Clutch "judder"

GregW / Oregon · 03-02-2017, 12:07 PM

On my '15 6MT for several months now there is a "judder" (shudder?) often when slowly releasing the clutch from a stop at low rpms. I don't think it's a warped disc as it is not constant or consistent. I never do hard clutch drops and don't slip the clutch excessively.

Has anyone experienced something similar?

shiv.nandak · 03-02-2017, 12:15 PM

Its always been like that for me. One thing to note though, the ECU seems to add slight throttle input while doing this (anti stall?).

tito_gsx · 03-02-2017, 03:39 PM

I had this on my f30 6mt pretty bad and apparently its a known issue without a cure. When I got my f80 it was much better but there is noticeable judder....curious if this is normal as well.

gatorfast · 03-02-2017, 07:11 PM

Hmm my car doesn't do anything like this. Is the car on the verge of stalling while this is happening (ie rpms are too low)? What happens if you just let the clutch out slowly with no throttle does it still do it?

GregW / Oregon · 03-02-2017, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Hmm my car doesn't do anything like this. Is the car on the verge of stalling while this is happening (ie rpms are too low)? What happens if you just let the clutch out slowly with no throttle does it still do it?

No, in my case there is no fear of stalling - it just is rough as the clutch is disengaged.

scott13 · 03-03-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

On my '15 6MT for several months now there is a "judder" (shudder?) often when slowly releasing the clutch from a stop at low rpms. I don't think it's a warped disc as it is not constant or consistent. I never do hard clutch drops and don't slip the clutch excessively.

Has anyone experienced something similar?

Yeah, I've experienced the EXACT same thing on my '15 6MT. I've been driving stick for...well...a long time, so it's not like I suddenly forgot how to be smooth. It's weird because as you said, it's neither constant nor consistent and never feels like you're going to stall out. Just feels a little choppy from time to time for no obvious reason.

Not sure what's causing it, but glad to know I'm not the only one that's experienced this.

G35POPPEDMYCHERRY · 03-03-2017, 12:43 PM

from my experience in my g35. clutches are moody ass bitches

GregW / Oregon · 03-03-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott13

Yeah, I've experienced the EXACT same thing on my '15 6MT. I've been driving stick for...well...a long time, so it's not like I suddenly forgot how to be smooth. It's weird because as you said, it's neither constant nor consistent and never feels like you're going to stall out. Just feels a little choppy from time to time for no obvious reason.

Not sure what's causing it, but glad to know I'm not the only one that's experienced this.

I never had this on my '02 or '08 M3s.

amw896 · 03-03-2017, 01:03 PM

my 235i also does this on a very inconsistent basis quite often. I have found a fix though, switching modes between sport+ and DSC eliminates it every time for at least a day or two. It's weird and the only thing I can think of is the ecu learning to adapt to throttle modulation or something.

Try that and see if it works.

DavidGP · 03-04-2017, 10:16 AM

My 2016 also does this but mostly in reverse from a stop like backing into a parking spot. I notice that a quick blip of the throttle help a lot.

Emcee · 03-23-2017, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

from my experience in my g35. clutches are moody ass bitches

My 350Z did it too, old Honda and Chevy never did though

shiv.nandak · 03-24-2017, 10:46 PM

I was told by a friend that this is because of the self adjusting clutch. Can someone confirm?

boss2k · 04-03-2017, 05:16 PM

Yes i also get it sometimes. Secondly i have seen the clutch engagement point getting adjusted automatically and now the release point ( sweet spot) is higher than before which results in less smoother release of clutch in sports/sports + modes. I am told it being a hydraulic clutch it cant get adjusted

will the clutch stop fix this issue?

tastes jigga · 04-18-2017, 11:12 AM

Just took delivery of a 2018 M4 LCI ZCP M/T and I'm having the same issue. This is not my first manual BMW.

GregW / Oregon · 12-15-2017, 11:39 AM

Man, this is getting more frequent on my '15 with 28k now. Happens at low rpms when slowly starting out in 1st. Feels liked warped disc but I know it can't be that as it's not consistent and I've never abused the clutch. Last two time I took it to dealer they "failed to reproduce the symptoms". May have to try again as it's annoying. This is my third manual M3/4 and never had this issue.

