M4CS tyre choice

[drgmt]

My M4 CS came with pilot super sport tyres rather then pilot sport cup 2 tyres.

Was thinking of swapping over and it will be a daily tyre.

Can anyone advise what the wet weather grip is like for sensible daily driving ?

[MPoweRo]

Originally Posted by drgmt

My M4 CS came with pilot super sport tyres rather then pilot sport cup 2 tyres.

Was thinking of swapping over and it will be a daily tyre.

Can anyone advise what the wet weather grip is like for sensible daily driving ?

Hey mate.

Wet is fine, it's the cold they don't like. Under 10 and they're pretty skatey.

You'll also notice they ride firmly and can be noisy on some coarse chip.

[NYG]

SS is better for wet.

4S is better than SS.

SC2 is pretty shady in wet and pretty ok on track.

[CanAutM3]

My M4cs is shod with PSC2. The PSC2 are decent enough in the wet. I drove them in pretty heavy downpoors and they worked well enough with not real aquaplanning issues. When they are up to operating temp, they offer very decent wet grip. I also drove on them in temperatures just above freezing last fall before swapping out to my winter setup, while they definitely felt harder and less grippy, they still worked decently for the daily drive to work. However, they are really bad when it is cold AND wet. I could still manage, but with a lot of restraint. Any small probe of the throttle would sent the rear sideways.

My M4cs was mistakenly delivered with the PSS instead of the PSC2. I drove on the PSS for the first 10-days after delivery before the dealer swapped the tires to PSC2, which gave me a good back-to-back appreciation of the different tires. I can attest that the PSC2 really enhance the CS driving experience. They make the car feel like a much more cohesive package.

That being said, I am still considering replacing them with PS4S when they will be worn out. Since I already have another dedicated "dry track" set of wheels and tires, what I need is a DD and "wet track" setup. The PS4S would better fit that bill. I am still debating...

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My M4cs is shod with PSC2. The PSC2 are decent enough in the wet. I drove them in pretty heavy downpoors and they worked well enough. I also drove on them in temperatures just above freezing last fall before swapping out to my winter setup, while they definitely felt harder, they still worked decently for the daily drive to work. However, they are really bad when it is cold AND wet. I could still manage, but with a lot of restraint. Any small probe of the throttle would sent the rear tires spinning.

My M4cs was mistakenly delivered with the PSS instead of the PSC2. I drove on the PSS for the first 10-days after delivery before the dealer swapped the tires for the PSC2, which gave me a good back-to-back appreciation of the differemt tires. I can attest that the PSC2 really enhance the CS driving experience. They make the car feel like a much more cohesive package.

That being said, I am still considering replacing them with PS4S when they will be worn out. Since I already have another dedicated "dry track" set of wheels and tires, what I need is a DD and "wet track" setup. The PS4S would better fit that bill. I am still debating...

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

My M4cs is shod with PSC2. The PSC2 are decent enough in the wet. I drove them in pretty heavy downpoors and they worked well enough. I also drove on them in temperatures just above freezing last fall before swapping out to my winter setup, while they definitely felt harder, they still worked decently for the daily drive to work. However, they are really bad when it is cold AND wet. I could still manage, but with a lot of restraint. Any small probe of the throttle would sent the rear tires spinning.

My M4cs was mistakenly delivered with the PSS instead of the PSC2. I drove on the PSS for the first 10-days after delivery before the dealer swapped the tires for the PSC2, which gave me a good back-to-back appreciation of the differemt tires. I can attest that the PSC2 really enhance the CS driving experience. They make the car feel like a much more cohesive package.

That being said, I am still considering replacing them with PS4S when they will be worn out. Since I already have another dedicated "dry track" set of wheels and tires, what I need is a DD and "wet track" setup. The PS4S would better fit that bill. I am still debating...

I almost took the plunge with cup 2s but have decided on the 4S tyres.

Might go with a dedicated track set of wheels and tyres. What wheel setup do you use on track ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by drgmt

I almost took the plunge with cup 2s but have decided on the 4S tyres.

