M4 Project vs Cayman GT4

[ANYC]

Originally Posted by gtr

I thought the same thing also! In that case the M2 wouldn't be a bad choice either if the OP doesn't need the space. I would also point out it's not just about the weight. The location of the weight matters also, thus the GT4 is already superior from the mid engine polar moment perspective.

Ahh I'm sorry I confused you guys! I've leased the x5 through the remainder of school as I frequently lug many bags and people and things around. When I'm done with school and transition to working full time I won't need to space.


With regards to the weight, is the issue with weight not necessarily the distribution of weight but the density of certain objects (i.e the engine block)? Is this also what makes the m4 so tail happy?


I feel like this majority of the weight savings that can be done on the m4 are behind the engine, do people know of ways to reduce the weight of the front of the car?

[gtr]

Originally Posted by ///M4hedy

With regards to the weight, is the issue with weight not necessarily the distribution of weight but the density of certain objects (i.e the engine block)? Is this also what makes the m4 so tail happy?

Let say these are cars and both are 50:50 weigh distribution at the CG point and both weights 3500lbs. Which do you think turns better? Have you tried holding a dumbbell and rotate it? This should be self explanatory physics 101. The majority of the weight in the dead center of the car turns better than weight anywhere else.

[dharo1]

Originally Posted by MPerformance211

That makes for a damn nice garage. Congrats!.....all I'd need in addition to those two is my beater 4Runner for the snow and to haul the dog around from time to time.

Yeap...my beater is a '15 4x4 Tundra...i've done close to 30k miles in one year. I like my truck and I love driving the M3, but looking forward to the GT4.

[nicknaz]

For a weekend only car with $115k budget, i dont think bmw of any sort is the answer.

Get a 2 seats pure sports car! For that reason i voted gt4, but really, i think z07 and viper TA need to be considered as well as more extreme machines such as radical or ariel.

Gt4 is a great car but a sub 120mph trap speed is not "super" anymore, and camaro/mustang etc will be able to hang with you on the highway. I would be annoyed spending $115k and not able to pull away at will from a car 1/3 the cost

[KZEVO]

I vote GT4. The issue I think is if this is even a realistic option. My understanding is that all the GT4 are spoken for, unless you think you can get one somehow.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

For a weekend only car with $115k budget, i dont think bmw of any sort is the answer.

Get a 2 seats pure sports car! For that reason i voted gt4, but really, i think z07 and viper TA need to be considered as well as more extreme machines such as radical or ariel.

Gt4 is a great car but a sub 120mph trap speed is not "super" anymore, and camaro/mustang etc will be able to hang with you on the highway. I would be annoyed spending $115k and not able to pull away at will from a car 1/3 the cost

Not everything is about street racing lol . The Cayman chassis is light years beyond those cars in feedback, balance and driver experience . That goes vs the M4 as well . On track in a balanced chassis that's sub 3 K pounds with aero, 380 hp with a broad flat tq curve is more than enough . I've owned some stupid fast cars but my favorite is still my track prepped Z4M because of the driving experience . That's what we are really paying for after all isn't it . It's not always a dick measuring contest of my car traps more than yours for some of us .

[MPerformance211]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Not everything is about street racing lol . The Cayman chassis is light years beyond those cars in feedback, balance and driver experience . That goes vs the M4 as well . On track in a balanced chassis that's sub 3 K pounds with aero, 380 hp with a broad flat tq curve is more than enough . I've owned some stupid fast cars but my favorite is still my track prepped Z4M because of the driving experience . That's what we are really paying for after all isn't it . It's not always a dick measuring contest of my car traps more than yours for some of us .

Exactly. I think the Z06 and Viper are great cars (although not a fan of the Vette rear end) and probably should be considered if you are all about performance first from a roll racing standpoint. As far as the Camaro or Mustang go.........would not care in the least if they were able to keep up on the street (I don't street race).

$100K to spend on a fun toy I'm going with the GT4 all day. Looks amazing, sounds amazing and performs amazingly. The handling and connected feel cannot be matched at its price point.

[IEDEI]

GT4 no comparison.

[EfEightyM3]

GT4, no question. No better car or even close unless you're buying a GT3/RS, 675LT or speciale and even then not sure those are "better" cars. The couple friends I have with the GT4 don't have a bad thing to say.