Aaaaaaaaa · 12-15-2017, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Man, this is getting more frequent on my '15 with 28k now. Happens at low rpms when slowly starting out in 1st. Feels liked warped disc but I know it can't be that as it's not consistent and I've never abused the clutch. Last two time I took it to dealer they "failed to reproduce the symptoms". May have to try again as it's annoying. This is my third manual M3/4 and never had this issue.

Glad this thread came back. I just took delivery 1 week ago and experiencing the same thing since pretty much off the lot. I've never stalled (almost once, forgot the car was in gear after starting) and never had really rough clutch engagements. Only other person to drive the car was my detailer but he drives a e92 6MT so I doubt he was hard on the clutch. I guess it's just normal? From what I've read from other threads it's a combination of it being a twin plate clutch, carbon fiber drive shaft, and stiff trans mounts.

shay2nak · 12-15-2017, 03:37 PM

nothing yet 47mi 2018.

Sassicaia · 12-17-2017, 03:14 PM

I had this on my 2002 330i and it frankly reduced my enjoyment of driving it. I could never diagnose it, and im very happy to be in a manual with zero examples of it. Knock on wood it doesnt start.

DavidGP · 12-17-2017, 07:32 PM

I experience this from time to time. Its worse in Sport+. Its almost completely gone after spark plugs were changed at 18k.

aerostar · 12-18-2017, 01:01 PM

The engine seems to open the throttle when you're releasing the clutch (no matter what).

So I think it's a combination of over-gassing it. Try just slowly releasing the clutch w/ no gas and the car will feel like a "normal" manual car.

I started doing that in heavy traffic.. There's almost no need to ever gas it in first unless you need to take off fast.

F1fan · 12-18-2017, 04:44 PM

I have experienced this as well. Dealer could not reproduce problem. To me, it seemed like the car's anti-stall system (which, I believe, applies gas when it thinks it is in danger of stalling) is activating at incorrect times. I get it primarily between 5-10 MPH in first or second, but when RPMs are way above stall range (2K - 4K). The car will judder or buck until I re-engage the clutch...Very frustrating.

Aaaaaaaaa · 12-22-2017, 12:22 AM

I experienced a lot of this today while doing some parking lot maneuvers. It's almost like the clutch "overheats" or something when doing a lot of 1st gear and reverse engagements. Something changes with the anti-stall system and the clutch friction point. It's quite odd and somewhat disheartening for a $80k car. When I do normal driving it feels fine.