Might go with a dedicated track set of wheels and tyres. What wheel setup do you use on track ?

It's the setup I had on my previous 2015 M4: Apex EC-7 18x10ET25 front and 18x11ET44 rear shod with Nitto NT01 275-305/35R18. FYI, Apex now offer lighter weight wheels that were not available when I originally bought my EC-7, I would get these lighter ones if I were in the market now.

What sizes are you considering for the PS4S?

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's the setup I had on my previous 2015 M4: Apex EC-7 18x10ET25 front and 18x11ET44 rear shod with Nitto NT01 275-305/35R18. FYI, Apex now offer lighter weight wheels that were not available when I originally bought my EC-7, I would get these lighter ones if I were in the market now.

What sizes are you considering for the PS4S?

Was just going to run the pilot Supersport sizes that are standard with the car


255/35/19 front
285/30/20 rear

The cup 2s would have Been

265/35/19 front
285/30/20 rear


I might buy a set of stock CS wheels and run cup 2s on them for track days

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Was just going to run the pilot Supersport sizes that are standard with the car


255/35/19 front
285/30/20 rear

The cup 2s would have Been

265/35/19 front
285/30/20 rear


I might buy a set of stock CS wheels and run cup 2s on them for track days

The tread width of the star spec PSC2 is a fair bit wider than the star spec PSS of the same size.

While the 265/35R19 PS4S is fine with 9.6" of tread width, I find the 285/30R20 PS4S a bit narrow at 9.9". I am considering going with the 295/30R20 instead that has an 11.1" tread width.

Cup2 are bloody expensive for track only tires. They are really meant as dual use tire.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The tread width of the star spec PSC2 is a fair bit wider than the star spec PSS of the same size.

While the 265/35R19 PS4S is fine with 9.6" of tread width, I find the 285/30R20 PS4S a bit narrow at 9.9". I am considering going with the 295/30R20 instead that has an 11.1" tread width.

Cup2 are bloody expensive for track only tires. They are really meant as dual use tire.

The plan was always to keep the stock cup 2 sizing as I figured this was how the car was designed to maximise performance.

As far as the 4S tyres go, it's a little unclear but my aim is to try and stick to the PSS sizing. The 4S would only really be the daily driving tyre with occasionally twisty bit fun wet or dry.

I could then swap the track wheels directly prior the dry track day and then back to 4S for daily driving.

Hopefully a set of oem CS wheels will become available at a decent price.

I do a lot of motor way driving with heavy rain and the combination of cold and wet as well as standing water makes me a little nervous about the cup 2 as a daily

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by drgmt

The plan was always to keep the stock cup 2 sizing as I figured this was how the car was designed to maximise performance.

As far as the 4S tyres go, it's a little unclear but my aim is to try and stick to the PSS sizing. The 4S would only really be the daily driving tyre with occasionally twisty bit fun wet or dry.

I could then swap the track wheels directly prior the dry track day and then back to 4S for daily driving.

Hopefully a set of oem CS wheels will become available at a decent price.

I do a lot of motor way driving with heavy rain and the combination of cold and wet as well as standing water makes me a little nervous about the cup 2 as a daily

Sizing is more than just the nominal dimensions. Tread width and shape have a greater influence on performance than the nominal size. The CS is optimized around 1.2” tread width stagger difference (9.1” front; 10.3” rear). Going with the same size PS4S would only result in a 0.3” tread with difference (9.6” front; 9.9” rear) whereas going with a 295/30R20 rear would bring the difference closer to stock with 1.5” difference (9.6” front; 11.1” rear).

[NYG]

Consider RE71Rs. Although I use the same track setup as CanAutM3 and love it (EC-7 + NT01), a few people whose opinions I really value seem to prefer the RE71R over the NT01.

Also the new Eagle F1 Super Sports are coming Q4 of this year and should be outrageous.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by drgmt

I almost took the plunge with cup 2s but have decided on the 4S tyres.

Might go with a dedicated track set of wheels and tyres. What wheel setup do you use on track ?

