about that information yet."
"I hear he has found plenty," Trump added.
As impeachment tide swirls around Trump, Giuliani drops anchor in Ukraine

During Giuliani's trip to Ukraine, the country at the center of the impeachment inquiry against Trump, the former New York mayor met with Ukrainians who have peddled unsubstantiated allegations of misdeeds by former vice president Joe Biden in Ukraine and claims that Ukraine, not Russia, interfered in the 2016 election.


While in Kyiv, Giuliani tweeted that he had "compelling evidence of criminal conduct" by Biden. He also suggested that until a corruption probe in Ukraine is resolved, "it will be a major obstacle to the U.S. assisting Ukraine with its anti-corruption reforms."
The crux of the impeachment probe is whether Trump withheld military assistance to Ukraine to pressure the government to launch a public investigation into a possible political foe. Career State Department officials have testified that Giuliani was operating a shadow foreign policy in Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden, his son Hunter and the Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma, where Hunter Biden held a seat on the board.
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      12-08-2019, 03:57 PM   #3948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
President Trump said his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani planned to issue a report to the Justice Department and Congress detailing what he'd learned from his investigations in Ukraine.
Trump claimed not to know what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine this week or what he found out while there, but he asserted that Giuliani says "he has a lot of good information."
"He's going to make a report, I think to the attorney general and to Congress," Trump told reporters Saturday outside the White House. "He says he has a lot of good information. I have not spoken to him about that information yet."
"I hear he has found plenty," Trump added.
As impeachment tide swirls around Trump, Giuliani drops anchor in Ukraine

During Giuliani's trip to Ukraine, the country at the center of the impeachment inquiry against Trump, the former New York mayor met with Ukrainians who have peddled unsubstantiated allegations of misdeeds by former vice president Joe Biden in Ukraine and claims that Ukraine, not Russia, interfered in the 2016 election.


While in Kyiv, Giuliani tweeted that he had "compelling evidence of criminal conduct" by Biden. He also suggested that until a corruption probe in Ukraine is resolved, "it will be a major obstacle to the U.S. assisting Ukraine with its anti-corruption reforms."
The crux of the impeachment probe is whether Trump withheld military assistance to Ukraine to pressure the government to launch a public investigation into a possible political foe. Career State Department officials have testified that Giuliani was operating a shadow foreign policy in Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden, his son Hunter and the Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma, where Hunter Biden held a seat on the board.
Thank you very much, I appreciate the effort!

To answer your previous question, yes, certainly bad optics that he is in Ukraine. Don't know that he should have come back to the states though, and especially stay out of the limelight. If I was him, probably would have found some deserted island in the South Pacific and been done. Is there a how long before Rudy "slips" poll up anywhere?
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      12-08-2019, 04:09 PM   #3949
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Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
President Trump said his personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani planned to issue a report to the Justice Department and Congress detailing what he'd learned from his investigations in Ukraine.
Trump claimed not to know what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine this week or what he found out while there, but he asserted that Giuliani says "he has a lot of good information."
"He's going to make a report, I think to the attorney general and to Congress," Trump told reporters Saturday outside the White House. "He says he has a lot of good information. I have not spoken to him about that information yet."
"I hear he has found plenty," Trump added.
As impeachment tide swirls around Trump, Giuliani drops anchor in Ukraine

During Giuliani's trip to Ukraine, the country at the center of the impeachment inquiry against Trump, the former New York mayor met with Ukrainians who have peddled unsubstantiated allegations of misdeeds by former vice president Joe Biden in Ukraine and claims that Ukraine, not Russia, interfered in the 2016 election.


While in Kyiv, Giuliani tweeted that he had "compelling evidence of criminal conduct" by Biden. He also suggested that until a corruption probe in Ukraine is resolved, "it will be a major obstacle to the U.S. assisting Ukraine with its anti-corruption reforms."
The crux of the impeachment probe is whether Trump withheld military assistance to Ukraine to pressure the government to launch a public investigation into a possible political foe. Career State Department officials have testified that Giuliani was operating a shadow foreign policy in Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden, his son Hunter and the Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma, where Hunter Biden held a seat on the board.
Thank you very much, I appreciate the effort!

