Bootmod3 non-ZCP / ZCP (Comp) / CS / BM3-CS / BM3 STG1 91OCT dyno results

[Spiff7]

Originally Posted by dpgfunk

Very confused with this write up. BM3 doesn't do anything to your steering or suspension. Coding does...

That's exactly what I was thinking. But then figured I was wrong since I have never done any tuning or coding, so what do I know.

[BMthusiast]

Originally Posted by gspannu

Great write up, as I wrote earlier... a couple of more question.

During your comparisons...

1) What burble values did you use while doing these comparisons? OEM or OTS or custom.
2) Did you make any adjustments to the Boost by Gear Reduction? Or as default?

Thanks...

For burble I have it custom with Sport at .7 sec / 5 agg and Sport + at 1.7 sec / 10 agg. Sport flaps open. Boost reduction % for 1st gear is 60% and 2nd gear at 40%. 3rd gear and up have no reduction.

[BMthusiast]

Originally Posted by dpgfunk

Very confused with this write up. BM3 doesn't do anything to your steering or suspension. Coding does...

I'm very far from an expert. I'm just about a year into my first M car and pretty new to the whole tuning/coding/dme/ecu details. From what I know with my experience the car feels completely different in Stock, CS, and GTS. On the bm3 maps menu when I login it says for CS, "This map has the M4 CS stock performance calibration." and under GTS, also, "This map has the M4 GTS stock performance calibration." I'm pretty sure that when you flash CS to your DME you're getting the same calibrations that are set in an actual CS car that you'd get off a BMW dealer. GTS is obviously limited though because of having no water injection in a stock F80. What's not included in the DME flash is the transmission. You have to separately flash the CS or GTS transmission to the car's ECU to get the shifting aspect of a CS or GTS car. All I can tell you is that with my personal experience I notice major driving differences in each of the calibrations well beyond throttle boost.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Kuato2084

I'm very far from an expert. I'm just about a year into my first M car and pretty new to the whole tuning/coding/dme/ecu details. From what I know with my experience the car feels completely different in Stock, CS, and GTS. On the bm3 maps menu when I login it says for CS, "This map has the M4 CS stock performance calibration." and under GTS, also, "This map has the M4 GTS stock performance calibration." I'm pretty sure that when you flash CS to your DME you're getting the same calibrations that are set in an actual CS car that you'd get off a BMW dealer. GTS is obviously limited though because of having no water injection in a stock F80. What's not included in the DME flash is the transmission. You have to separately flash the CS or GTS transmission to the car's ECU to get the shifting aspect of a CS or GTS car. All I can tell you is that with my personal experience I notice major driving differences in each of the calibrations well beyond throttle boost.

My understanding is that the flash is motor related only, not steering, diff, trans, nor suspension. I could be wrong.

[dpgfunk]

Originally Posted by Kuato2084

I'm very far from an expert. I'm just about a year into my first M car and pretty new to the whole tuning/coding/dme/ecu details. From what I know with my experience the car feels completely different in Stock, CS, and GTS. On the bm3 maps menu when I login it says for CS, "This map has the M4 CS stock performance calibration." and under GTS, also, "This map has the M4 GTS stock performance calibration." I'm pretty sure that when you flash CS to your DME you're getting the same calibrations that are set in an actual CS car that you'd get off a BMW dealer. GTS is obviously limited though because of having no water injection in a stock F80. What's not included in the DME flash is the transmission. You have to separately flash the CS or GTS transmission to the car's ECU to get the shifting aspect of a CS or GTS car. All I can tell you is that with my personal experience I notice major driving differences in each of the calibrations well beyond throttle boost.

Sorry to break it to you but the difference in suspension and steering is all in your head. The engine tune is different than transmission flash, EDC coding, and steering coding. BM3 offers a GTS transmission flash, but they don't offer CS/ZCP EDC or CS/GTS steering coding.

