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      04-28-2014, 11:13 PM   #45
tlp
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This makes sense. I instantly wondered how a consumer could review a car before a journalist had a go. BMW has been carefully controlling the story and info delivery since the beginning. This was not how the coach (BMW) drew it up.
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      04-29-2014, 06:19 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Is it an unbiased review though?

The top automotive journalists (Chris Harris) drive the best of everything. And they didn't just pay tens of thousands of $$ on the car they're reviewing.

Just adding some perspective.
First off, Chris himself said that those junkets and setups influence his reviews and he only flipped out because of the ridiculous levels of controls Ferrari was putting on him. To indicate that the majority of the press gives unbiased reviews is....wrong?

Second, for your consideration: We aren't getting a review here. We're getting a stream-of-consciousness rambling of the immediate ownership experience. This is an important difference.

Third, I don't know about you but I read about 2-3 reviews per year - among all outlets - that are actually informative to the way the car drives.

...

There is still a place for reviews, especially instrumented ones. There's still a place for consumer reports too.

But "first drives" where 50 journalists are flown to spain, fed tapas, listen to hours of lectures, and then get handed keys among pristine driving roads with all sorts of BMW (or other brand) paraphernalia thrown at them....those reviews are initial impressions only and typically the most useless of reviews on top of that - with the most spending by the manufacturer. No thanks.
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      04-29-2014, 11:36 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
First off, Chris himself said that those junkets and setups influence his reviews and he only flipped out because of the ridiculous levels of controls Ferrari was putting on him. To indicate that the majority of the press gives unbiased reviews is....wrong?

Second, for your consideration: We aren't getting a review here. We're getting a stream-of-consciousness rambling of the immediate ownership experience. This is an important difference.

Third, I don't know about you but I read about 2-3 reviews per year - among all outlets - that are actually informative to the way the car drives.

...

There is still a place for reviews, especially instrumented ones. There's still a place for consumer reports too.

But "first drives" where 50 journalists are flown to spain, fed tapas, listen to hours of lectures, and then get handed keys among pristine driving roads with all sorts of BMW (or other brand) paraphernalia thrown at them....those reviews are initial impressions only and typically the most useless of reviews on top of that - with the most spending by the manufacturer. No thanks.
How did you conclude all of that from my few sentences? Oh you had the help of putting words in my mouth. Or in my post, rather.

First of all, I can't find where I said (nor indicated) that all auto journalist reviews were completely unbiased. There are a few sources out there I trust. And I referenced one of them.

Second, I wasn't the one that implied that a member's impressions constituted a review in the formal sense of the word. I was responding to another member's post. I should have put review in quotation marks (i.e., "review") to communicate that point more effectively.

That was my main point actually - that a member's thoughts after delivery are far from a structured, supposedly "neutral" review. But I didn't say that these impressions weren't useful or welcome either.

And finally, I strongly (but respectfully) disagree with your last point too.

Again, because these guys (i.e., auto journalists) are used to driving the best of everything, they get wined and dined all the time. It's standard. How is one more VIP treatment day going to sway them to fawn over a brand and its new offering? This is their job. They want to maintain credibility with both their peers and the audience.

I don't read as many reviews as I used to. Rather, I watch them. Nothing like seeing the real-time grin factor.

The gist of my post was this (in and of itself): There's no way a guy is going to pour $70k+ into a car he was waiting to order for a year, receive it, and give a completely unbiased "review" (or whatever word you think is most appropriate).

Even if it's on the opposite end of the spectrum (e.g., a lemon). And just because something is a stream of consciousness doesn't make it more credible in my book either. But when there's nothing else to go on, it's better than nothing. And I feel happy for the owner. Getting a new car (especially one like the M3) is an awesome experience and I'm glad people can share it with like-minded enthusiasts on forums like this.
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      04-29-2014, 05:33 PM   #48
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Hey Ybbiz,

Let me take a step back and say I was not confronting you head on but offering a differing opinion that was aimed not at you, but aimed at a broader discussion. However, i re-read what I wrote and it sounded aimed at you as a head-on disagreement. My apologies for the poor writing.

That being said, let me address your statements directly but not antagonistically (hopefully!):

Your original post made it sound like this was not an unbiased review, that by paying $10,000s it's inherently flawed, and that top automotive journalists offer a superior review by driving the best of everything. Yes, I AM INFERRING things you did not say - but I don't think I'm out of bounds either.

My point was simply to say that UAE's offerings are not a review, just in the moment observations so far. That Chris Harris himself said auto journalists are being deliberately swayed by the VIP treatment AND cold shoulder if they trash a vehicle (i.e. the honey and the stick).

...

I don't know of any truly unbiased reviews out there. But, like you, I've learned to trust a few outlets.

Ironically for me, my least favorite reviews come from Roundel
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      04-29-2014, 05:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trutchy View Post
This car will be delivered after the pdi today. Showroom manager told me they where now issued with the embargo but it makes little difference because the next cars are not due for weeks.
I hope that YMB owner is on this board.
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      06-02-2014, 04:37 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I hope that YMB owner is on this board.
He is. See the "My F80 M3 is delivered!" thread. The car was put under embargo for a month, hence I only took delivery on 1st June.
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      06-02-2014, 04:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trutchy View Post
I first told my dealer I wanted to order an m3 last September, so I get the first car in UAE!! They only just confirmed my order for next September delivery.

But heyho the 2nd car is delivered in Dubai today and I have another 3 months to wait! There as also been several in Abu Dhabi. So what is my money not good enough? Or should I have bribed someone!!?
Hey Trutchy,

It's clear that my car managed to beat yours to in terms of arrival. Whether this had to do with the fact that I put my name on the list / ordered mine earlier or that I didn't order a manual, I don't know, but I certainly didn't bribe anybody...

You also know that this YMB car is the only customer car delivered in Dubai so far that and yours (July production, right?) will be the second one. It's just too bad that there's 2 - 3 months in between... but heyho, as you say, that's life.

TomTom.
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      06-02-2014, 08:13 PM   #52
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Thanks for the reply on the passive dampers Tom-Tom sounds very promising
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