F82 M4 Worth the Extra Money over E92 M3?

[mictang]

I know, I know... this has been discussed like a million times before and I have read most the posts, yes the M4 is overall a better car which I agree.

BUT... money is kinda an issue here and I am trying to justify the price difference between the two. Where I live, a 2011 E92 M3 DCT costs 350K and 2014 F82 M4 DCT is 550k, 40% more expensive that is.
(DCT is the only option in my region so that sucks, but no MT to further complicated the question here.)

And another things is many are upgrading from the E92 to F82, but I will buying either for the first time so I am not gonna miss one or the other.

Can someone persuade me to fork over the extra money for the F82 or should I use the money for something else i.e. investment/saving for future car? Are there less obvious reasons that makes the M4 worth the money?




Another thing that I am thinking about but trying not to put into the equation here is I might be able to afford a 991 911 in the future (900k for 991.2 C2S) and it seem like a good plan to go from the M3 to 911, whereas M4 to 911 wouldn't be as much of an upgrade, also depreaction might bite kinda hard.

Any input will be greatly appreciated!

[mjposner]

You need to factor in repair costs (older car = more $$ on average). Is their and insurance difference (inline 6 vs V8). Fuel economy on F82 is better, I got 16/19 on my E93, I get 17/25 on my F83 (but I drive sport plus/dct 3 all the time). If you care about fuel economy you can easily average 22+ on the F8x. E9x sounds better, F8x is faster (but traction is an issue w/o comp pack). Can't go wrong with either car.

[BimmerMan33]

My suggestion:
Get e92 M3 for now. Buying any M car is about experiencing an M product and the e92 (only V8 M3 ever) is an experience in its own!
Also e92 is NA, F8x is turbo and all future M3s will be turbo/turbo and hybrid. So experience the NA V8 now while you may find a clean one easily!

Not ideal comparing a NA V8 to an I6 turbo as both drive so different!
Also depends on what kind of commute/driving you do! E92 would be fun if you are able to rev it out regularly but F8x would be more enjoyable in city driving/traffic.

Both are great in their own way!
Have you test driven them both?

[mictang]

Originally Posted by mjposner

You need to factor in repair costs (older car = more $$ on average). Is their and insurance difference (inline 6 vs V8). Fuel economy on F82 is better, I got 16/19 on my E93, I get 17/25 on my F83 (but I drive sport plus/dct 3 all the time). If you care about fuel economy you can easily average 22+ on the F8x. E9x sounds better, F8x is faster (but traction is an issue w/o comp pack). Can't go wrong with either car.

That's true, I know I won't regret either, but that also makes me struggling trying to decide on which to get.

Insurance isn't much of a different here but I will end up paying about 2.5 times annual tax for the V8 over the F82 which is in the same tax group with 325i lol.

Fuel economy isn't a huge factor in fact the M3 i test drove today had the same average consumption over last 3000 miles/ 5000 km as my 325i, I do like the ability for a car to go at least 600km on highways in one tank so I would like the M4 better just for this, less for how much I have to pay for gas. (I barely make 26 on the highway with the 325i, going pretty fast, and about 17 combined averaging 35kph/21mph, the m3 were the same at slightly faster 44kph/27mph)

You see, in all of the above points the M4 is better, but it just can't seem to make enough of a difference for me.

I was going to say repair isn't going to make a huge difference because my region has cheap labor, but I just realized the S65 has higher maintenance costs (frequent plug changes, expensive 10w60 oil, etc.) so this is going to be more than a minor point, and it got me leaning toward the M4 a little more.

[nicknaz]

Can you get an e46 m3 csl in your region? Or did e36 m3 come with 320hp from factory? Just get those!!

[mictang]

Originally Posted by BimmerMan33

My suggestion:
Get e92 M3 for now. Buying any M car is about experiencing an M product and the e92 (only V8 M3 ever) is an experience in its own!
Also e92 is NA, F8x is turbo and all future M3s will be turbo/turbo and hybrid. So experience the NA V8 now while you may find a clean one easily!

Not ideal comparing a NA V8 to an I6 turbo as both drive so different!
Also depends on what kind of commute/driving you do! E92 would be fun if you are able to rev it out regularly but F8x would be more enjoyable in city driving/traffic.

Both are great in their own way!
Have you test driven them both?

I am looking at the M3s mostly right now so more likely or not I will end up buying the M3.