Furthermore, the GTS does not have EDC - it's on factory coilovers, hence no EDC settings exists for it. So it's not possible for you to feel a difference with a "GTS suspension flash."

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by dpgfunk

Very confused with this write up. BM3 doesn't do anything to your steering or suspension. Coding does...

+1

I was like WTF!? Lol

[BMthusiast]

Originally Posted by dpgfunk

Sorry to break it to you but the difference in suspension and steering is all in your head. The engine tune is different than transmission flash, EDC coding, and steering coding. BM3 offers a GTS transmission flash, but they don't offer CS/ZCP EDC or CS/GTS steering coding.

Furthermore, the GTS does not have EDC - it's on factory coilovers, hence no EDC settings exists for it. So it's not possible for you to feel a difference with a "GTS suspension flash."

Thanks for the clarification. I asked a rep at PTF and he confirmed this too. But honestly, I notice a difference in the way the car feels in the various maps. Maybe it is all in my head, but there's a noticeable difference to me. Especially the difference between Comfort steering in Stock and Comfort steering in GTS. For some reason GTS steering just feels heavier, but obviously the ECU didn't change. So the differences I feel are either 100% in my mind or the steering functionality is actually affected (in some way) by having different engine performance calibrations mapped. Either way I'm glad to learn more about all this stuff and understand how it all works. And the car is definitely awesome with bm3 flashed.

[LYTSOUT]

I have an admittedly VERY noob question, and I think I already know the answer...but just for clarification...

The gains of a ZCP with a BM3 Stage 1 will not be any greater than a base F80 with BM3 Stage 1, right?

It's my understanding that the ZCP makes it's extra 19hp from the factory via software (IIRC the engines are otherwise identical so there's no upgraded hardware on the ZCP) so I'd assume that 19hp factory advantage disappears once it's flashed.

The reason I ask is b/c I'm considering upgrading my F30 to an F80, and a ZCP is one of the options I'm thinking about...but assuming I flash any car I ultimately buy, the primary benefit of the ZCP really just ends up being suspension, exhaust, etc. And to dip a little bit off topic, I'd also strongly consider the MP HAS on whatever I buy so, at that point, the suspension benefit of ZCP is just the dampers/sways (not the springs). If that's the case, the ROI of the ZCP over a base F80 starts to fade somewhat, right? Or am I missing something?

P.S. At least I get props for using the search function, right??

[gspannu]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

I have an admittedly VERY noob question, and I think I already know the answer...but just for clarification...

The gains of a ZCP with a BM3 Stage 1 will not be any greater than a base F80 with BM3 Stage 1, right?

It's my understanding that the ZCP makes it's extra 19hp from the factory via software (IIRC the engines are otherwise identical so there's no upgraded hardware on the ZCP) so I'd assume that 19hp factory advantage disappears once it's flashed.

The reason I ask is b/c I'm considering upgrading my F30 to an F80, and a ZCP is one of the options I'm thinking about...but assuming I flash any car I ultimately buy, the primary benefit of the ZCP really just ends up being suspension, exhaust, etc. And to dip a little bit off topic, I'd also strongly consider the MP HAS on whatever I buy so, at that point, the suspension benefit of ZCP is just the dampers/sways (not the springs). If that's the case, the ROI of the ZCP over a base F80 starts to fade somewhat, right? Or am I missing something?

P.S. At least I get props for using the search function, right??

Not a direct answer to your question.... but additional information.

Are you looking to get a new F80/F82? If yes....
As I heard (at least in the UK), the base F80/82 is no longer available. Only the F8x competition pack (or ZCP) is available to order now.