Smart decision! The 4S as a daily tire is pretty impossible to beat at the moment.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by NYG

Consider RE71Rs. Although I use the same track setup as CanAutM3 and love it (EC-7 + NT01), a few people whose opinions I really value seem to prefer the RE71R over the NT01.

Also the new Eagle F1 Super Sports are coming Q4 of this year and should be outrageous.

Agreed.

The RE71R is a damn impressive tire. I came across an M3cs at WGI in May that was running RE71R and I struggled to keep pace with him with my NT01 (he's also a bloody good driver). Too bad they don't have a good RE71R fitment for my rear 18x11 wheels, otherwise I would have given them a try.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sizing is more than just the nominal dimensions. Tread width and shape have a greater influence on performance than the nominal size. The CS is optimized around 1.2" tread width stagger difference (9.1" front; 10.3" rear). Going with the same size PS4S would only result in a 0.3" tread with difference (9.6" front; 9.9" rear) whereas going with a 295/30R20 rear would bring the difference closer to stock with 1.5" difference (9.6" front; 11.1" rear).

My understand was the 255 upfront would improve turn in hence why I was going to keep 255 upfront and 285 in the rear.

Do you know what that stagger is with 4S tyres

255/35/19 and 285/30/20?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by drgmt

My understand was the 255 upfront would improve turn in hence why I was going to keep 255 upfront and 285 in the rear.

Do you know what that stagger is with 4S tyres

255/35/19 and 285/30/20?

I see two different spec 255/35R19 PS4S, with 8.9” and 9.1” wide threads. These, when paired with the 9.9” wide 285/30R20 rear would indeed improve the stagger with 0.8” or 1.0” depending on which 255 is used. IMO going with narrower tires would improve wet performance at the expense of dry performance which could be better suited to your driving context.

I am not sure why you say a 255 would improve turn-in though?

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I see two different spec 255/35R19 PS4S, with 8.9" and 9.1" wide threads. These, when paired with the 9.9" wide 285/30R20 rear would indeed improve the stagger with 0.8" or 1.0" depending on which 255 is used. IMO going with narrower tires would improve wet performance at the expense of dry performance which could be better suited to your driving context.

I am not sure why you say a 255 would improve turn-in though?

I thought having the narrower tyre upfront would improve turn in. That was the primary purpose of the staggered layout. I may be mistaken if course. I'm no expert here lol

[anurak]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sizing is more than just the nominal dimensions. Tread width and shape have a greater influence on performance than the nominal size. The CS is optimized around 1.2” tread width stagger difference (9.1” front; 10.3” rear). Going with the same size PS4S would only result in a 0.3” tread with difference (9.6” front; 9.9” rear) whereas going with a 295/30R20 rear would bring the difference closer to stock with 1.5” difference (9.6” front; 11.1” rear).

I just read this forum after I change to PS4s. I use 265/35 and 285/30 with same spec from my previous cup2 and I notice that the rear isn’t follow the front wheel when I quickly turn the steering wheel. I figure out now that it’s because of thread width of the PS4s. I want to know if I use 295/30 will it eliminate this staggered feels i’m having now? Or I should go Cup2 to get the old feeling back. Thank you!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by anurak

I just read this forum after I change to PS4s. I use 265/35 and 285/30 with same spec from my previous cup2 and I notice that the rear isn’t follow the front wheel when I quickly turn the steering wheel. I figure out now that it’s because of thread width of the PS4s. I want to know if I use 295/30 will it eliminate this staggered feels i’m having now? Or I should go Cup2 to get the old feeling back. Thank you!

Ultimately, the CS is tuned and optimzied around the PSC2, so it remains the best option for all four corners.

However, if you favour a more street friendly setup, particularly for the wet, the 295/30R20 generic PS4S is a good option for a more balanced handling when paired with the front 265/35R19 PS4S. There are two 295/30R20 PS4S, ensure you select the generic one though and not the M01.

[jmg]

Just wanted to add my experience so far with this setup:

Currently running PS4S 265/35R19 and 295/30/R20. I had SS 285's in the rear paired with the PS4S 265's in front while I was waiting for the PS4S 295's to come in, and while I am no expert, I felt the 295's in the rear were better matched not only aesthetically, but dynamically.

