Reported SCH due to engine design flaw while using CBC?

M-Pilot · 03-28-2019, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluer2

Can somebody confirm the part number for the bolts?

Their bolts aren't really OEM and here's why. I was wondering the same thing and wanted to find the part number of those 8 bolts. If you check BMW ETK (item #4), you'll see the part number for those ASA bolts is 11237575488. After finding this out, I went ahead and ordered 9 of them but then realized these bolts are probably not long enough to account for the thickness of the bolt capture. Then I sent an email to H2 Motors (German guys) asking the part number. Here's their reply:

"Hello,

nice to read that you like our videos, thank you! Many competitors simply copied our work, therefore we would like to keep this as our little secret.

Sorry, but we can not tell you the number. The screws have the same strength as the original screws, they are just 5mm longer to compensate the thickness of the lock.

Kind regards"

Long story short, they use the same OEM strength bolts but theirs are slightly modified in length, hence not really OEM. I think I'll just stick with the bolts that VTT provides.

Bluer2 · 03-28-2019, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Long story short, they use the same OEM strength bolts but theirs are slightly modified in length, hence not really OEM. I think I'll just stick with the bolts that VTT provides.

Are the VTT bolts also 5mm longer than the OEM bolts to compensate for the thickness of CBC?

M-Pilot · 03-28-2019, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluer2

Are the VTT bolts also 5mm longer than the OEM bolts to compensate for the thickness of CBC?

That's what I'm trying to find out currently. I'm planning to buy an OEM bolt from a dealer and compare it to VTT bolt before my appointment.

Bluer2 · 03-28-2019, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

That's what I'm trying to find out currently. I'm planning to buy an OEM bolt from a dealer and compare it to VTT bolt before my appointment.

Hmmm. I'm over here counting threads on the bolts.

cbrtrx · 03-28-2019, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluer2

Hmmm. I'm over here counting threads on the bolts.

Those are not the bolts supplied with the vargas kit, just used for illustration purposes I'm guessing. Yes the bolts they supply are longer.

Rotzy · 03-28-2019, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrtrx

Those are not the bolts supplied with the vargas kit, just used for illustration purposes I'm guessing. Yes the bolts they supply are longer.

The Vargas bolts were longer than stock. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a picture of them before installation.

MR RIZK · 03-28-2019, 04:46 AM

It appears the H2 has bigger eyelets for the holes which would be more forgiving during install. Ie the central bolt doesn't need to be tweaked if it doesn't line up.

Djdnav · 03-28-2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotzy

The Vargas bolts were longer than stock. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a picture of them before installation.

I don’t know how long the oem bolts are, but here’s the length of the VTT bolts below the head

Chris@VargasTurboTech · 03-28-2019, 09:43 AM

hey guys. Of course, our bolts are longer to compensate for the capture. Those button heads in the photos were taken prob 2 years ago when we first released these. Those bolts were never shipped. We have sent, and will always send grade 12.9 socket caps. Our bolts are 12mm longer than factory to not only make up for the width of the capture but also use as much of the available thread as possible in the hub. So to hit all points. VTT bolts 28mm of thread, 12.9 grade. Factory 16mm of thread 8.8 or 10.9 grade(not sure which). Our bolts are not only longer, but also stronger (see attached chart). Hope that helps!

Djdnav · 03-28-2019, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

hey guys. Of course, our bolts are longer to compensate for the capture. Those button heads in the photos were taken prob 2 years ago when we first released these. Those bolts were never shipped. We have sent, and will always send grade 12.9 socket caps. Our bolts are 12mm longer than factory to not only make up for the width of the capture but also use as much of the available thread as possible in the hub. So to hit all points. VTT bolts 28mm of thread, 12.9 grade. Factory 16mm of thread 8.8 or 10.9 grade(not sure which). Our bolts are not only longer, but also stronger (see attached chart). This is not our first rodeo guys. We have all our bases covered...

To be fair, I don’t think anyone doubted the quality of what you guys put out, just making objective comparison. I was more than satisfied with the transaction with VTT.

Tangent · 03-28-2019, 10:24 AM

I'm probably going to get this myself as a "just in case" sort of thing but it frustrates me that the SCH is common enough to be a worry (on forums at least) but uncommon enough that the effectiveness of the fixes is damn near impossible to gauge... Would the cars with these fixes even have spun the hub without them or been one of the masses that never spun it at all? It feels a little like giving someone a talisman to avoid getting hit by lightning.

ssgm1x · 03-28-2019, 01:00 PM

Here is a pic of my CBC with hardware from Vargas I just received yesterday.
I'm curious of Torque Specs for the new bolts, and do we use Blue Threadlock....
Also gonna make sure my Crank Bolt did not come loose before installing.
[IMG][/IMG]

Chris@VargasTurboTech · 03-28-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssgm1x

Here is a pic of my CBC with hardware from Vargas I just received yesterday.
I'm curious of Torque Specs for the new bolts, and do we use Blue Threadlock....
Also gonna make sure my Crank Bolt did not come loose before installing.
[IMG][/IMG]

Follow Factory Tq specs, and we do suggest some blue thread locker.