[AlterZgo]

OP - here's what I'm hearing: you want a nice car, something to learn how to work on cars AND learn how to drive better on the track, and you have a $110k or so budget. I would do this:

Buy a base M4, and a used FRS/BRZ. You can learn how to wrench on the FRS and it's the perfect track car for beginners. Frankly, a M4 or GT4 are not cars that inexperienced people should use to learn mechanic skills or driving skills on the track. They are very expensive to fix if you screw up.

The FRS is super mod friendly and cheap. If you mess it up, it's relatively inexpensive to repair. OTOH, if a tune blows up your M motor, that will cost more than an entire used FRS to replace. From my experience, due to the "M tax" my M3 has been ridiculously expensive to mod. $4K+ for a simple exhaust system, expensive tires, expensive suspension and tunes, etc.

The good thing about my recommendation is, you have a fun car that you can truly experiment and learn on (both driving and modding) with little financial risk AND you still have a brand new M4 to drive with full factory warranty. Once you get good at driving and modding the FRS, you can track the M4. If you outgrow the performance of the FRS, you sell it and now you have some money that you can use towards modding the M4.

[csbear]

The respect on the road the GT4 garners is unbelievable (I have lived in NYC, San Francisco, Washington DC, and Philly areas, so I have a slight idea due to the type of cars that populate these areas and the auto events I've been to.)

From what I recall since I've owned the GT4: Ferrari, Tesla, Porsche, Corvette, BMW M, AMG, Mustang, Challenger, Lexus RC (-F?), BRZ, G37, Range Rover, Escalade, teens in souped up Hondas, and even motorcycle drivers have all given me thumbs up or said positive things about it in various places. I went to the Porsche dealer recently and a bunch of nearby Audi and Mercedes sales associates in the dealer park surrounded my car when I parked it. Yes, a big part is that the GT4 is new, so people are curious. However, at least so far, nobody has even once tried to street race me yet (which is fine because that's just not me). Partially because other drivers who actually know performance cars just respect the car for what it truly is... a track weapon, where your car (or at least many cars on the road) wouldn't have a chance. And this is without a PDK.

Everybody has their preferences, and of course I have driven more powerful cars, but there are very few front engine (or even rear engine) cars that will provide the similar enjoyment as a small, mid-engined, smooth-as-hell manual, superb handling on Sport Cups, with a beautiful sounding exhaust like this car can. If Porsche did put C63S or M4 power into the GT4, the 911 might just go extinct. But I did hear about a GT4RS rumor when I was talking to one of the Porsche SA yesterday (he personally sold 3 GT4s). We shall see... A GT4RS would be outta my price range anyway.

I fully understand that not everyone wants to pay around $100K for just 385 horses, but the GT4 really does make up for it in so many ways. I drove my brother's new 991 GTS recently, and even that almost felt like an SUV compared to my GT4, haha!

On Porsche forums, I have seen former GT-R drivers who are very happy with their GT4s and even 981 GTS. So sometimes it just takes a paradigm shift in the way we think and feel about cars. We are lucky to have so many great cars today to choose from and fortunately they are different in the way they perform.

[ANYC]

After a lot of careful consideration I actually think I may be heading in a completely different direction. I've been thinking about moving into a 911 C4S. I'd love to hear others opinions of the C4S, it would still be a stick. Current config on the C4S is Lava Orange, CCBs, sport seats plus, pasm, sport package, Bose, and led headlights. A few cosmetic bits too but that's not important.

[csbear]

Originally Posted by ///M4hedy

After a lot of careful consideration I actually think I may be heading in a completely different direction. I've been thinking about moving into a 911 C4S. I'd love to hear others opinions of the C4S, it would still be a stick. Current config on the C4S is Lava Orange, CCBs, sport seats plus, pasm, sport package, Bose, and led headlights. A few cosmetic bits too but that's not important.

I really like that config, and say 'yes, go for it!' Especially with the Lava Orange! And since it's a 991.2, the added low-end torque is going to be fun. Are you getting the Sports Exhaust? I believe that's a must for these new turbo cars, or the sound may be a let down compared to the NA gen.

Hell, I'd configure it the same pretty much: Lava Orange, manual, PCCB, Sports Exhaust, and the -20mm sports suspension.