[M4BUM]

Originally Posted by Halim@HCP

We don't do much 1/4 mile here. We test a lot of 100-200 km/h.
Stock is around 9.3-9.4 sec
ZCP 8.8-9.0
CS 8.2-8.6
BM3 CS 8.0-8.3
BM3 STG1 6.8-7.0

tried it today and yes stock is around 9.2-9.5
but i was a little bit disappointed from STG1 which was around 7.4-7.6
a time around 7.0 would be nice

i flashed v8.7 (98 RON) and drive with shell 100octane

i have the feeling that my last flash with v8.2 was a little bit faster
the burbles are a little bit quieter too

[IMG][/IMG]

[BMthusiast]

Originally Posted by LYTSOUT

I have an admittedly VERY noob question, and I think I already know the answer...but just for clarification...

The gains of a ZCP with a BM3 Stage 1 will not be any greater than a base F80 with BM3 Stage 1, right?

I'm still getting to know bm3 and how it all works and from what I've seen the hp gains you'd get in buying a zcp vs non zcp are irrelevant if you flash a Stage 1 tune. It overwrites what zcp had the same as it overwrites stock. I had thought that bm3 directly affects other driving calibrations but it doesn't, so buying a zcp does get you those adjusted "Competition" calibrations in steering, exhaust note, and mdm etc but you could also get those same calibrations (or CS/GTS calibrations) custom mapped to the ecu on a stock F8x after you buy it. There's a guy on these forums based out of North London, UK that's a custom tuner who has OEM ZCP/CS/GTS ecu calibrations named Henry (@henweee on instagram). He can do the ecu tune remotely and I don't think he charges too much. Right now I just have a bm3 GTS engine flash, bm3 GTS transmission flash, and custom burble so I'm thinking of contacting Henry to get GTS steering, GTS mdm, and GTS rear diff.

[M-Pilot]

Halim@HCP

Stupid question but does CS+ require a minimum octane level or higher? I have been using it on our shitty CA 91oct and it seems fine but haven't logged it yet. Just curious if even CS+ is too much for Cali 91oct.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Halim@HCP

Stupid question but does CS+ require a minimum octane level or higher? I have been using it on our shitty CA 91oct and it seems fine but haven't logged it yet. Just curious if even CS+ is too much for Cali 91oct.

Try some boostane professional. I'm against all octane boosters...except for this one.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Try some boostane professional. I'm against all octane boosters...except for this one.

What is special about this one? I read some threads about octane boosters in the past and can't say I was so impressed especially after seeing that gross orange discoloration in the exhaust tips.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by cntzl

What is special about this one? I read some threads about octane boosters in the past and can't say I was so impressed especially after seeing that gross orange discoloration in the exhaust tips.

This one works...most of the others are junk. I haven't noticed any ill effects of it so far. I'll eventually be on E85.

[spool twice]

I thought it was pretty interesting on BMW's own OE approach to how different the tunes are. I originally had thought it was simply a boost curve revamp, which is only a small part of it.

Looking at the logs at 4,000rpm, it appears to be as follows:

Base: 14.89psi, 7.5* of timing
ZCP: 15.1psi, 6.5* of timing
CS: 16.83psi, 6.5* of timing

All seem to hit 14.4-14.5 AFR (.9798 lambda)

At 6,500rpm:
Base: 18.5psi, 9.5* of timing
ZCP: 16.7psi, 10* of timing
CS: 15.5psi, 10.5* of timing

All seem to target 12.3 AFR (.8367 lambda)

Things get more interesting as RPM climb, as the ZCP utilizes less boost and more timing, and the CS follows the same trend, although to a bigger degree, particularly in timing advancement. I wonder why BMW took such a different approach to boost and timing curves? It would appear the CS would be more susceptible to poor quality gas after 6,000rpm and beyond than the ZCP or base car as timing can approach 17* by 7,000rpm (vs 12* on the ZCP, and 11* on the base).

I wonder if the OE CS would benefit from some 93/100 octane mix to maximize that timing curve?

side note, Cyl *4 seems to be sleeping in all of the logs.

[Halim@HCP]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I thought it was pretty interesting on BMW's own OE approach to how different the tunes are. I originally had thought it was simply a boost curve revamp, which is only a small part of it.

