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      07-13-2016, 11:42 AM   #133
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I bet the ASD eats away at the lower spectrum when at speed.
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      07-13-2016, 04:37 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Do yourself a favor and replace those wimpy HK speakers with BavSound Stage 1. Step 2 is 0 out all your EQ setting. A clear / full / warm sound system should not require EQ intervention, as long as you have a good audio source (320kbps). The studio uses million dollar equipment to tune the sound of your audio source (song/CD), your EQ setting is just screwing it up.

Man, I wish BavSound would pay me. I've been telling everyone how great my BavSound is.

Photo below should give you a perspective of BMW OEM F80 speakers vs BavSound.
so maybe it is a weight thing.
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      07-15-2016, 09:10 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Requoting Lincoln30 here because this is legit. #4 is what a high-end home/car system is supposed to sound like. If you guys are punching up the bass/treble, it's really just applying bad EQ that is not true to the original source.
I just tried this setting with a couple modifications.

I used balance +2 to the right (+3 was not right to my ears)
I still alternate between Logic7 On and Off depending upon my listening source.

So far, i'm happy with this setup the most, but it does require me to push the volume a bit (but that could have been my test source recording).

Sounds clean, tight with a good bass punch and clear highs.

I'm no audiophile, but it sounds good!
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      07-15-2016, 01:13 PM   #136
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@bluex, The balance is as Lincoln said, somewhere between 2 &3, I also set it to 2. The volume on the HU is darn low, so yeah you have to dial it up a bit, or we are all becoming deaf with age :
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      07-16-2016, 11:09 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by aboulfad
@bluex, The balance is as Lincoln said, somewhere between 2 &3, I also set it to 2. The volume on the HU is darn low, so yeah you have to dial it up a bit, or we are all becoming deaf with age :
Don't think I don't discount the "deaf with age" possibility.....it's very real
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      07-17-2016, 02:35 PM   #138
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How loud do you guys set the volume? I set my radio volume to 10-15 clicks using the knob, which is like 10% of the volume bar. I'm wondering if I listen to music too quietly, because all audio systems sound the same to me i.e. Civic vs. S-class
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      07-17-2016, 04:54 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecf34 View Post
How loud do you guys set the volume? I set my radio volume to 10-15 clicks using the knob, which is like 10% of the volume bar. I'm wondering if I listen to music too quietly, because all audio systems sound the same to me i.e. Civic vs. S-class
At that low of a volume I don't really think you are listening to music but rather have it for background noise? The point that I think many of us who care about the sound have is that any good sound system should try to come as close as possible to recreating a live or studio performance as much as possible. In order to evaluate/recreate that, the volume has to be set much higher than 10% as you mentioned.
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      07-17-2016, 05:03 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
At that low of a volume I don't really think you are listening to music but rather have it for background noise? The point that I think many of us who care about the sound have is that any good sound system should try to come as close as possible to recreating a live or studio performance as much as possible. In order to evaluate/recreate that, the volume has to be set much higher than 10% as you mentioned.
Yeah I think I'm not comfortable with the idea of turning up the volume because it can potentially drown sounds from outside. Just out of curiosity, what % do you set your volume at?

One thing I dislike about the sound system is that the volume from iPhone/BT/Aux is much quieter than radio, whenever I switch between the two I have to adjust the volume a lot (~30% vs 10%). Any way to fix that?
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      07-17-2016, 07:37 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecf34 View Post
One thing I dislike about the sound system is that the volume from iPhone/BT/Aux is much quieter than radio, whenever I switch between the two I have to adjust the volume a lot (~30% vs 10%). Any way to fix that?
I plug my iPhone into the USB in the center console instead of using BT. Radio is still louder but the difference isn't nearly as much as it is with BT audio.
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      07-17-2016, 10:40 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecf34 View Post
Yeah I think I'm not comfortable with the idea of turning up the volume because it can potentially drown sounds from outside. Just out of curiosity, what % do you set your volume at?

One thing I dislike about the sound system is that the volume from iPhone/BT/Aux is much quieter than radio, whenever I switch between the two I have to adjust the volume a lot (~30% vs 10%). Any way to fix that?
I listen between 25-50%. Rarely will I got past that but it all depends on the source material. I agree that there should assignable EQ settings to each source since the signal to noise is definitely variable enough that a one for all EQ is not ideal. Why BMW or HK doesn't remedy this through a software update I don't know. Seems to be an easy fix.
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      10-25-2016, 07:13 AM   #143
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Lincoln thanks for your contribution. So glad I decided to go through the 7 pages instead of using the first equalizer setting I found. Using your number 1 setting with 100 and 200 flat and balance plus 2. I listen to Spotify and satellite usually and it now sounds 100 times better.
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      01-15-2017, 11:50 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln30 View Post
I finally got my car. Here is what I came up with using an Audio Control RTA and pink noise from a CMAA test code (IASCA soaked them up in the early 1990's). This was done in my 2015 M3 with full leather. The microphone was in the drivers seat at my ear level about 2 inches forward of where my ears would be (deep microphone and I didn't want to adjust the seat with the tripod in place).