This past weekend I went with a more aggressive -2.4 rear camber (factory was -1.75 after MPHAS installation). -2.7 in front. That paired with corner balancing has changed the handling characteristics of the car noticeably. The goal was to increase front end grip and tame that rear end on high speed cornering. I'll report back in a few weeks after I hit the track again.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

Just wanted to add my experience so far with this setup:

Currently running PS4S 265/35R19 and 295/30/R20. I had SS 285's in the rear paired with the PS4S 265's in front while I was waiting for the PS4S 295's to come in, and while I am no expert, I felt the 295's in the rear were better matched not only aesthetically, but dynamically.

This past weekend I went with a more aggressive -2.4 rear camber (factory was -1.75 after MPHAS installation). -2.7 in front. That paired with corner balancing has changed the handling characteristics of the car noticeably. The goal was to increase front end grip and tame that rear end on high speed cornering. I'll report back in a few weeks after I hit the track again.

That seems like a lot of rear camber. On my previous M4, I ran -1.6 in the rear and was getting perfect wear and temperature distribution across the tread. On my CS with MP-HAS, I increased rear camber to -1.8 (don't ask why I did, I guess I just wanted to experiment ) and I am now getting suboptimal temperature distribution and wear (inside wearing faster). I will dial it back down to -1.6 in the spring when I get it aligned before the track season.

As for the tires, my M4cs came with PSC2 (I am in Canada). The 265/35R19 with 295/30R20 PS4S was the setup I originally wanted to get after my PSC2 had worn out. I figured I already had a dedicated set of tires and wheels for the dry track and needed a DD friendly tire as well as a wet track tire, hence the PS4S. However, after a full season of driving on the PSC2, I decided to stick with them. I heard all sort of stories about how horrible they are in the wet, but a very wet track day proved this to be completely wrong. I was quite impressed with the performance of the PSC2 on a drenched track. I like the added crispness and grip the offer on the DD and they perform well enough on the wet.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That seems like a lot of rear camber. On my previous M4, I ran -1.6 in the rear and was getting perfect wear and temperature distribution across the tread. On my CS with MP-HAS, I increased rear camber to -1.8 (don't ask why I did, I guess I just wanted to experiment ) and I am now getting suboptimal temperature distribution and wear (inside wearing faster). I will dial it back down to -1.6 in the spring when I get it aligned before the track season.

As for the tires, my M4cs came with PSC2 (I am in Canada). The 265/35R19 with 295/30R20 PS4S was the setup I originally wanted to get after my PSC2 had worn out. I figured I already had a dedicated set of tires and wheels for the dry track and needed a DD friendly tire as well as a wet track tire, hence the PS4S. However, after a full season of driving on the PSC2, I decided to stick with them. I heard all sort of stories about how horrible they are in the wet, but a very wet track day proved this to be completely wrong. I was quite impressed with the performance of the PSC2 on a drenched track. I like the added crispness and grip the offer on the DD and they perform well enough on the wet.

I'll take that into consideration. West End Alignment, which is the most reputable shop in my area recommended the -2.4 rear camber and I trust them. What was your rear camber from the factory I wonder? According to the shop, with the MPHAS I was at:

-2.75 driver front, -2.3 passenger front, 3/32 toe out in the fronts.
-1.75 driver rear and -1.7 passenger rear with 0 toe in the rears.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

I'll take that into consideration. West End Alignment, which is the most reputable shop in my area recommended the -2.4 rear camber and I trust them. What was your rear camber from the factory I wonder? According to the shop, with the MPHAS I was at:

-2.75 driver front, -2.3 passenger front, 3/32 toe out in the fronts.
-1.75 driver rear and -1.7 passenger rear with 0 toe in the rears.

I never checked my M4cs' alignment on the stock springs, I had the MP-HAS installed during the break-in oil change.

IIRC, the stock rear camber on my 2015 M4 was at -1.9. Optimal alignment is a variable thing, it depends on many factors such as driving style, track layout, tires, suspension tuning, etc...