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      03-10-2016, 07:37 PM   #1
stephenyj
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Alignment after lowering

I just had a quick question for the members who lowered their cars on coils. After the springs settle in, if I adjust my ride height, would it be ok to get an alignment right afterwards? I have heard different things from different mechanics and was wondering what the general consensus was. Thanks!
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      03-10-2016, 11:46 PM   #2
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I drove around for about a month (about 1k miles) and then got it aligned.
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      03-11-2016, 12:55 AM   #3
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I always have alignment done right after the ride height adjustment.
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      03-11-2016, 01:24 AM   #4
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After suspension It is always good to get an alignment but not necessary.It depends on what parts have been changed or adjusted to get the lowered springs on. Normally the lowering of the car naturally adjust the camber of the wheels so you will have camber wear on tires. And if you want to get the camber in its original position, you will need camber arms depending on what suspension setup your car has.
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      03-11-2016, 01:40 AM   #5
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MFNATIK Wouldn't an alignment after driving around for a month and 1k miles be harmful for the tires?

zac5 By getting an alignment immediately after a ride height adjustment, did you notice a drastic change from the aligned specs the next time you got an alignment? I'm currently waiting for my springs to settle then I will probably do the same.

msginnie I recently installed the kw clubsport suspension on my car and I am currently waiting for my springs to settle before getting an alignment. But, because I am not satisfied with the current ride height, I wanted to lower the car a little more and then get an alignment. I was curious whether changing my ride height and immediately getting an alignment after would be ideal. I have heard from other enthusiasts you should wait for around two weeks after a ride height change to get an alignment.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
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      03-11-2016, 01:49 AM   #6
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It was a 1k easy miles. No preceievable tire wear. I even asked Chris at West End and he said none that he could tell. Its not like I am tracking my car haha
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      03-11-2016, 02:00 AM   #7
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True, +1 on not tracking my car, yet. Your M3 is beautiful, how did you drop the car and how much did you drop it by?
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      03-11-2016, 02:02 AM   #8
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Thank you! It's my favorite BMW blue. It's lowered on Eibachs and the stated drop was 0.8" F and 0.2" R. It's perfect for a daily driven street car. Rides like stock and did not cause me to scrape my front lip.
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      03-12-2016, 08:59 AM   #9
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OP, honestly I have never really paid attention as I have alignment altered quite frequently(pretty much once two weeks). I will double check next time.
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      03-12-2016, 10:56 AM   #10
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I've always aligned my vehicles after a drop. Just don't like cutting corners and prefer to know the alignment settings before/after so I can document and compare handling characteristics, wear, etc.
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      03-12-2016, 01:47 PM   #11
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While you do get camber from lowering a car it will generally affect toe as well which requires an alignment to correct. I've never heard of driving for two weeks before an alignment. I've always been told and practiced any ride height adjustments need geometry corrected by alignment. I'd love to see a study or some measurements from a shop about springs settling and the amount they do so. I have to imagine it's a negligible amount.
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      03-12-2016, 03:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave12285 View Post
While you do get camber from lowering a car it will generally affect toe as well which requires an alignment to correct. I've never heard of driving for two weeks before an alignment. I've always been told and practiced any ride height adjustments need geometry corrected by alignment. I'd love to see a study or some measurements from a shop about springs settling and the amount they do so. I have to imagine it's a negligible amount.
You're probably right. I just had to fit it into my schedule lol
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      03-14-2016, 10:38 AM   #13
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The spring settling thing has been around for a long time. Honestly, spring steel does not experience creep that would result in any ride height change.

What can settle in is other suspension components, especially if things were not done correctly. One thing that is often overlooked is that the bushings in the swing arms are indexed to ride height. That means to properly install new springs/dampers you need to re-index them. That involves breaking the bolts loose where the arms attach to the body and then putting the vehicle weight down on the suspension to put it at ride height. Then you re-torque the bolts. Coilovers make this more problematic as the neutral height is adjustable. The point of doing this is to make it so that the bushings in the swing arms are not put under stress when the vehicle is at normal ride height. If, like most installers, you simply install the new springs and then set the car down you will be putting a lot of torsion on that bushing. Then, as your drive around, the bushings begin to fail and release that torsion; resulting in a slight drop in ride height. The thing is, those bushings are very important to the handling of the car. Adding that torsion to them can make then fail very prematurely.

Also, the bolts for the swing arms to chassis are torque to yield which means that should be replaced, which I bet most do not do either.

When I did the installation of my KW V1 coilovers in my 335 I did reindex the bushings properly. I set up the ride height how I wanted it and took measurements. I got it aligned immediately. I took measurements at intervals afterward and I did not see even a millimeter of "settling" in the ride height.
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      03-14-2016, 12:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
The spring settling thing has been around for a long time. Honestly, spring steel does not experience creep that would result in any ride height change.