Let me start with my credentials and goals. I have been an audiophile since I before was 12 (my love of cars started at 7). I was a car electronics installer in the higher end space for 9 years in high school and college. I was a CMAA certified SQ judge. I love accurate sound, when I say that I mean as close to the source recording as possible. That's is not just a flat response but also sound stage and imaging. Because of sound stage and image my primary setting front channels only (fader all the way to the left) and logic 7 turned off.

All of my measurements were taken at 80db avg level using the CMAA CD in the CD player. My main source of music is a 1tb hard drive plugged into the USB port with 2300 songs burned in uncompressed FLAC and 3100 songs burned WAV.

What I am posting here is 4 different settings
1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON
2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF
3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF
4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

The first 3 pics are the setup of the RTA in the passenger floor and the mic in the drivers seat. I sat in the passenger seat to take the measurements.

Attachment 1174108

Attachment 1174109

Attachment 1174110

1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +3

Attachment 1174115

Attachment 1174116

2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +2

Only difference between logic 7 on and off was the +1 bump in 10k.

Attachment 1174118

Attachment 1174119

3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -4
200hz flat
500hz -2
1khz +2
2khz +1
5khz +1
10khz +2

Attachment 1174120

Attachment 1174121


4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

EQ setting
100hz +3
200hz -4
500hz -1
1khz +2
2khz -2
5khz flat
10khz -1


Attachment 1174122

Attachment 1174123

All four examples are very flat from around 500hz to 20k. Below 500 is where the real problems lie. There is bump at 200hz that you can't tune out with the available tools and overall the system a tad brighter then it should be. Overall, It's better then many stock systems and the best I've had in a BMW but still just OK. The bass starts rolling off at 50hz.

I will be using setting #4 with the balance +3 to the right to center it for the driver. +3 is almost perfect but it's a hair too much, +2 is not enough.
Requoting Lincoln30 here because this is legit. #4 is what a high-end home/car system is supposed to sound like. If you guys are punching up the bass/treble, it's really just applying bad EQ that is not true to the original source.
Got my car yesterday. After pairing my phone this was the second thing I did. So far this is the best sounding HK system I've had - many thanks for taking the time to research and share these
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      01-22-2017, 05:16 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln30 View Post
I finally got my car. Here is what I came up with using an Audio Control RTA and pink noise from a CMAA test code (IASCA soaked them up in the early 1990's). This was done in my 2015 M3 with full leather. The microphone was in the drivers seat at my ear level about 2 inches forward of where my ears would be (deep microphone and I didn't want to adjust the seat with the tripod in place).

Let me start with my credentials and goals. I have been an audiophile since I before was 12 (my love of cars started at 7). I was a car electronics installer in the higher end space for 9 years in high school and college. I was a CMAA certified SQ judge. I love accurate sound, when I say that I mean as close to the source recording as possible. That's is not just a flat response but also sound stage and imaging. Because of sound stage and image my primary setting front channels only (fader all the way to the left) and logic 7 turned off.

All of my measurements were taken at 80db avg level using the CMAA CD in the CD player. My main source of music is a 1tb hard drive plugged into the USB port with 2300 songs burned in uncompressed FLAC and 3100 songs burned WAV.

What I am posting here is 4 different settings
1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON
2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF
3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF
4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

The first 3 pics are the setup of the RTA in the passenger floor and the mic in the drivers seat. I sat in the passenger seat to take the measurements.

Attachment 1174108

Attachment 1174109

Attachment 1174110

1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +3

Attachment 1174115

Attachment 1174116

2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +2

Only difference between logic 7 on and off was the +1 bump in 10k.

Attachment 1174118

Attachment 1174119

3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -4
200hz flat
500hz -2
1khz +2
2khz +1
5khz +1
10khz +2

Attachment 1174120

Attachment 1174121


4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

EQ setting
100hz +3
200hz -4
500hz -1
1khz +2
2khz -2
5khz flat
10khz -1

Attachment 1174122

Attachment 1174123

All four examples are very flat from around 500hz to 20k. Below 500 is where the real problems lie. There is bump at 200hz that you can't tune out with the available tools and overall the system a tad brighter then it should be. Overall, It's better then many stock systems and the best I've had in a BMW but still just OK. The bass starts rolling off at 50hz.

I will be using setting #4 with the balance +3 to the right to center it for the driver. +3 is almost perfect but it's a hair too much, +2 is not enough.