The 911 Carrera 4S is quintessential Porsche. It's going to be a great car, regardless of it being air cooled, water cooled, NA or turbo, etc, etc.

[chillindrdude]

i think ccb is unnecessary.

and if LWBs are available, i'd get those.

also think about getting the rear wheel steering and the front axle lift if getting the sports suspension.

[ANYC]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

i think ccb is unnecessary.

and if LWBs are available, i'd get those.

also think about getting the rear wheel steering and the front axle lift if getting the sports suspension.

Rear wheel steer is included in sports package as is the sport exhaust.

Unfortunately LWBs aren't available. I really want them though .

[ANYC]

Originally Posted by csbear

I really like that config, and say 'yes, go for it!' Especially with the Lava Orange! And since it's a 991.2, the added low-end torque is going to be fun. Are you getting the Sports Exhaust? I believe that's a must for these new turbo cars, or the sound may be a let down compared to the NA gen.

Hell, I'd configure it the same pretty much: Lava Orange, manual, PCCB, Sports Exhaust, and the -20mm sports suspension.

The 911 Carrera 4S is quintessential Porsche. It's going to be a great car, regardless of it being air cooled, water cooled, NA or turbo, etc, etc.

The sports package is pretty comprehensive: rear wheel steer, sport steering wheel (the new one is gorgeous), sports exhaust and a few other things. It's almost 1.5k cheaper than choosing the options individually.

I'm going to need advice on backing out of my M4 order though. I've never done it before and it's not a relationship I'm looking to sour.

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by ///M4hedy

The sports package is pretty comprehensive: rear wheel steer, sport steering wheel (the new one is gorgeous), sports exhaust and a few other things. It's almost 1.5k cheaper than choosing the options individually.

I'm going to need advice on backing out of my M4 order though. I've never done it before and it's not a relationship I'm looking to sour.

what advice? you are the consumer.

just say, hey, i've reconsidered my needs, gonna go in a different direction. if the SA sours, it's on him. it's not like you were about to sign on the dotted line and take delivery....


i also wished the aerocup kit was still available as an option on the 991.2

[ANYC]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

what advice? you are the consumer.

just say, hey, i've reconsidered my needs, gonna in a different direction. if the SA sours, it's on him. it's not like you were about the sign on the dotted line and take delivery....

Fair enough. I've never backed out of an order so I didn't know if there were dos and don'ts.

Totally agree on the aero kit cup part. There's a 991.1 GTS in Texas selling at 109k with the Aero kit cup and I am resisting the urge to go with that instead

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by ///M4hedy

Fair enough. I've never backed out of an order so I didn't know if there were dos and don'ts.

Totally agree on the aero kit cup part. There's a 991.1 GTS in Texas selling at 109k with the Aero kit cup and I am resisting the urge to go with that instead

i'd get the GTS...



and if low mileage, and clean DME report, a helluva deal

[ANYC]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

i'd get the GTS...



and if low mileage, and clean DME report, a helluva deal

When the lease on my x5 is up I'll be without a car that's drivable in the winter. At least the C4S has AWD

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by ///M4hedy

When the lease on my x5 is up I'll be without a car that's drivable in the winter. At least the C4S has AWD

buy a beater jeep or 4x4 truck.

i think the 911 is better RWD. but that's just my opinion.

you give up weight and more drivetrain loss with the awd.

[csbear]

My brother just got a 991.1 GTS. It's a great car no doubt, and beautiful... He drove my GT4 and I drove his GTS on windy back roads of Great Falls, VA and it was a blast following each other. It was pretty funny watching people's reaction when a Carmine Red 911 GTS was being followed by a Sapphire Blue GT4.

Unfortunately, only GT cars get the LWBs, and I don't think that will change anytime soon due to the general supply problems with that seat. The carbon buckets are going to GT4, GT3/RS, 918 customers first, and even those customers had trouble getting the seats on the initial run.

As for backing out of the M4, chillindrdude is right, you owe them nothing, and it's pretty commonplace to back out of an order even with deposit placed. Even at delivery time, if you saw something you didn't like (i.e., like they drilled front holes in the bumper without asking), you can decline.

I am also with chillindrdude, I personally would go without AWD only IF you can get a another beater car. My brother had a 991 Targa 4S and traded it in for his 991 GTS and he couldn't be happier.