Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

it’s a circle jerk of negativity.

Well, to be fair, you read the title of this thread right? I mean, most of us were forced here ... but you know the rules of the CJ:

You're either in the circle or you're in the middle.

Don't complain because you choose the middle.

Just sayin

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Does this change your stance on the Gator?

ha, no. for me a full-size SUV is about an easy & accessible place to quickly put all my shit; for that the 'Gator has no competition.

I already have an over-powered cramped SUV

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Speaking of Toyo-baru's I just drove this tonight, the new BRZ. My friend traded his M2 comp for this as he already had a Mazda 3 daily and wanted something a bit more raw and lightweight and this fits the bill and put some money into other projects.

I have to say, Toyota/Subaru really made an excellent and most importantly, "affordable" (at least by modern pricing standards) sports car. The seating position is low, the manual transmission is great, the steering feels pure with real feedback and thankfully they fixed the horrible torque dip issues of the prior car. This new one while not obviously aimed for high-performance numbers being naturally aspirated and offering around 220hp and 180lb-ft torque, but weighing under 3,000lbs, which is pretty much limited to that of a Miata or Lotus, this thing is just a joy to flog around and offers some nostalgic feel of older generation sports cars. Also, it looks good too. I think the Toyota version looks better this time around but I have to say at least for now (until the image gets ruined with obscenely modded examples) its a very clean design with no fuss or gimmicks inside and out. Really the only thing that rivals this at its price point is once again the Miata, but this will of course reach a much wider audience due to its greater practicality and space.

Its gonna be a sad day when cars like this go away.

Attachment 2794937

Nice! This new gen definitely looks much better and by all accounts is an improvement I’ve the last gen. Very much a dying breed which is a shame. It’s a pipe dream but a low powered, lightweight BMW competitor to this would sell like hot cakes. Heck even a reverse Supra scenario where Toyota licenses and builds the 86 for BMW would be acceptable IMO!

Also thank you for bringing us back to our regularly scheduled programming

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Well, to be fair, you read the title of this thread right? I mean, most of us were forced here ... but you know the rules of the CJ:

You're either in the circle or you're in the middle.

Don't complain because you choose the middle.

Just sayin

Ok when someone's in the middle it's no longer a circle jerk. That would be bukkake

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Speaking of Toyo-baru's I just drove this tonight, the new BRZ. My friend traded his M2 comp for this as he already had a Mazda 3 daily and wanted something a bit more raw and lightweight and this fits the bill and put some money into other projects.

I have to say, Toyota/Subaru really made an excellent and most importantly, "affordable" (at least by modern pricing standards) sports car. The seating position is low, the manual transmission is great, the steering feels pure with real feedback and thankfully they fixed the horrible torque dip issues of the prior car. This new one while not obviously aimed for high-performance numbers being naturally aspirated and offering around 220hp and 180lb-ft torque, but weighing under 3,000lbs, which is pretty much limited to that of a Miata or Lotus, this thing is just a joy to flog around and offers some nostalgic feel of older generation sports cars. Also, it looks good too. I think the Toyota version looks better this time around but I have to say at least for now (until the image gets ruined with obscenely modded examples) its a very clean design with no fuss or gimmicks inside and out. Really the only thing that rivals this at its price point is once again the Miata, but this will of course reach a much wider audience due to its greater practicality and space.

Its gonna be a sad day when cars like this go away.

Attachment 2794937

I read the thread about the Mazda and I wish their dealership network wasn't so lacking. The nearest one to me is like... 15 miles away I think? The interior I didn't mind, reminded me of Audi without the tech.

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Nice! This new gen definitely looks much better and by all accounts is an improvement I’ve the last gen. Very much a dying breed which is a shame. It’s a pipe dream but a low powered, lightweight BMW competitor to this would sell like hot cakes. Heck even a reverse Supra scenario where Toyota licenses and builds the 86 for BMW would be acceptable IMO!

Also thank you for bringing us back to our regularly scheduled programming

I had given the 86 a thought too but think having two cars that does the same, regardless of price was redundant.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I had given the 86 a thought too but think having two cars that does the same, regardless of price was redundant.

Oh I don’t blame you, given the choice I would have the GT4 plus more money for tires and brakes!

[WagonR]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Speaking of Toyo-baru's I just drove this tonight, the new BRZ. My friend traded his M2 comp for this as he already had a Mazda 3 daily and wanted something a bit more raw and lightweight and this fits the bill and put some money into other projects.

I have to say, Toyota/Subaru really made an excellent and most importantly, "affordable" (at least by modern pricing standards) sports car. The seating position is low, the manual transmission is great, the steering feels pure with real feedback and thankfully they fixed the horrible torque dip issues of the prior car. This new one while not obviously aimed for high-performance numbers being naturally aspirated and offering around 220hp and 180lb-ft torque, but weighing under 3,000lbs, which is pretty much limited to that of a Miata or Lotus, this thing is just a joy to flog around and offers some nostalgic feel of older generation sports cars. Also, it looks good too. I think the Toyota version looks better this time around but I have to say at least for now (until the image gets ruined with obscenely modded examples) its a very clean design with no fuss or gimmicks inside and out. Really the only thing that rivals this at its price point is once again the Miata, but this will of course reach a much wider audience due to its greater practicality and space.

