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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 81 31.89%
Trump Trump-umphant. 87 34.25%
Inclusive 18 7.09%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 29.13%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 254. You may not vote on this poll

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      12-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #4049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Look - we are going to disagree on this subject.

To call into question my loyalty to the view of what America should be, however, is just sad.

How many bomb fragments do you have in your body protecting this country? Because I have several. In fact, my worst injury came subsequent to my military service when I worked for the government in another capacity, so I'd appreciate you forgoing the lectures.

That said - the 'too big to fail' argument and comparing it to the apocalyptic wasteland of the Terminator movies is absolutely ridiculous. By that account, when Eastern Airlines, Pan Am, Standard Oil, Enron, and PaineWebber all ceased operations - the economy should have collapsed - since all were of comparable size and scope to the companies you describe.
I genuinely appreciate your service. That's not BS. However I remain surprised by how resistant you are to looking out for the country as a whole.

Eastern employed 18k
PanAm 22k
Standard Oil was broken up, many of which still exist and have thrived
Enron had 5k but many businesses were sold off
PaineWebber was purchased by UBS

The big three automakers (in 2008) directly employed 240k with direct suppliers employing over 730k, dwarfing the numbers above. It would have massively impacted our country.

The US actually made a profit of several hundred billion, making it a pretty damn good investment on behalf of the US taxpayer. But you would rather have seen them fail. It's just an odd point of view if you want what's best for the country.

Would you rather have had China come in a buy our US car companies or financial institutions? That's what happened to many other automakers around the globe.
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      12-09-2019, 04:57 PM   #4050
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Back on topic, maybe setup an interstate topic seperate from here

If it clearly a crime why all the underhand tactics?



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      12-09-2019, 04:58 PM   #4051
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Thread jack.....been a long time since Iíve seen eastern airlines get a mention. My parents flew for them.
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      12-09-2019, 05:08 PM   #4052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Back on topic, maybe setup an interstate topic seperate from here

If it clearly a crime why all the underhand tactics?

[url]https:/
https://yocl1lddo
When you get your news off Blaze TV, something is seriously wrong.

Gaetz, Nunes, Jordan, Ratcliffe, etc. couldn't hack it as actors, so they became freedom caucus types members? The feigned outrage is silly.
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      12-09-2019, 05:11 PM   #4053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I genuinely appreciate your service. That's not BS. However I remain surprised by how resistant you are to looking out for the country as a whole.

Eastern employed 18k
PanAm 22k
Standard Oil was broken up, many of which still exist and have thrived
Enron had 5k but many businesses were sold off
PaineWebber was purchased by UBS

The big three automakers (in 2008) directly employed 240k with direct suppliers employing over 730k, dwarfing the numbers above. It would have massively impacted our country.

The US actually made a profit of several hundred billion, making it a pretty damn good investment on behalf of the US taxpayer. But you would rather have seen them fail. It's just an odd point of view if you want what's best for the country.

Would you rather have had China come in a buy our US car companies or financial institutions? That's what happened to many other automakers around the globe.
Enron employed 21,000 people, not 5,000.

Ford didn't take a bailout.

Who's to say another car company - even Ford - wouldn't buy them if they had failed?

It is NOT the governments' job to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.
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      12-09-2019, 05:13 PM   #4054
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      12-09-2019, 05:18 PM   #4055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Enron employed 21,000 people, not 5,000.

Ford didn't take a bailout.

Who's to say another car company - even Ford - wouldn't buy them if they had failed?

It is NOT the governments' job to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.
We're all losers if our domestic industries fail and Ford was in no position to purchase another car company in 2008. They were offloading their own assets to stave off their own demise.
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      12-09-2019, 05:30 PM   #4056
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
As much as I try to adhere to minimal government principles, I see examples where government has provided something that didn't/wouldn't otherwise exist and is of obvious ongoing common benefit. Spent the weekend in Chicago, and the public transportation is so far advanced from the Twin Cities of Minnesota. Ditto for Munich, where I was in October. Fantastic public transportation for all to use - and everyone uses it. Unlike so many boondoggle public transportation systems I've seen in the US that cost billions of dollars but are used by thousands of people.
It sucks GM bought up the street cars and then ripped them up etc around here as we might of had a very nice system. Now we (State/Twin Cities/Federal Gov) are spending billions to replace that and then some with a decidedly subpar one IMO.
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      12-09-2019, 05:32 PM   #4057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
We're all losers if our government determines which domestic industries fail and which succeed.
FTFY
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      12-09-2019, 05:36 PM   #4058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Enron employed 21,000 people, not 5,000.

Ford didn't take a bailout.

Who's to say another car company - even Ford - wouldn't buy them if they had failed?

It is NOT the governments' job to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
We're all losers if our domestic industries fail and Ford was in no position to purchase another car company in 2008. They were offloading their own assets to stave off their own demise.
I'm a hypocrite on this subject as I hate it when the government bails anyone out whether they made money or not. Interesting though a lot of the investors still lost, but the government and those at the top that made the shittiest decisions were made just about whole again.

