Passive Suspension stiffness?

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Empty button slot for NOS buttons!!!!



(Joke)

dude NOS button belongs somewhere hidden....didn't you know?

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Funny you should ask:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=942225

Ahh, thanks for that. Pretty cool read. So if I read it right, the different modes, like comfort, sport, etc, are just different types of 'models' for the ECU?? Anyways, sounds like you need to get the adaptive suspension even if you never change the setting. It does sound like a pretty complicated overall system, but then again, these cars these days are soo advanced and techy.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

Anyways, sounds like you need to get the adaptive suspension even if you never change the setting.

Glad you got that from my post. I came here to make that point explicitly.

Even if you never touch the button, the car is still reading the road and adjusting the dampers electronically to achieve the optimum damping level.

The button just changes what that optimum level is. A passive damper cannot achieve the same level of ride and handling compromise than a semi-active damper can. Unless you know you're going with coil-overs right away, I consider this option a must have.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Even if you never touch the button, the car is still reading the road and adjusting the dampers electronically to achieve the optimum damping level.

It's certainly a worthwhile point to make. And while I do understand this about the active suspension, I still feel as though it isn't necessary for my needs.

When they get that magic ride wizardry all figured out - the one that reads and predicts the road surface and actively controls the suspension's compression and rebound to compensate - then maybe I'll sign on. But maybe not. . I guess by then the active damper will be the entry level anyway.

Oh, and before someone points out the new S Class has it already - I know. But we've got a generation or two before it is available to us plebeians.

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Glad you got that from my post. I came here to make that point explicitly.

Even if you never touch the button, the car is still reading the road and adjusting the dampers electronically to achieve the optimum damping level.

The button just changes what that optimum level is. A passive damper cannot achieve the same level of ride and handling compromise than a semi-active damper can. Unless you know you're going with coil-overs right away, I consider this option a must have.

So is this active damping shindig more useful for general day to day driving? Like for comfort and stuff? Because it seems like it wouldn't make that much of a difference on a track surface, one that is usually smooth.

[/// M sa]

Well since I am going with coilovers I will have to pass.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

So is this active damping shindig more useful for general day to day driving? Like for comfort and stuff? Because it seems like it wouldn't make that much of a difference on a track surface, one that is usually smooth.

It's useful on a track as well. It's main function is to have a base level of damping that's soft enough to provide comfort on the street, but be able to increase damping instantaneously to respond to large body motions like roll, bounce, and pitch, such as what you'd see on a race track.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It's certainly a worthwhile point to make. And while I do understand this about the active suspension, I still feel as though it isn't necessary for my needs.

When they get that magic ride wizardry all figured out - the one that reads and predicts the road surface and actively controls the suspension's compression and rebound to compensate - then maybe I'll sign on. But maybe not. . I guess by then the active damper will be the entry level anyway.

Oh, and before someone points out the new S Class has it already - I know. But we've got a generation or two before it is available to us plebeians.

The Merc technology uses an ACTIVE suspension, as compared to the SEMI-active that most other cars use. The difference is that active suspension can add force to the system: it can raise or lower the car under its own power to counteract road inputs or body motions. A SEMI-active system can only damp energy that's put into the system by outside forces (road inputs, driver inputs, etc).

A full active system uses hydraulic (or electromagnetic) actuators rather than shock absorbers, and requires quite a bit of energy to work, either via electrical current or hydraulic pressure from a pump (reduced mpg). There's also the additional cost, weight, and complexity of the hardware. It'll be a while before that type of system makes its way down market, and it's not as well suited to a sports car as it is to a big luxury vehicle.

[varsity]

Originally Posted by Racer20

A passive damper cannot achieve the same level of ride and handling compromise than a semi-active damper can. Unless you know you're going with coil-overs right away, I consider this option a must have.

I disagree with this blanket statement. For anything more spirited than around-town driving, I'd much rather have a highly-developed passive damping system as opposed to any of the semi-active damping systems I've experienced. I'm thinking specifically of Porsche. I find that PASM makes it much more difficult to judge levels of adhesion as opposed to passive dampers. Specifically, a passive damping system is NOT constantly adjusting bounce and rebound to accommodate what it is thinks the driver wants. Some guys want to be able to adjust - or have the car automatically adjust - these settings mid-lap. I'm not one of those guys.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned and maybe semi-active (or active) damping systems have come a long way since the 997 PASM systems, but I'm not a fan.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Glad you got that from my post. I came here to make that point explicitly.

Even if you never touch the button, the car is still reading the road and adjusting the dampers electronically to achieve the optimum damping level.

The button just changes what that optimum level is. A passive damper cannot achieve the same level of ride and handling compromise than a semi-active damper can. Unless you know you're going with coil-overs right away, I consider this option a must have.

that is why I am getting it

I wonder how good it is. The EDC in the e9x really didn't improve much over the standard suspension (imo), so hopefully the calibration and equipment will be a big step up this time. I intend to find out.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

So is this active damping shindig more useful for general day to day driving? Like for comfort and stuff? Because it seems like it wouldn't make that much of a difference on a track surface, one that is usually smooth.

im assuming you have never been to TWS or MSR-H then? because those tracks are anything but smooth

Originally Posted by varsity

I disagree with this blanket statement. For anything more spirited than around-town driving, I'd much rather have a highly-developed passive damping system as opposed to any of the semi-active damping systems I've experienced. I'm thinking specifically of Porsche. I find that PASM makes it much more difficult to judge levels of adhesion as opposed to passive dampers. Specifically, a passive damping system is NOT constantly adjusting bounce and rebound to accommodate what it is thinks the driver wants. Some guys want to be able to adjust - or have the car automatically adjust - these settings mid-lap. I'm not one of those guys.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned and maybe semi-active (or active) damping systems have come a long way since the 997 PASM systems, but I'm not a fan.

I would say they have, quite a bit so in fact. The 991 suspension calibration with PASM was amazing.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Racer20

The Merc technology uses an ACTIVE suspension, as compared to the SEMI-active that most other cars use. The difference is that active suspension can add force to the system: it can raise or lower the car under its own power to counteract road inputs or body motions. A SEMI-active system can only damp energy that's put into the system by outside forces (road inputs, driver inputs, etc).

A full active system uses hydraulic (or electromagnetic) actuators rather than shock absorbers, and requires quite a bit of energy to work, either via electrical current or hydraulic pressure from a pump (reduced mpg). There's also the additional cost, weight, and complexity of the hardware. It'll be a while before that type of system makes its way down market, and it's not as well suited to a sports car as it is to a big luxury vehicle.

Right, yeah, I understand the fundamental difference between the two. My point was that the fully active setup seems to have promise in adding drastically improved ride characteristics, and in theory handling too. The end result, if the demonstration videos I've seen are an indicator of what is possible in practice, is that the car will be able to do things to the experience that are simply impossible to do with a passive suspension. In other words, while I could probably fool someone who isn't in the know about what kind of suspension the car they are riding in has (passive or semi-active), with the fully active thing, I think it would be blatantly obvious.

[dmk08]

How long does it normally take KW or other vendors to produce a coil-over kit after a car is release? I see there are already KW kits for the 435.

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

im assuming you have never been to TWS or MSR-H then? because those tracks are anything but smooth

Unfortunately I have not. Between pharmacy school, work, and studying, the only thing I have time for is sleep.