Thanks for all your great work on this. Excuse my ignorance but don't the equalizer settings override the bass and treble settings?
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      01-22-2017, 05:20 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln30 View Post
I finally got my car. Here is what I came up with using an Audio Control RTA and pink noise from a CMAA test code (IASCA soaked them up in the early 1990's). This was done in my 2015 M3 with full leather. The microphone was in the drivers seat at my ear level about 2 inches forward of where my ears would be (deep microphone and I didn't want to adjust the seat with the tripod in place).

Let me start with my credentials and goals. I have been an audiophile since I before was 12 (my love of cars started at 7). I was a car electronics installer in the higher end space for 9 years in high school and college. I was a CMAA certified SQ judge. I love accurate sound, when I say that I mean as close to the source recording as possible. That's is not just a flat response but also sound stage and imaging. Because of sound stage and image my primary setting front channels only (fader all the way to the left) and logic 7 turned off.

All of my measurements were taken at 80db avg level using the CMAA CD in the CD player. My main source of music is a 1tb hard drive plugged into the USB port with 2300 songs burned in uncompressed FLAC and 3100 songs burned WAV.

What I am posting here is 4 different settings
1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON
2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF
3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF
4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

The first 3 pics are the setup of the RTA in the passenger floor and the mic in the drivers seat. I sat in the passenger seat to take the measurements.

Attachment 1174108

Attachment 1174109

Attachment 1174110

1. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned ON

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +3

Attachment 1174115

Attachment 1174116

2. Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance all centered, logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -3
200hz -1
500hz +2
1khz +1
2khz flat
5khz +2
10khz +2

Only difference between logic 7 on and off was the +1 bump in 10k.

Attachment 1174118

Attachment 1174119

3. Bass, Treble, Balance all centered, Fader to the front and logic 7 turned OFF

EQ setting
100hz -4
200hz flat
500hz -2
1khz +2
2khz +1
5khz +1
10khz +2

Attachment 1174120

Attachment 1174121


4. Absolute flattest I could get - Bass -6 or 7 (I can't tell from the pic but I remember its four bars from the left showing), Treble center, balance center, fader front, logic 7 OFF

EQ setting
100hz +3
200hz -4
500hz -1
1khz +2
2khz -2
5khz flat
10khz -1

Attachment 1174122

Attachment 1174123

All four examples are very flat from around 500hz to 20k. Below 500 is where the real problems lie. There is bump at 200hz that you can't tune out with the available tools and overall the system a tad brighter then it should be. Overall, It's better then many stock systems and the best I've had in a BMW but still just OK. The bass starts rolling off at 50hz.

I will be using setting #4 with the balance +3 to the right to center it for the driver. +3 is almost perfect but it's a hair too much, +2 is not enough.

Thanks for all your hard work on this. Excuse my ignorance but on the last setting doesn't the equalizer override the bass and treble settings?
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      01-22-2017, 06:33 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppendyck View Post
Thanks for all your hard work on this. Excuse my ignorance but on the last setting doesn't the equalizer override the bass and treble settings?
No. They add or remove frequencies across the whole range.
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      01-22-2017, 07:14 PM   #148
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FYI, these settings are most likely not applicable to the newer cars with iDrive 5. I've had both a 2016 and 2017 with the HK system and my 2017 sounds noticeably better. Bass is tighter and stronger and highs are less harsh on the newer HK system. For reference I copied over my driver profile so all settings are the same.
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      01-23-2017, 12:03 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
FYI, these settings are most likely not applicable to the newer cars with iDrive 5. I've had both a 2016 and 2017 with the HK system and my 2017 sounds noticeably better. Bass is tighter and stronger and highs are less harsh on the newer HK system. For reference I copied over my driver profile so all settings are the same.
Thank you. So what settings do you use?
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      01-24-2017, 12:43 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppendyck View Post
Thank you. So what settings do you use?
This is what sounds good to me for the mp3s I have loaded. I listen to everything but country. The bass is too much for Sat radio tho. Overall I prefer more bass to be felt and the settings sound better when you're driving. I also have active sound coded off.
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      03-13-2017, 04:39 AM   #151
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Calibrated mic measurements with Harman house curve

I know this is kind of an old thread but just wanted to share my settings and methodology.

I used a UMIK-1 calibrated microphone and used REW to do the measurements. I did a few sweep tests with the settings on the car set to 0 and Logic7 turned off. I then used the AutoEQ function in REW to create a correction profile. I then applied that to a MiniDSP (basically a mini computer that does digital signal processing.)