Only had a chance to drive the M3 yet and only thing I didn't like was the jerky DCT on low speed. I don't commute so it's just quick grocery/dinner runs around town and 1 hour to long distance drives to neighboring cities, I guess I would suffer the jerky transmission maybe 1/4 of my total driving conditions and I believe that's something one can live with?

Anyway thanks for the advice and I'll post when I actually buy the car letting everyone know.

[mictang]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Can you get an e46 m3 csl in your region? Or did e36 m3 come with 320hp from factory? Just get those!!

The first mass imported model were the regular E46/E38 so no, there are like 10 E46 M3s out there from private imports and such, they are pretty much collectible items here.

Speaking of alternatives I just also realized the RS5 was in fact available, but 10% more expensive when new and also almost close to F82 money for a 2012, very weird in my mind.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by mictang

The first mass imported model were the regular E46/E38 so no, there are like 10 E46 M3s out there from private imports and such, they are pretty much collectible items here.

Speaking of alternatives I just also realized the RS5 was in fact available, but 10% more expensive when new and also almost close to F82 money for a 2012, very weird in my mind.

At the end of the day, I think you should get whichever connects with you more.

I personally think that if you don’t track your car, you should get the V8 e9x because of the sounds and hydraulic steering making it be more engaging at low speeds and in traffic.

In my opinion F8x does too good of a job at being dual purpose, and feels like f3x in traffic. If you don’t use the big power and excellent engine cooling, you won’t see the best benefits of the new platform.

[mitch32]

Both are reliable, e92 has a 'bearing' issue but its probably because of oil service intervals.

F82 is newer, e92 might go up in value before the F82 ever does but thats total speculation.

Having owned both, e92 engine doesnt feel as crazy as the F82 but man its a hell of an experience. The thing revs up so smoothly its unlike any v8 I've ever driven, smooth as an inline-6. The steering F82 vs e92 is similar in terms of feel (e46 and e36 is far better) but turn in is lighting fast on a F82 compared to the e92 (stock vs stock). F82 is a bigger more usable car, its ridiculous how big the trunk and rear seats are compared to other M3s. F82 is probably 2 times the price of a e92. I'd go based on your budget, many people on this forum went from a e92 to F82 for a reason. I test drove the F82 and basically said goodbye to my e92 within the same day and I wasnt even in the market to buy a car I just wanted to do a test drive.

[hellokitty]

Drive both and see.

Both have their pros and cons since I have both an E93 and F80.

E93 has been modded to hell with everything you can do suspension wise except for LSD. Honestly I think the E93 is more of a hoot to drive lol

[AO08BAS]

As someone who has own E92s for 4 years moving into an F80 ZCP and also an E36 M3 back in the early 2000's I can tell you now the F80 is better in almost every way.

It's much quicker in the streets and on track than the E92. Mostly thanks to the instant torque with the turbos.

Interior quality is light years ahead and probably the biggest difference just how much better the car looks and feels on the inside.

Looks wise I would say from all the M3's the E92 has aged the worst. In fact the E46s look nicer and newer to me now than an E92. And the F80 in most peoples opinions is the best looking M3/4 yet.

The only thing I would say the E92 trumps the current car is engine sound. I miss the sound of the V8 for sure but I feel the above points more than make up for it.

OP taking the above into account I would say if the F80 is in your budget then its a no brainer but if not then go with an E92 and you wont be disappointed as its an amazing M car and great value. Either way you'll have a great time.

[N1rve]

F82 M4!

The E90 interior looks really dated IMO. The torque figure from the F82 is incredible, especially since it comes on really early (1850 RPM!) and that torque is something you can play with more often if you daily drive it.

Since you mention money is an issue, the F82 is more fuel efficient than the E90 (V8 vs I6), and fuel will cost you more in the long run. The older the car, the more repairs you'll encounter.

So far with the F82, not many issues reported and some people are saying it's one of the most reliable M cars ever built. You'll hear the crank hub thing but not many people experience it.

The only thing I would give for the E90 is sound -- but other than that I prefer the F82 over the E90 any day.

[SYT_Shadow]

I have two E9X M3s and one F80 CS.

I would never pay 200k more for the F8X generation than the E9X car.