Looking at the logs at 4,000rpm, it appears to be as follows:

Base: 14.89psi, 7.5* of timing
ZCP: 15.1psi, 6.5* of timing
CS: 16.83psi, 6.5* of timing

All seem to hit 14.4-14.5 AFR (.9798 lambda)

At 6,500rpm:
Base: 18.5psi, 9.5* of timing
ZCP: 16.7psi, 10* of timing
CS: 15.5psi, 10.5* of timing

All seem to target 12.3 AFR (.8367 lambda)

Things get more interesting as RPM climb, as the ZCP utilizes less boost and more timing, and the CS follows the same trend, although to a bigger degree, particularly in timing advancement. I wonder why BMW took such a different approach to boost and timing curves? It would appear the CS would be more susceptible to poor quality gas after 6,000rpm and beyond than the ZCP or base car as timing can approach 17* by 7,000rpm (vs 12* on the ZCP, and 11* on the base).

I wonder if the OE CS would benefit from some 93/100 octane mix to maximize that timing curve?

side note, Cyl *4 seems to be sleeping in all of the logs.

Pay attention to throttle as well. Non ZCP closes throttle where ZCP etc has it open

[rokkuchan]

I have a question in regards to the stock CS tune which I recently flashed just 2 days ago as my first tune. (Non-zcp).

It feels really good so far but I still would use the auto-stop-start function. I notice it's different now because when it resumes/starts it blips the throttle and I can't accelerate immediately and have to wait for 2 seconds for it to resume idle rpm (600-700?) to accelerate. If I accelerate immediately it clunks and jerks. I think the throttle blips to around 1500 when it starts the engine again at traffic.

This is annoying, I got honked a few times by impatient drivers as I wait for the 2 seconds for the rpm to go back to idle before I accelerate. Before flash it use to start and resumes at idle rpm so I can accelerate immediately and doesn't blip the throttle.

Is this actually normal in the CS m3s?

Thanks

[2 SLOW]

Originally Posted by rokkuchan

I have a question in regards to the stock CS tune which I recently flashed just 2 days ago as my first tune. (Non-zcp).

It feels really good so far but I still would use the auto-stop-start function. I notice it's different now because when it resumes/starts it blips the throttle and I can't accelerate immediately and have to wait for 2 seconds for it to resume idle rpm (600-700?) to accelerate. If I accelerate immediately it clunks and jerks. I think the throttle blips to around 1500 when it starts the engine again at traffic.

This is annoying, I got honked a few times by impatient drivers as I wait for the 2 seconds for the rpm to go back to idle before I accelerate. Before flash it use to start and resumes at idle rpm so I can accelerate immediately and doesn't blip the throttle.

Is this actually normal in the CS m3s?

Thanks

You are the first person I've ever heard of that uses the auto start and stop so I doubt anybody else has run into this issue.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Halim@HCP

Pay attention to throttle as well. Non ZCP closes throttle where ZCP etc has it open

Do you think it has more to do with how the ECU is calibrated and scaled vs actual throttle angle? meaning 80% on the standard ECU = 100%? If not, very odd they did that, how much surface area do you think is impacted at that angle vs. being 100%?

[Halim@HCP]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Do you think it has more to do with how the ECU is calibrated and scaled vs actual throttle angle? meaning 80% on the standard ECU = 100%? If not, very odd they did that, how much surface area do you think is impacted at that angle vs. being 100%?

No. The throttle angle value is real

BMW uses throttle to control boost. On ZCP/CS/GTS, bmw changes the boost control and how throttle acts. It gives you a more aggressive feeling.

[MuffinFlavored]

Originally Posted by Halim@HCP

Anyways, stock is dead now

We installed Pure stage 2+ turbos, Gintani Crankhub and FI Exhaust downpipes!

Let's see what this car can do

what ever came of this? i don't see it in the thread.