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      02-18-2015, 08:47 PM   #23
OneRib
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The CCB price always throws off the as tested price. I commented about this exact thing in another thread. I know BMW released most press cars with the CCB's. Its a shame because from almost all accounts the standard brakes are great and a big step up from previous gen M3 brakes.

You have to read reviews with some level of intelligence. Does any car enthusiast use Consumer Reports as their be all end all in reviews? No, because their interests are not aligned with ours. Even dedicated auto journalists can look at a car from a different perspective. I'll read for enjoyment, but I don't care if a Corvette or 911 beats the M3/4 in a review. I need back seats, the vette has none and the 911's are fit only for a small child.

Now if reviews consistently come back saying terrible brakes, fussy peaky engine, disjointed suspension setup, or poor fit and finish; I'll be concerned. Those are not things to expect. The M3 is too important to the BMW brand image for it to be a dog. Can it be beaten, of course. It may get passed by this gen C63 or ATS-V but it won't be embarrassed.

Most of the negativity revolves around the electric steering (sorry but hydraulic is going the way of the dinosaur so deal with it), turbo engine (personal preference), too many settings (one of my favorite features and you get two M buttons to store your favorite settings), and price (duh, options are at your discretion, current M3 well priced to competition).

These are nonissues in my book. It comes down to subjective feel. That's an individual decision.

BTW, the biggest negative to the M3/M4 is the botched production schedule so far.

Last edited by OneRib; 02-18-2015 at 09:41 PM..
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      02-18-2015, 08:48 PM   #24
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C&D is probably not a good source for a positive take on the new M3/4. In fact, they pulled it from their 10 best list this year for the first time in 2 decades.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...news&desktop=1

But really though, who cares? As long as you like it, their opinion doesn't matter. The direction bmw went was to appeal to a larger crowd with the new M3/4. I think they've succeeded.
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      02-18-2015, 09:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRib View Post
The CCB price always throws off the as tested price. I commented about this exact thing in another thread. I know BMW released most press cars with the CCB's. Its a shame because from almost all accounts the standard brakes are great and a big step up from previous gen M3 brakes.

You have to read reviews with some level of intelligence. Does any car enthusiast use Consumer Reports as their be all end all in reviews? No, because their interests are not aligned with ours. Even dedicated auto journalists can look at a car from a different perspective. I'll read for enjoyment, but I don't care if a Corvette or 911 beats the M3/4 in a review. I need back seats, the vetted has none and the 911's are fit only for a small child.

Now if reviews consistently come back saying terrible brakes, fussy peaky engine, disjointed suspension setup, or poor fit and finish; I'll be concerned. Those are not things to expect. The M3 is too important to the BMW brand image for it to be a dog. Can it be beaten, of course. It may get passed by this gen C63 or ATS-V but it won't be embarrassed.

Most of the negativity revolves around the electric steering (sorry but hydraulic is going the way of the dinosaur so deal with it), turbo engine (personal preference), too many settings (one of my favorite features and you get two M buttons to store your favorite settings), and price (duh, options are at your discretion, current M3 well priced to competition).

These are nonissues in my book. It comes down to subjective feel. That's an individual decision.

BTW, the biggest negative to the M3/M4 is the botched production schedule so far.
True, which is why the M3 is best for me. I think it's the best all around car in its class. For lack of a better term, it is a jack of all trades car. I prefer its looks over the ATS V by far, even if it ends up being better performance wise, I can't feel bad about my choice. The Merc has a real good shot of taking this, but I don't think that the price is going to be there. They may start at a close price, but you're probably going to end up having to really pay for the things you want. It definitely won't start for less, and if it does, color me surprised. I do wish they didn't use round vents... Reminds me of the old 1.8T Audi TT.

I think in three years, depending on where the market is, and after everything is said and done, I might look at the Merc as a potential car to switch to. That is the only car I see in this class that I would even consider. No one is taking the ATS V seriously, and it's going to take a lot for people to do so.
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      02-18-2015, 09:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Vectors2final View Post
True, which is why the M3 is best for me. I think it's the best all around car in its class. For lack of a better term, it is a jack of all trades car. I prefer its looks over the ATS V by far, even if it ends up being better performance wise, I can't feel bad about my choice. The Merc has a real good shot of taking this, but I don't think that the price is going to be there. They may start at a close price, but you're probably going to end up having to really pay for the things you want. It definitely won't start for less, and if it does, color me surprised. I do wish they didn't use round vents... Reminds me of the old 1.8T Audi TT.

I think in three years, depending on where the market is, and after everything is said and done, I might look at the Merc as a potential car to switch to. That is the only car I see in this class that I would even consider. No one is taking the ATS V seriously, and it's going to take a lot for people to do so.
I generally agree. My complaints about the ATS-V are the styling isn't as good, the transmission isn't as good, the interior space isn't as good, and CUE is an inferior infotainment system. Nothing about the performance will change those things and so the M3 beats it for me.

C63AMG has an inferior transmission and the rear end styling isn't for me. If the performance is significantly better, I might consider it, but until they can make a C AMG car that can get around a corner I'm out.

RC-F. Well lets see, hmmm, can't think of any issue with it at all except that its fatter than Kim Kardashian's butt and has more plastic in it than Nicki Minaj. Plus the interior is tight in the back.

Audi needs an RS4 over here. They are missing a golden opportunity in the performance segment. The S4 is not a player in this game.

M3/M4 is the decathlete of the group.
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      02-18-2015, 09:54 PM   #27
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Agreed. It seems to do a little bit of everything well, while others are doing a few things well.


If an RS4 Avant came here, I'd be in deep shit.
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      02-18-2015, 10:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vectors2final View Post
Agreed. It seems to do a little bit of everything well, while others are doing a few things well.


If an RS4 Avant came here, I'd be in deep shit.
Not me, I'm not a wagon hater, but I would prefer the sedan. My brother is a big Audi guy and has an S6. It's a fantastic car and will give the 550 fits head to head.

But Audi drives me crazy for two main reasons.
1- They take way to long to refresh their cars. Some like this because you can buy one and keep it forever without it getting dated. I find it to be a negative because its not a bespoke handmade exotic. It's a production car that starts to become dated (see current A4, A5, and Q7).
2- They won't bring over enough RS cars and the S line is a weird half measure. Better than the top range BMW or MB performance wise, but not up to snuff with AMG or M. Why no RS4 or RS6? Maybe because they put too much money into RS cars to make a business case for the lower level cars.
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      02-18-2015, 11:33 PM   #29
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Yeah, that is a huge downside... They've taken way too much time to release the B9.
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