One difference between my settings and Lincoln30's is that I created a correction profile set to a "house curve", specifically the Harman curve. Double-blind tests by Harman and B&K have shown that (some/many/most?) people prefer a slightly increased bass response and a slight treble roll-off as opposed to a completely flat response. If that appeals to you, you may like my settings. I find that flat is not ideal for me especially considering the music has to fight with engine noise, road noise etc. My settings actually weren't too different from the ones Lincoln30 posted as his #2 setting, so that was good. My measurements showed the same issues that Lincoln30 stated were "unfixable" without some hardware upgrades. I completely agree.

After I had the correction profile applied to the MiniDSP, I ran some pink noise through the system and took another measurement and used that as a reference. I set REW to 1/1 Octave because that is all the refinement our BMW's EQ will allow. Then I ran pink noise without any DSP corrections and instead tried to match my reference measurements only using the M3's EQ adjustments.

Here are my settings:
Treble: 0
Bass: 0
Logic7: off
100hz: -2
200hz: -3
500hz: +2
1khz: 0
2khz: 0
5khz: 0
10khz: +1

I've attached my frequency response measurements from REW.

Blue line: EQ settings flat (stock settings) logic7 off
Green line: Correction profile created by REW AutoEQ applied to MiniDSP
Gold line: EQ settings on the car (as closely matched as possible) to REW's AutoEQ settings on MiniDSP

Update: After analyzing the stock settings, it looks like they closely follow the Harman/JBL house curve (it is a Harman Kardon system). It looks like what they've done is boost the lower frequencies (from about 300hz down to 50hz) possibly to account for road and engine noise. Just a thought. These guys might not be so thoughtless after all. I've come to this conclusion because after making the initial adjustments while parked, the system sounded awesome. When I started driving, I felt like the bass was being drowned out by noise. I looked back at the graph to see what I adjustments I should make to the low end. Oh wow, they already thought about that. Darn you BMW! :-)
Attached Images
 

Last edited by joeykayo; 03-13-2017 at 10:16 AM.. Reason: Add photos for clarification.
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      03-14-2017, 01:06 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeykayo View Post
I know this is kind of an old thread but just wanted to share my settings and methodology.

I used a UMIK-1 calibrated microphone and used REW to do the measurements. I did a few sweep tests with the settings on the car set to 0 and Logic7 turned off. I then used the AutoEQ function in REW to create a correction profile. I then applied that to a MiniDSP (basically a mini computer that does digital signal processing.)

One difference between my settings and Lincoln30's is that I created a correction profile set to a "house curve", specifically the Harman curve. Double-blind tests by Harman and B&K have shown that (some/many/most?) people prefer a slightly increased bass response and a slight treble roll-off as opposed to a completely flat response. If that appeals to you, you may like my settings. I find that flat is not ideal for me especially considering the music has to fight with engine noise, road noise etc. My settings actually weren't too different from the ones Lincoln30 posted as his #2 setting, so that was good. My measurements showed the same issues that Lincoln30 stated were "unfixable" without some hardware upgrades. I completely agree.

After I had the correction profile applied to the MiniDSP, I ran some pink noise through the system and took another measurement and used that as a reference. I set REW to 1/1 Octave because that is all the refinement our BMW's EQ will allow. Then I ran pink noise without any DSP corrections and instead tried to match my reference measurements only using the M3's EQ adjustments.

Here are my settings:
Treble: 0
Bass: 0
Logic7: off
100hz: -2
200hz: -3
500hz: +2
1khz: 0
2khz: 0
5khz: 0
10khz: +1

I've attached my frequency response measurements from REW.

Blue line: EQ settings flat (stock settings) logic7 off
Green line: Correction profile created by REW AutoEQ applied to MiniDSP
Gold line: EQ settings on the car (as closely matched as possible) to REW's AutoEQ settings on MiniDSP

Update: After analyzing the stock settings, it looks like they closely follow the Harman/JBL house curve (it is a Harman Kardon system). It looks like what they've done is boost the lower frequencies (from about 300hz down to 50hz) possibly to account for road and engine noise. Just a thought. These guys might not be so thoughtless after all. I've come to this conclusion because after making the initial adjustments while parked, the system sounded awesome. When I started driving, I felt like the bass was being drowned out by noise. I looked back at the graph to see what I adjustments I should make to the low end. Oh wow, they already thought about that. Darn you BMW! :-)
Bumped for an awesome post. Thanks for your efforts.
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      03-14-2017, 01:37 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
This is what sounds good to me for the mp3s I have loaded. I listen to everything but country. The bass is too much for Sat radio tho. Overall I prefer more bass to be felt and the settings sound better when you're driving. I also have active sound coded off.
I'm jelly.......I want the new interface too!!!!!
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      03-14-2017, 03:58 PM   #154
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I'm jelly.......I want the new interface too!!!!!
so code it
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