I really don't like it when the government picks winners and losers and think they should of let GM fail etc. I do think somebody would've bought the remnants and picked up where they left off and maybe ran it better. At least selfishly for my tax dollars, I got a ZL1 1LE put of GM surviving so there is that. Kidding aside I also see why it is necessary if when they do bail some out. Especially to counter act foreign countries that subsidize their big industries. Globally it isn't a level playing field and never will be of course.

Oh yes, back to impeachment, both sides still mad. Trump will be impeached in the House and found not guilty in the Senate. There I didn't totally thread jack.
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      12-09-2019, 05:40 PM   #4059
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So let them all fail instead of tossing them a lifeline?

Clearly we have different philosophies here and I didn't intend to completely derail this thread so I'm throwing in the towel on this one.
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      12-09-2019, 05:42 PM   #4060
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Oh yes, back to impeachment, both sides still mad. Trump will be impeached in the House and found not guilty in the Senate. There I didn't totally thread jack.
Yep. That's where I see this going as well.
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      12-09-2019, 05:45 PM   #4061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
So let them all fail instead of tossing them a lifeline?

Clearly we have different philosophies here and I didn't intend to completely derail this thread so I'm throwing in the towel on this one.
I support the bail out of GM, but are their union workers making any less money because of it? Was general motors made any more competitive?

I definitely understand the argument against.
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      12-09-2019, 05:49 PM   #4062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
So let them all fail instead of tossing them a lifeline?

Clearly we have different philosophies here and I didn't intend to completely derail this thread so I'm throwing in the towel on this one.
Like I said, I'm seriously conflicted/hypocritical on it. In a perfect world I would let them fail. But, I realize this is far from it and global economic decisions factor into this as well. I do feel for Ford/GM when countries like Germany subsidize their auto industry so heavily. It's gotta make it hard to compete. But, shitty decisions coupled with shitty products for years means you should go out of business to.

Back to impeachment
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      12-09-2019, 05:51 PM   #4063
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I said this during the Mueller investigation and this impeachment is no different. Our constitution protects the Potus against such coup! They wanted Trump impeached since day one.


Trump 2020
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      12-09-2019, 05:53 PM   #4064
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I said this during the Mueller investigation, this impeachment is no different. Our constitution protects the Potus against such coup!


Trump 2020
otherwise you are just
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      12-09-2019, 06:00 PM   #4065
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It seems as if the GM "bailout" produced good results and all made money. So, we have a happy ending.However Ford, which did not participate is now in trouble-or at least I hear they are.

Both companies industry icons and a major part of our ability to ramp up manufacturing during times of war. Ford made lots of airplanes-bombers and GM made lots of tanks, etc. during the last world war. These companies are needed for our national security and i vote that it was important to try to help them out.
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      12-09-2019, 06:01 PM   #4066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I said this during the Mueller investigation and this impeachment is no different. Our constitution protects the Potus against such coup! They wanted Trump impeached since day one.


Trump 2020
Which is why they all said it publicly. MAGA

I will make more money this year than ever before in renewables and it has nothing to do with incentives it has to do with the economy doing amazing and people having money to spend.
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      12-09-2019, 06:09 PM   #4067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I said this during the Mueller investigation and this impeachment is no different. Our constitution protects the Potus against such coup! They wanted Trump impeached since day one.


Trump 2020

Holding the president accountable for his actions is not a coup attempt.
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      12-09-2019, 06:14 PM   #4068
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Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I said this during the Mueller investigation and this impeachment is no different. Our constitution protects the Potus against such coup! They wanted Trump impeached since day one.


Trump 2020
Which is why they all said it publicly. MAGA

I will make more money this year than ever before in renewables and it has nothing to do with incentives it has to do with the economy doing amazing and people having money to spend.
I choose the rule of law over $$$.
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      12-09-2019, 06:50 PM   #4069
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Quote:
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Why shouldn't the federal government be involved in any infrastructure project? We wouldn't have a interstate highway system if everything were left up to the states. In my opinion, a cohesive infrastructure makes more sense than a fractured one.
just catching up now so not sure if its been discussed, but typically now, most interstate highway projects are funded by state and local gov 1st and feds supplement it. and its rarely 50/50 state-local/gov funding. At least in colorado where i have the most experience with it. This I-25 shit we are dealing with up in NOCO is majority funded by the state and local governments.

in other infrastructure, electric is typically majority funded by private/local with little gov funding outside of "green energy" subsidies and the water side is mainly state/local with some EPA funding sprinkled in. But that is typically State Revolving Funds supplemented by the feds.
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      12-09-2019, 06:54 PM   #4070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
When you get your news off Blaze TV, something is seriously wrong.

Gaetz, Nunes, Jordan, Ratcliffe, etc. couldn't hack it as actors, so they became freedom caucus types members? The feigned outrage is silly.
As always what did they state is false? Why must you always resort to character assassination.
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