03-02-2017, 12:07 PM	#1
GregW / Oregon Commander-In-Chief 2119 Rep 8,922 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lake Oswego, OR iTrader: (3) Garage List 2023 M2 Coupe [9.83] 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 [7.25]	Clutch "judder" - 6MT On my '15 6MT for several months now there is a "judder" (shudder?) often when slowly releasing the clutch from a stop at low rpms. I don't think it's a warped disc as it is not constant or consistent. I never do hard clutch drops and don't slip the clutch excessively. Has anyone experienced something similar? __________________ Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
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03-02-2017, 12:15 PM	#2
shiv.nandak Lieutenant 271 Rep 476 Posts Drives: C7 Z06, 16' M4 6MT SO Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (0)	Its always been like that for me. One thing to note though, the ECU seems to add slight throttle input while doing this (anti stall?).
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03-02-2017, 03:39 PM	#3
tito_gsx Private 4 Rep 91 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (1)	I had this on my f30 6mt pretty bad and apparently its a known issue without a cure. When I got my f80 it was much better but there is noticeable judder....curious if this is normal as well.
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03-02-2017, 07:11 PM	#4
gatorfast Major General 4995 Rep 6,862 Posts Drives: 718 Cayman Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SoFla iTrader: (4)	Hmm my car doesn't do anything like this. Is the car on the verge of stalling while this is happening (ie rpms are too low)? What happens if you just let the clutch out slowly with no throttle does it still do it?
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03-03-2017, 12:43 PM	#7
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY Banned 4997 Rep 4,139 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (1)	from my experience in my g35. clutches are moody ass bitches
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03-03-2017, 01:03 PM	#9
amw896 Major 583 Rep 1,117 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW M235i Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: ontario iTrader: (0) Garage List 2015 BMW M235i [10.00]	my 235i also does this on a very inconsistent basis quite often. I have found a fix though, switching modes between sport+ and DSC eliminates it every time for at least a day or two. It's weird and the only thing I can think of is the ecu learning to adapt to throttle modulation or something. Try that and see if it works.
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03-04-2017, 10:16 AM	#10
DavidGP Lieutenant 350 Rep 472 Posts Drives: 2016 MG F80 6spd Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	My 2016 also does this but mostly in reverse from a stop like backing into a parking spot. I notice that a quick blip of the throttle help a lot.
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03-24-2017, 10:46 PM	#12
shiv.nandak Lieutenant 271 Rep 476 Posts Drives: C7 Z06, 16' M4 6MT SO Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (0)	I was told by a friend that this is because of the self adjusting clutch. Can someone confirm?
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04-03-2017, 05:16 PM	#13
boss2k Colonel 1078 Rep 2,791 Posts Drives: 2021 M2C Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (2)	Yes i also get it sometimes. Secondly i have seen the clutch engagement point getting adjusted automatically and now the release point ( sweet spot) is higher than before which results in less smoother release of clutch in sports/sports + modes. I am told it being a hydraulic clutch it cant get adjusted will the clutch stop fix this issue? __________________ 2021 M2C HS/6MT/Exec/Moonroof
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04-18-2017, 11:12 AM	#14
tastes jigga First Lieutenant 316 Rep 343 Posts Drives: '19 750i xDrive Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	Just took delivery of a 2018 M4 LCI ZCP M/T and I'm having the same issue. This is not my first manual BMW.
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12-15-2017, 11:39 AM	#15
GregW / Oregon Commander-In-Chief 2119 Rep 8,922 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lake Oswego, OR iTrader: (3) Garage List 2023 M2 Coupe [9.83] 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 [7.25]	Clutch "judder" or "shudder" Man, this is getting more frequent on my '15 with 28k now. Happens at low rpms when slowly starting out in 1st. Feels liked warped disc but I know it can't be that as it's not consistent and I've never abused the clutch. Last two time I took it to dealer they "failed to reproduce the symptoms". May have to try again as it's annoying. This is my third manual M3/4 and never had this issue. __________________ Greg Lake Oswego, Oregon, USA 2023 M2 Coupe - Brooklyn Grey/Cognac/CF, 6MT; 2020 MB GLE 450
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12-15-2017, 03:37 PM	#17
shay2nak smoke if ya got 'em 1070 Rep 2,179 Posts Drives: F80 M3/Lotus Exige/500 Abarth Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Calipornia iTrader: (0)	nothing yet 47mi 2018.
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12-17-2017, 03:14 PM	#18
Sassicaia Brigadier General 4453 Rep 3,308 Posts Drives: SMB F80 6MT Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (0)	I had this on my 2002 330i and it frankly reduced my enjoyment of driving it. I could never diagnose it, and im very happy to be in a manual with zero examples of it. Knock on wood it doesnt start.
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12-17-2017, 07:32 PM	#19
DavidGP Lieutenant 350 Rep 472 Posts Drives: 2016 MG F80 6spd Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I experience this from time to time. Its worse in Sport+. Its almost completely gone after spark plugs were changed at 18k.
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12-18-2017, 01:01 PM	#20
aerostar Major 746 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	The engine seems to open the throttle when you're releasing the clutch (no matter what). So I think it's a combination of over-gassing it. Try just slowly releasing the clutch w/ no gas and the car will feel like a "normal" manual car. I started doing that in heavy traffic.. There's almost no need to ever gas it in first unless you need to take off fast.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-18-2017, 04:44 PM	#21
F1fan Private First Class 35 Rep 109 Posts Drives: 2017 F80 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: KS iTrader: (0)	I have experienced this as well. Dealer could not reproduce problem. To me, it seemed like the car's anti-stall system (which, I believe, applies gas when it thinks it is in danger of stalling) is activating at incorrect times. I get it primarily between 5-10 MPH in first or second, but when RPMs are way above stall range (2K - 4K). The car will judder or buck until I re-engage the clutch...Very frustrating.
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12-22-2017, 12:22 AM	#22
Aaaaaaaaa Banned 7559 Rep 5,056 Posts Drives: The other M3 Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	I experienced a lot of this today while doing some parking lot maneuvers. It's almost like the clutch "overheats" or something when doing a lot of 1st gear and reverse engagements. Something changes with the anti-stall system and the clutch friction point. It's quite odd and somewhat disheartening for a $80k car. When I do normal driving it feels fine.
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