If both are only used on the street the advantages of the F8X generation are pretty slim to me. On the street either is in the go-to-jail category after a few seconds of pushing the car, but the E9X has much better steering and sounds significantly better.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I have two E9X M3s and one F80 CS.

I would never pay 200k more for the F8X generation than the E9X car.

If both are only used on the street the advantages of the F8X generation are pretty slim to me. On the street either is in the go-to-jail category after a few seconds of pushing the car, but the E9X has much better steering and sounds significantly better.

I disagree
The tq monster s55 will feel dramatically faster on the street where most likely the car will be driven ie mid-range
On the track the e92 is much better where you can rev it out
Try passing a van going up a hill in 4th at 2500 in the e92

[Tall Tom Cruise]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I disagree
The tq monster s55 will feel dramatically faster on the street where most likely the car will be driven ie mid-range
On the track the e92 is much better where you can rev it out
Try passing a van going up a hill in 4th at 2500 in the e92

This. I drove my buddy's E92 last week. My initial thoughts -- the lack of torque was depressing. On the street my F82 felt light years faster because of this. That said, once I took it on the highway and revved it out to 8k through multiple gears I had a sh*t eating grin on my face.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I disagree
The tq monster s55 will feel dramatically faster on the street where most likely the car will be driven ie mid-range
On the track the e92 is much better where you can rev it out
Try passing a van going up a hill in 4th at 2500 in the e92

Perhaps unlike you I own M3s of both generations and drive them back to back frequently, including at the track.

The S55 is not a 'torque monster'. On 7th at highway speeds I have to downshift in the same instances as the E9X due to the massively longer gearing the S55 has vs the S65.


That said, there is this strange device called a gearbox. It comes in all cars and allows the driver to do really strange things, like decide that if you have a car that wants to be revved out you need to use the appropriate gears.
In recent years manufacturers have, when faced with dropping IQs and handicapped drivers, introduced fancy automatics which can do this by themselves!!!

In general I suggest people stop looking at excel sheets and go to the track, sometimes they will even learn how to drive and it'll avoid them making foolish statements.

[For the record I have 6MT and DCT M3s and love all of them]

[whitedc5]

in short, yes

[Humdizzle]

F8x is prettier, faster, lighter, and much more powerful. Better ride and better gas mileage too. Plus you can't get a carbon roof on the e90, but you can on the f80

But the E92 (especially a clean ZCP) is going to be a much better investment right now.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Perhaps unlike you I own M3s of both generations and drive them back to back frequently, including at the track.

The S55 is not a 'torque monster'. On 7th at highway speeds I have to downshift in the same instances as the E9X due to the massively longer gearing the S55 has vs the S65.


That said, there is this strange device called a gearbox. It comes in all cars and allows the driver to do really strange things, like decide that if you have a car that wants to be revved out you need to use the appropriate gears.
In recent years manufacturers have, when faced with dropping IQs and handicapped drivers, introduced fancy automatics which can do this by themselves!!!

In general I suggest people stop looking at excel sheets and go to the track, sometimes they will even learn how to drive and it'll avoid them making foolish statements.

[For the record I have 6MT and DCT M3s and love all of them]

So did I my friend
The v8 in the previous generation was anemic at low revs
I can easily pass people in 7th gear with 500+ wtq even around 60 on the highway
If you want to you can downshift the e92 to like 5th and get the same result
Facts are facts buddy
The s55 is simply the better engine

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by mictang

I know, I know... this has been discussed like a million times before and I have read most the posts, yes the M4 is overall a better car which I agree.

BUT... money is kinda an issue here and I am trying to justify the price difference between the two. Where I live, a 2011 E92 M3 DCT costs 350K and 2014 F82 M4 DCT is 550k, 40% more expensive that is.
(DCT is the only option in my region so that sucks, but no MT to further complicated the question here.)

And another things is many are upgrading from the E92 to F82, but I will buying either for the first time so I am not gonna miss one or the other.

Can someone persuade me to fork over the extra money for the F82 or should I use the money for something else i.e. investment/saving for future car? Are there less obvious reasons that makes the M4 worth the money?


Another thing that I am thinking about but trying not to put into the equation here is I might be able to afford a 991 911 in the future (900k for 991.2 C2S) and it seem like a good plan to go from the M3 to 911, whereas M4 to 911 wouldn't be as much of an upgrade, also depreaction might bite kinda hard.

Any input will be greatly appreciated!

