Replacing F80 with S4?

[ptper]

Good times...

[Fuller]

That actually looks slick. Oh wait, it's an Audi, nvm.
It does look good though.

[spool twice]

if you have to have AWD, it's not a bad choice to have. In fact, it's actually a great choice. There are differences obviously as the S4 competes more with the 335/340i cars. I racked up 107k miles on my S5, over 1,000 launches on the launch control counter, not a single hiccup from the transmission, the engine pushed 21-22psi since like 20,000 miles without fault (aside from intercooler leak issues similar to the F80 M3), not a single electrical fault, and the interior was still like-new at trade-in (aniline-dyed leather at its best).

The biggest downside to that car when modding is if you get the Eaton past its efficiency range, it heats up disproportionately, and intake air temps always becomes a battle beyond stage 1 flash upgrade, so be prepared to upgrade and then still face an endless battle...

But from my perspective, yes it would be a downgrade, especially if your F80 has a full leather interior. The 2016 MMI is also a generation behind the 2017 i-drive unit, so you have to remember going into that as well. The B&O sound system lacks substantial bass at low-mid volumes, but the gain is adjustable for each audio source in a hidden MMI setting (which you have to get activated via coding), the handling is a big step back stock for stock, as is how tight the suspension feels.

Some weak points:

-Sports-Diff fault codes (if you get a car with this option), the normal diff is more reliable

-The crank pulley likes to shred itself at around 50,000 miles, prepare for an OE replacement or go with a more expensive aftermarket dampened one like a Fluidamper. This damper actually fixes the 90* V6 lumpy idle (the engine doesn't have balance-shafts).

-The engine likes to drink at least 1QT of oil in between oil changes at higher miles (intervals are every 10,000 miles)

-The PCV likes to show signs of starting to go every 25k miles, but will last almost double that mileage until it really gets bad (smoke from exhaust pipe at idle, or oil smell from exhaust pipes). Dealers wont replace it under warranty until it triggers a CEL, which at that point you have smoke from the exhaust pipe).

-the aftermarket is slow for this car beyond basic bolt-ons. Single turbo conversions have happened in the past, with great results (135+ traps on Dragy), but no true bolt-on sold over-the-counter kits just yet. If you rely on the stock blower, it seems limited to 127mph traps full weight (the thing is a lard at 3,900lbs), but have been known to run high 10's/low 11's on standard street tires thanks to AWD with all of the bolt-ons/tune/E85 or race fuels. Do some weight reduction, but is it worth that 1 or 2 mph in traps? If you do this, know that intake air temperatures in that reach or extend beyond 70*C is considered normal...

-the front control arms (like all Audi's with this 4-link virtual axis suspension) like's to go through bushings every 30-40k miles.

[superbrew]

Have you driven your M3 in the winter? I am in NH and have had RWD cars for over 10 years, 3 in the M3, without issue, as long as you have good snow tires. I once drove around a stuck Jeep at a ski area in my 135. He had all seasons, I had snows.
AWD will not help you turn or stop better in the snow. Snow tires are absolutely required regardless of drivetrain. I actually think RWD might be better in the snow because you can't go as fast.

[spool twice]

actually, some AWD systems do help you stop and turn better in foul weather by how the engine brake forces are applied when off throttle, which Quattro does as its a permanent AWD system and the latest unit isn't torque sensing (TORSEN), but a crown-gear based so it's always mechanically "active" in distributing forces to stabilize the car at all times, on or off throttle.

[sna66]

Originally Posted by ByeFelicia

Get a low budget daily.

Subie

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Move

[jmg]

Why suffer for 3 seasons when you can't even go that fast during that 1 season anyway?


Former B7 S4 owner here. Never going back. If you are really concerned, I'd just get a used Subaru for winter and garage that beautiful M3 for when the weather is fair. Otherwise just drive it in the snow. Many members here do. Clear bra it if you want to.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Well that's the obvious answer. Love mine as a daily.

Both the A4 and S4 have the same Torsen awd setup that's 40/60 front/rear. The S4 can be optioned with a rear LSD. The A3/S3/RS3 (and Golf R) are the Haldex ones. 90/10 split.

The GTI is still the better choice though.

In Dynamic mode, the RS3 haldex can be locked 50/50. Still not a "true" Quattro though .

[boglehead]

I have also been looking even more economical and browsing A4's with the nice 5 spoke rotors.

They actually look pretty nice.

As this:
https://www.coventrymotorcar.com/lis...-sedan-4-dr-3/

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Was this not a consideration when you got the F80?

[boglehead]

Originally Posted by BMWModel3

Was this not a consideration when you got the F80?

I just feel like I constantly catch myself trying to preserve the car like a cookie. Really starts to dampen the experience and enjoyment.

So I figured if I just got a sport a4 like the one listed above, I could be content and just drive the snot out of it.

[weavingtraffic]

Originally Posted by boglehead

I just feel like I constantly catch myself trying to preserve the car like a cookie.

Different strokes for different folks... Although in my mind an equal comparison to this is like not having sex with your SO - leaving her in better shape for the next one.

Jokes aside, I get your dilemma. If you don't want to ruin a nice car in the wintertime, get a beater. Plenty of options out there. Hell, I rocked a $1100 180k+ mile 98 a4 avant for a while. Loved it so much I still drove it when I didn't need to.

IMHO: dont sell the M and waste your money to be met with instant regret.

[RickFLM4]

You think about ditching the F80 for something else quite a bit it seems?

[Suds]

I replaced my S4 with an M4. Both are great cars.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

You think about ditching the F80 for something else quite a bit it seems?

Something something depreciation curve something something resale value

[LukeM15]

Downgrade to the Max. It should had been from S4>M3

[Racer20]

I have a B9 S4 and a guy who works for me has a B8.5. The B9 is a poor replacement for an M3 if you're looking for something that's fun to drive. It's nicer in many areas, and drives really well, but it's a bit soft around the edges to be truly fun.

The B8.5 is definitely more fun and reminds me a bit of a beefed up version of my ZHP. Not as nice on the inside as the B9, or even as my F80 IMO.

If fun is priority, B8.5. If "nice car" is your priority, B9. Neither of them will be close to an M car though.

[Damage Inc]

Drive the M in the winter. Its not like its a F car or high end exotic. Its a 3 series on steroids. It will depreciate if in mint condition or average condition about the same.

Its a mental game. Get over it.

I drove all my M cars through Mich winters with dedicated snows. Unless you're living in the rural wooded area, most driving is from the office to starbucks then home, which is salted and slush.

I like to drive a fun car 7 days a week. Rather have M3 with snows, dealing with bad weather 10 times a year, then enjoying the M3 the other 355 days per year. Then buy a boring car for those 10 times a year, then have a boring ride the other 355 days a year.

Its kinda like my buddy who bought a pick up truck for transporting stuff. How many times a year do you need to transport drywall from home depot? 2? Rent a truck.

[Narcosis]

Originally Posted by ByeFelicia

Get a low budget daily.

This. When my father passed away I inherited his 2007 Ford Escape, which curently has 45k miles on the clock. A most excellent vehicle for these Wisconsin winters.

[Alessandro]

dont do it you will be disappointed after 2 weeks or sooner

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Narcosis

This. When my father passed away I inherited his 2007 Ford Escape, which curently has 45k miles on the clock. A most excellent vehicle for these Wisconsin winters.

That's a pretty cool way to honor your dad too.