Endless endurance brake pads!

[peter_s]

The last set of pads on my car were the Winmax W5, with is similar to the Carbotec XP10/12 in specs. I have the stock steel brake system.

As usual, they are a great upgrade from stock, but there is always some fade for me with this type of pad. I've tried many brands, and so far I think I've had the best experince with PFC01, not counting the Endless pads that is.

I took a course this summer on the Nurburgring and I needed something better, and the W5s were getting worn. Not a bad pad, but not quite enough for me.

I called my local contact at Raeder motorsport and he set me up with some Endless endurance pads. These are the proper racing pads that many GT teams use for 24h racing.

I did ask about the PFC and especially some Pagid alternatives. Their answer was: "The M4 has too much horsepower for the RS series pads".

Normally when you switch to brake pads it's just more of the same. Better brakes, better feel, and better durability. I took these out for two laps and I had some problems actually. They had too much bite, I had to be MUCH more gentle and it really felt like the whole brake system had been changed. They are great in terms of bite, modulation and heat resistance.

I have NEVER had brakes that worked so well. I could really abuse them and they never went off. Sometimes on the Nurburgring you can get stuck in traffic, and that's generally when I get fade because I can't manage the heat properly in those situations. SUPER reliable, and the best feeling pad I've ever driven. I am so impressed that I just can't believe the difference these pads made.

In the end I did over 30 laps on these, that's about 380 miles on the ring. Wear is minimal, I didn't measure the thickness, but I don't see much wear by looking at them. They work on the street too, not too noisy on my car.

The negative thing: Price. These pads were $1700 for both axles. Considering the wear though, I thinks it's a good deal. I would suppose the end cost would be better than running a PFC01 or RS29. But maybe not by much. What you do get though is an EXCELLENT pad!

http://www.endless-brake.info/index....ance-compounds

[OhioRiderAaron]

$1700!! You got to be kidding me! That's roughly 3x the price of the Pagids. I hear the Endless stuff is great, but c'mon guys! At that rate, you might be better off upgrading the rotor/caliper setup to something that offers more generic pad shapes.

[peter_s]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

$1700!! You got to be kidding me! That's roughly 3x the price of the Pagids. I hear the Endless stuff is great, but c'mon guys! At that rate, you might be better off upgrading the rotor/caliper setup to something that offers more generic pad shapes.

I think you have to look at the total economy. Where I'm at a set of Pagids or PFCs are around $900. And if these lasts twice as long then I'm even.

With these brake pads, I don't see a need for a BBK. The stock brakes now work great with minimal wear.

I've tried so many pads that last 3-4 track days at best in the $700-900 range. These will last much longer. It all depends on the track you are driving on, some are much nicer to the brakes than others. If you find a pad that works for you with the track you drive on, great. I haven't until now.

[Someone?]

Yah reguardless $1700 is F N insane!

[larryn]

Add cooling and get double the life of your pads at the track. I run Pagid RS29s and went through a set of pads in 3.5 days, which is horrible. Then I added homemade ducting and got the rest of the season out of that set of RS29s, about 7 more track days, with another day or two remaining.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by peter_s

I think you have to look at the total economy. Where I'm at a set of Pagids or PFCs are around $900. And if these lasts twice as long then I'm even.

With these brake pads, I don't see a need for a BBK. The stock brakes now work great with minimal wear.

I've tried so many pads that last 3-4 track days at best in the $700-900 range. These will last much longer. It all depends on the track you are driving on, some are much nicer to the brakes than others. If you find a pad that works for you with the track you drive on, great. I haven't until now.

Keep in mind that all pads wear slower in the initial phase then the wear rapidly increases as the pad volume decreases. But yes different tracks will wear consumables differently.

Again, I've heard really good things about Endless products, but it's hard to wrap my brain around $1700 consumables.

Originally Posted by larryn

Add cooling and get double the life of your pads at the track. I run Pagid RS29s and went through a set of pads in 3.5 days, which is horrible. Then I added homemade ducting and got the rest of the season out of that set of RS29s, about 7 more track days, with another day or two remaining.

Totally agree! Additional cooling is definitely necessary on this car. I literally burned my hand last weekend just trying to check the pressure in my tires (air surrounding wheel was that hot). Right now, I've got 4 trackdays, and probably 40-50% of my Pagid RS29's left. I'd probably have 60+% if I had added additional ducting beforehand. Of course the Endless pad life would improve as well.

Aaron

[robbo mcs]

I have run endless endurance pads (on another car). Amazing pads, and last forever. I also ran pagid Rs29 and carbotech rp2 on the same car, the endless were better by some margin and lasted longer. They are very expensive though.

[peter_s]

Originally Posted by ibmike

Yah reguardless $1700 is F N insane!

Well, it's not much more than a set of tires? And those are consumables as well. People buy exhaust or wheels for $8k, and that's insane to me

I will follow up here, as I said it's all about total economy for me. I don't mind the higher initial cost if they last much longer.

You can always look at the Endless MX72, which would be more similar in price and performance to the RS29/PFC01. I've heard really great things about them.

Originally Posted by larryn

Add cooling and get double the life of your pads at the track. I run Pagid RS29s and went through a set of pads in 3.5 days, which is horrible. Then I added homemade ducting and got the rest of the season out of that set of RS29s, about 7 more track days, with another day or two remaining.

Good points about the cooling. How did you go about there?

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Keep in mind that all pads wear slower in the initial phase then the wear rapidly increases as the pad volume decreases. But yes different tracks will wear consumables differently.

Again, I've heard really good things about Endless products, but it's hard to wrap my brain around $1700 consumables.



Totally agree! Additional cooling is definitely necessary on this car. I literally burned my hand last weekend just trying to check the pressure in my tires (air surrounding wheel was that hot). Right now, I've got 4 trackdays, and probably 40-50% of my Pagid RS29's left. I'd probably have 60+% if I had added additional ducting beforehand. Of course the Endless pad life would improve as well.

Aaron

Lets see how this pans out in total costs after this set is worn out. I've never had pads that have worn so little even in the initial stage.

Originally Posted by robbo mcs

I have run endless endurance pads (on another car). Amazing pads, and last forever. I also ran pagid Rs29 and carbotech rp2 on the same car, the endless were better by some margin and lasted longer. They are very expensive though.

Cost and longevity aside, these pads are really good in terms of bite and modulation. I don't have to step on the pedal like before, I'm really amazed by that. Glad you have had positive experiences as well. I hope these lasts me well, I don't want to go back.


For all you who are chocked about the price, these is one more point I would like to make. I almost only drive on the Nordschleife, and there are some scary braking zones on that track. In the M4 I have 260km/h on my speedo at one point (before Schwedenkreutz) and I REALLY value consistent brakes. There are a few places on this track where I want to have 100% trust in my brakes (isn't that true always though). Sometimes when you brake from 220km/h and there is no runoff, getting brake fade is not a nice thing. On a "normal" racing track you can often save the situation by taking another line or so. But here there might be a compression or braking before a hill etc, off camber, you name it. Add that the track is narrow. What I'm trying to say is that the margin for error is lower and it's sometimes more difficult to manage the heat in your brakes there. I had 100% confidence on my last trip with the M4, and I've never had that before. That's worth a lot to me.

[Henry85]

Hi ! can you tell me the exact type of Endless pad you buy? thanks