It is more a preference thing if you care little about interior quality. The E90/E92 won't hold up as well compared to the more recent F80/F82. Then there is the V8 vs the I6. The S65 has well known "issues" with it and you absolutely need to do some preventive measures to prevent problems from propping up. The S55 is different and aside from the some small issues that seem to effect a small percentage of the owners, the engine has been solid and has torque all over it's power band.

The other thing is, as with most that seem to report about the F8x M-DCT, the only reason why it jerks and hesitates is because of your driving behavior. I have never had issues with jerking in my M3 and I owned two, 2015 and 2018. M-DCT behaves the way it does because it does a remarkable job at replicating a 6MT. If you do not properly throttle your gas correctly it will jerk. Don't treat the tranny like an Torque Auto like so many tend to (who then goes on to complain about it). Yes, the earlier years had some more jerking but firmware updates have smoothed it out more or less at this point. I updated my 2015 M4 before selling so the new owner won't have to go through with that if he is not used to it. I never heard back from him telling me he is having trouble with the M-DCT either.

I can tell you about one thing however. At this point in time, you seem to made up your mind already regarding the matter so, there isn't going to be anyone here that can change it. If you want the E92 M3 then just get it if you are unsure about the F82 M4. The 991 power delivery tends to be more linear, the F8x tends to be way more brutish on that front.

That is also why I dislike these threads. If you have made your mind, then just get what you have thought about beforehand. Asking us to change your mind tends to not turn out too well as the thread just devolves into a shouting match.

[mictang]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and inputs, i read them all and they are greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Arcades

It is more a preference thing if you care little about interior quality.
......
The S65 has well known "issues" with it and you absolutely need to do some preventive measures to prevent problems from propping up.
......
I can tell you about one thing however. At this point in time, you seem to made up your mind already regarding the matter so, there isn't going to be anyone here that can change it. If you want the E92 M3 then just get it if you are unsure about the F82 M4.
......
That is also why I dislike these threads. If you have made your mind, then just get what you have thought about beforehand. Asking us to change your mind tends to not turn out too well as the thread just devolves into a shouting match.

Your above comments caught my attention so I want to respond and also maybe give others some reference.

I actually have a F11 5 series and a regular E90 so I knew the new chassis has so much better interior, If i simply had the money to spend and no to care I probably would just get the F82 for the better interior alone.

So yes I knew very well the F82 is an overall better car and what I wasn’t so sure about is if I should pay 40% more for it. It’s more of a personal judgement(preference) rather than factual debate so I don’t see why this would lead to a “shouting match”.

I guess what i really wanted to hear was from people with real-world experience on both cars shedding some light on things that aren’t obvious like the power delivery, interior, maintenance costs, etc.

Moving on...

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I have two E9X M3s and one F80 CS.

I would never pay 200k more for the F8X generation than the E9X car.

If both are only used on the street the advantages of the F8X generation are pretty slim to me. On the street either is in the go-to-jail category after a few seconds of pushing the car, but the E9X has much better steering and sounds significantly better.

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I disagree
The tq monster s55 will feel dramatically faster on the street where most likely the car will be driven ie mid-range
On the track the e92 is much better where you can rev it out
Try passing a van going up a hill in 4th at 2500 in the e92

I noticed the lack of low end torque when i drove the M3, it didn’t feel like a 420hp car, but it kicked nicely after 7000 or so rpm with this surge in power. So I would say you guys are both right, S55 would “feel” much faster and in reality faster but not huge difference.


Oh and for those who might be in similar shoes like me, I just want to mention I don’t have to pay as much more in repair and maintenance costs for the E92 as labor is cheap in my region anyways. With my experience owning the regular E90 I am prepared for somewhat often nuisances here and there.

I have the money to pay for the extra gas, tax, and insurance (again insurance is minor difference in my region so check those info from where you live before you buy) too just wasn’t sure about coughing up the extra cash for the car itself, no one should buy a used performance car spending all of the budget I just want to add.


I am searching for the E92 quite extensively now and it does seem to be a good time to buy them as the last few recent year low mileage examples are fading away and price has somewhat bottomed out, the F82’s price is quite stiff in my area due to it being such a nice car.

[pikkagtr]

The s55 is in fact quite a LOt faster in a straight line
You can easily , for not much $$$ , trap 120+mph in the 1/4
Simple flash will bet that and then some