What can settle in is other suspension components, especially if things were not done correctly. One thing that is often overlooked is that the bushings in the swing arms are indexed to ride height. That means to properly install new springs/dampers you need to re-index them. That involves breaking the bolts loose where the arms attach to the body and then putting the vehicle weight down on the suspension to put it at ride height. Then you re-torque the bolts. Coilovers make this more problematic as the neutral height is adjustable. The point of doing this is to make it so that the bushings in the swing arms are not put under stress when the vehicle is at normal ride height. If, like most installers, you simply install the new springs and then set the car down you will be putting a lot of torsion on that bushing. Then, as your drive around, the bushings begin to fail and release that torsion; resulting in a slight drop in ride height. The thing is, those bushings are very important to the handling of the car. Adding that torsion to them can make then fail very prematurely.

Also, the bolts for the swing arms to chassis are torque to yield which means that should be replaced, which I bet most do not do either.

When I did the installation of my KW V1 coilovers in my 335 I did reindex the bushings properly. I set up the ride height how I wanted it and took measurements. I got it aligned immediately. I took measurements at intervals afterward and I did not see even a millimeter of "settling" in the ride height.
Is this something normal people could adjust/reset while the car is on the ground? Or did you drive it up some ramps and then adjust this? Can you show pics front and rear of the bolt(s) that need to be reset?

Thanks!
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      03-14-2016, 12:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
Is this something normal people could adjust/reset while the car is on the ground? Or did you drive it up some ramps and then adjust this? Can you show pics front and rear of the bolt(s) that need to be reset?

Thanks!
Well I did the install myself but it was a major PITA. This was on my 335i a few years ago (which is now sold too) so no photos.

From looking at realoem it would be numbers 11 and 13 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_1123

Here is the rear: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=33_1818

I honestly only did item 14 and 15 but you really should re-index all of the arms (see items 10 and 6).

I also followed the ECS tuning installation video for my install:


Check at time 5:50 and 15:40 for where he does the index and re-torque for the rear and front respectively.

If you have been driving around for any amount of time it is likely you have already damaged your bushings honestly. You can re-index them after the fact but the damage is likely already done. I did my full install using a jack and jackstands. You could probably do it on ramps too and just crack the bolts loose and then retorque (or replace them and torque). The suspension will be fully loaded with the car on ramps.


Something to note too for everyone, the rear swing arm has the rear camber adjustment in it (via an eccentric washer). If you don't put this back EXACTLY where it was the rear camber will be totally fouled up. I managed to get one side back where it should be but the other was way out. My car pulled to one side after the install. The point is, an alignment is critical to the handling the of the car as well as your tire wear. Bad toe will chew through your tires in a very short time. Get an alignment. This is your ultimate driving machine afterall, why cheap out on something as critical as the suspension?
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Last edited by jwzimm; 03-14-2016 at 12:46 PM..
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      03-14-2016, 02:17 PM   #16
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Ok, I hope by lowering it on the Eibachs which was very mild I didn't do too much damage as you say to the bushings since I think under 1 inch of travel should be acceptable for loading up the suspension and normal travel.
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      03-14-2016, 02:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
Ok, I hope by lowering it on the Eibachs which was very mild I didn't do too much damage as you say to the bushings since I think under 1 inch of travel should be acceptable for loading up the suspension and normal travel.
True, they do flex when the car is fully loaded in the stock configuration. The point I am making is that people seem to overlook the fact that they are indexed at the factory and should be re-indexed when the baseline neutral ride height is altered.

It is likely you are okay but it is possible they will fail sooner then they would have otherwise. In any case, you should get them re-indexed as soon as you can.

An interesting experiment would be to take a measurement of the ride height prior to and following the indexing to see how much it changes. I am curious about the results myself.
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      03-14-2016, 05:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
The spring settling thing has been around for a long time. Honestly, spring steel does not experience creep that would result in any ride height change.

What can settle in is other suspension components, especially if things were not done correctly. One thing that is often overlooked is that the bushings in the swing arms are indexed to ride height. That means to properly install new springs/dampers you need to re-index them. That involves breaking the bolts loose where the arms attach to the body and then putting the vehicle weight down on the suspension to put it at ride height. Then you re-torque the bolts. Coilovers make this more problematic as the neutral height is adjustable. The point of doing this is to make it so that the bushings in the swing arms are not put under stress when the vehicle is at normal ride height. If, like most installers, you simply install the new springs and then set the car down you will be putting a lot of torsion on that bushing. Then, as your drive around, the bushings begin to fail and release that torsion; resulting in a slight drop in ride height. The thing is, those bushings are very important to the handling of the car. Adding that torsion to them can make then fail very prematurely.

Also, the bolts for the swing arms to chassis are torque to yield which means that should be replaced, which I bet most do not do either.

When I did the installation of my KW V1 coilovers in my 335 I did reindex the bushings properly. I set up the ride height how I wanted it and took measurements. I got it aligned immediately. I took measurements at intervals afterward and I did not see even a millimeter of "settling" in the ride height.
Good info! I am installing new shocks and springs this week and will follow this.
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