Djdnav · 03-28-2019, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssgm1x

Here is a pic of my CBC with hardware from Vargas I just received yesterday.
I'm curious of Torque Specs for the new bolts, and do we use Blue Threadlock....
Also gonna make sure my Crank Bolt did not come loose before installing.
[IMG][/IMG]

You left out the gummi bears

allinon72 · 03-28-2019, 03:34 PM

Just as a practical matter, I'd much rather have external torx than those socket cap screws.

johnnyredgtr · 03-28-2019, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6SPD GOD

Has there been any reported SCH from a vehicle running the crank hub bolt capture?

I installed mine cbc today...a little time consuming but..i feel a little safe now. i know it's not the best solution but, i feel confidence when driving hard my M3.

6SPD GOD · 03-28-2019, 06:51 PM

So, no reported SCH while using CBC so far.

tom @ eas · 03-28-2019, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6SPD GOD

So, no reported SCH while using CBC so far.

Not enough data. CBC alone only does not make you immune from a SPH.

DanMpower · 03-28-2019, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Not enough data. CBC alone only does not make you immune from a SPH.

Since there isn't enough data we can't conclusively say if he's immune or not right?

For all we know, the CBC fixes this issue completely. Until someone spins with the CBC installed, we really don't know if it works or not. It's a waiting game now.... who's gonna win the "Spun my hub with CBC" award first? I'll donate $100 to the first person who does it.

6SPD GOD · 03-29-2019, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M and Ms

Since there isn't enough data we can't conclusively say if he's immune or not right?

For all we know, the CBC fixes this issue completely. Until someone spins with the CBC installed, we really don't know if it works or not. It's a waiting game now.... who's gonna win the "Spun my hub with CBC" award first? I'll donate $100 to the first person who does it.

yjypm · 03-29-2019, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M and Ms

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Not enough data. CBC alone only does not make you immune from a SPH.

Since there isn't enough data we can't conclusively say if he's immune or not right?

For all we know, the CBC fixes this issue completely. Until someone spins with the CBC installed, we really don't know if it works or not. It's a waiting game now.... who's gonna win the "Spun my hub with CBC" award first? I'll donate $100 to the first person who does it.

I'll try to grab your $100 lol

...hopefully I will never win it

ICantDrive4Sht · 03-29-2019, 03:55 AM

If there really are no reports of SCH with just the CBC, then why did vargas feel the need to make the spline lock solution?

03-28-2019, 04:46 AM	#29
MR RIZK Major 758 Rep 1,336 Posts Drives: AW M2C Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	It appears the H2 has bigger eyelets for the holes which would be more forgiving during install. Ie the central bolt doesn't need to be tweaked if it doesn't line up. __________________ Previous Rides: 13' 135i, 08' 130i, 03' HKS Turbo'd 350z, Modded GC8 WRX, NA MX5
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03-28-2019, 09:43 AM	#31
Chris@VargasTurboTech Lieutenant Colonel 1932 Rep 1,532 Posts Drives: All Things TurboCharged Join Date: May 2016 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	hey guys. Of course, our bolts are longer to compensate for the capture. Those button heads in the photos were taken prob 2 years ago when we first released these. Those bolts were never shipped. We have sent, and will always send grade 12.9 socket caps. Our bolts are 12mm longer than factory to not only make up for the width of the capture but also use as much of the available thread as possible in the hub. So to hit all points. VTT bolts 28mm of thread, 12.9 grade. Factory 16mm of thread 8.8 or 10.9 grade(not sure which). Our bolts are not only longer, but also stronger (see attached chart). Hope that helps! Attached Images Last edited by Chris@VargasTurboTech; 03-28-2019 at 02:06 PM..
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03-28-2019, 10:24 AM	#33
Tangent Lieutenant 296 Rep 581 Posts Drives: G01, F82, E89, F25 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: California iTrader: (2)	I'm probably going to get this myself as a "just in case" sort of thing but it frustrates me that the SCH is common enough to be a worry (on forums at least) but uncommon enough that the effectiveness of the fixes is damn near impossible to gauge... Would the cars with these fixes even have spun the hub without them or been one of the masses that never spun it at all? It feels a little like giving someone a talisman to avoid getting hit by lightning.
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03-28-2019, 01:00 PM	#34
ssgm1x Captain 418 Rep 771 Posts Drives: 2020 M340i & 2018 M3 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Cherry hill ,NJ iTrader: (0)	Here is a pic of my CBC with hardware from Vargas I just received yesterday. I'm curious of Torque Specs for the new bolts, and do we use Blue Threadlock.... Also gonna make sure my Crank Bolt did not come loose before installing. [IMG][/IMG] Attached Images __________________ 2020 BMW M340ix Dravit Grey 2018 BMW M3 Alpine White
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03-28-2019, 03:34 PM	#37
allinon72 Brigadier General 4908 Rep 3,794 Posts Drives: 20' M2C, 23' X1 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Indianapolis, IN iTrader: (2)	Just as a practical matter, I'd much rather have external torx than those socket cap screws.
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03-28-2019, 06:51 PM	#39
6SPD GOD First Lieutenant 99 Rep 335 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 ZCP 6SP Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: California iTrader: (0)	So, no reported SCH while using CBC so far.
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03-29-2019, 03:55 AM	#44
ICantDrive4Sht Second Lieutenant 199 Rep 244 Posts Drives: F87 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	If there really are no reports of SCH with just the CBC, then why did vargas feel the need to make the spline lock solution?
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