To answer your previous question, yes, certainly bad optics that he is in Ukraine. Don't know that he should have come back to the states though, and especially stay out of the limelight. If I was him, probably would have found some deserted island in the South Pacific and been done. Is there a how long before Rudy "slips" poll up anywhere?
There's no way Giuliani does not screw up as a witness in the Senate trial.
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      12-08-2019, 04:16 PM   #3950
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There's no way Giuliani does not screw up as a witness in the Senate trial.
Yep, hence my question.
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      12-08-2019, 06:44 PM   #3951
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Yeah, I have to roll my eyes every time I hear him talk about how much he's "for infrastructure." He essentially killed the much needed hudson river tunnel between NYC and NJ. It's a been a top infrastructure priority for years and the Trump administration reneged on the deal to fund half of it. Millions of Americans are affected by it but the project involves two states that did not vote for him so... dead. I guess he forgot that he's the president of ALL states, not just the ones who like him.
I admit that I don't know anything about this subject, but just reading what you wrote, I question why we all need to pay for a tunnel in NY? That is a state need not a federal need.
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      12-08-2019, 07:06 PM   #3952
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I admit that I don't know anything about this subject, but just reading what you wrote, I question why we all need to pay for a tunnel in NY? That is a state need not a federal need.
The same reason an entire apartment building pays for a new roof, despite it only directly affecting the penthouses. This project (the "gateway program") was supposed to be half federally funded with the states covering the other half. Where do you draw the line between state funded and federally funded anyway?
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      12-08-2019, 07:39 PM   #3953
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Actually your narrative is false. The FBI investigation into Carter Page had absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine (Barr has looked into it and the IG agreed that the FISA was warranted). He has been pro-Kremlin for two decades and, by the admission of his own former colleagues, a VERY strange pick for a foreign policy advisor for that exact reason.

The only ones pushing Ukraine being involved are the Russians as a method of deflection.
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      12-08-2019, 08:03 PM   #3954
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The same reason an entire apartment building pays for a new roof, despite it only directly affecting the penthouses. This project (the "gateway program") was supposed to be half federally funded with the states covering the other half. Where do you draw the line between state funded and federally funded anyway?
If the top floor floods the complex would most likely collapse.

The states already have a federal budget for transportation. I couldn't care less about Trump in this situation, I agree that this was probably political for him. But I don't understand why this project warrants federal money on its own. It doesn't affect enough people.
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      12-08-2019, 08:43 PM   #3955
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If the top floor floods the complex would most likely collapse.
That's a stretch...
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      12-08-2019, 08:46 PM   #3956
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That's a stretch...
You are underestimating the weight of water.
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      12-08-2019, 08:50 PM   #3957
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You are underestimating the weight of water.
I don't think so. You are underestimating the structural integrity of a building, and the amount of water that it would take to topple a building. How much rain are you expecting? Noah proportions? If not, then that's a stretch.
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      12-08-2019, 08:53 PM   #3958
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Agreed they aren't gonna fill every upper floor room like a pool and have people swimming around
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      12-08-2019, 09:00 PM   #3959
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I don't think so. You are underestimating the structural integrity of a building, and the amount of water that it would take to topple a building. How much rain are you expecting? Noah proportions? If not, then that's a stretch.
Flat roofs collapse all the time when their drainage gets clogged and it can't support the weight of the water. If this happend in an apartment complex, don't see why the floors below wouldn't keep failing.

That being said buildings are built differently depending on geographic location and climate. Here they are built out of wood unless they are higher than 5 stories. A steel and concrete building would hold up much better than a wood building, but it could still very much effect the units on lower levels. Stating a roof only helps the top floor is very naive.
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      12-08-2019, 09:03 PM   #3960
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Flat roofs collapse all the time when their drainage gets clogged and it can't support the weight of the water. If this happend in an apartment complex, don't see why the floors below wouldn't keep failing.

That being said buildings are built differently depending on geographic location and climate. Here they are built out of wood unless they are higher than 5 stories. A steel and concrete building would hold up much better than a wood building, but it could still very much effect the units on lower levels. Stating a roof only helps the top floor is very naive.
OK.
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