Its gonna be a sad day when cars like this go away.

Attachment 2794937

Okay, and now you're going to make me want to buy a 2016 BRZ Hyper Blue Series and then install a Cosworth supercharger. Smurf blue, with matching stitching, plus the linier power delivery with the supercharger, I'm a fan.

I actually had two of the Hyper Blues that I tired to pick up in 2017 that were remote and were sold to others even though I put down a deposit. Ended up with the M2. Picked up the M2 in San Diego, drove through Arizona, 4 corners, and some nice parts of Colorado before coming back to Oregon. No regrets, but damn, still kind of miss that dream of the perfect BRZ.

I know they're different platforms, but the BRZ is the closest thing in feeling to the 01' Integra Type R I owned. Not that I haven't driven better cars in the class: S2000 and new Civic Type R, for example, but still, the feel of the car, the BRZ/GR86 is closest in feel to me.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Ok when someone's in the middle it's no longer a circle jerk. That would be bukkake

you're the expert I guess

[GrussGott]

In zomg-the-configuator news:

Just FYI, Like everything Porsche (and Matt M) that's a 1 fucking hour video. 1 hour.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

This thread is exhausting. All of the Statler and Waldorf personalities from the whole forum have been corralled in here and it’s a circle jerk of negativity.

Congrats on your new car 02M3ForMe

Thank you - hope you’re still enjoying the GT350.

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Over on the G80 forum (https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1891792) there’s a lot of excitement around a new Road & Track article that claims the new M4 Competition xDrive is great to drive (true) and posted better lateral g numbers (2.05g) than every other car tested, including the new Porsche 911 GT3 (1.81g), Lamborghini Huracan STO (1.52g), Mercedes AMG GT Black Series (1.72g). That seems pretty unbelievable, especially if it’s a skidpad number, since Car & Driver rated the M3 Competition at 1.03g on the skidpad. But maybe it’s just the max lateral g registered by their accelerometer during the road course route.

Yes, it’s most likely an anomalous peak number with limited value as an indicator of the car’s realistic performance capabilities.

However, the M xDrive system is meaningfully different from conventional AWD setups like regular xDrive in that it only sends enough power up front to take advantage of any additional traction not used to turn the car, thrusting you out of corners without the normal AWD understeer. That’s additional performance over RWD setups that cannot be replicated by simply driving a non-M xDrive car harder or more skillfully.

What those numbers tell me is that a moderately tuned G80 xDrive delivering about 650hp will be an extremely potent track weapon.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

Over on the G80 forum (https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1891792) there’s a lot of excitement around a new Road & Track article that claims the new M4 Competition xDrive is great to drive (true) and posted better lateral g numbers (2.05g) than every other car tested, including the new Porsche 911 GT3 (1.81g), Lamborghini Huracan STO (1.52g), Mercedes AMG GT Black Series (1.72g). That seems pretty unbelievable, especially if it’s a skidpad number, since Car & Driver rated the M3 Competition at 1.03g on the skidpad. But maybe it’s just the max lateral g registered by their accelerometer during the road course route.

They seem to really have liked the Blackwing. Saying it was one of the best sports sedans of all time. Very high praise.

"The result isn’t just a brilliant sport sedan. It’s one of the best sport sedans of all time. It’s not the quickest in a straight line, and it wasn’t the quickest on track—Monticello’s tighter layout put the Blackwing fifth. None of that matters. No car besides the GT3 earned this kind of reaction. Every note about the Caddy was littered with exclamations and heart emoji, a flurry of love letters to a soon-to-be-bygone era."


They basically called the M4 a paper champ.

"On paper it’s a triumph. But much of the character from older M3s is still missing—the tactility, focus, and charisma. BMW can find its way back; the M2 CS is proof of that. But this fresh-from-the-womb M4 has room to improve."

[swagon]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

In zomg-the-configuator news:

Just FYI, Like everything Porsche (and Matt M) that's a 1 fucking hour video. 1 hour.

55k in options, 3k for headlights but skips the auto-dimming mirrors and rain sensor

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by M3WC

They seem to really have liked the Blackwing. Saying it was one of the best sports sedans of all time. Very high praise.

"The result isn’t just a brilliant sport sedan. It’s one of the best sport sedans of all time. It’s not the quickest in a straight line, and it wasn’t the quickest on track—Monticello’s tighter layout put the Blackwing fifth. None of that matters. No car besides the GT3 earned this kind of reaction. Every note about the Caddy was littered with exclamations and heart emoji, a flurry of love letters to a soon-to-be-bygone era."


They basically called the M4 a paper champ.

"On paper it’s a triumph. But much of the character from older M3s is still missing—the tactility, focus, and charisma. BMW can find its way back; the M2 CS is proof of that. But this fresh-from-the-womb M4 has room to improve."

I read the Road & Track Performance Car of the Year article this morning, very good, no surprises here but the GT3 won of course (as it should), but of the three finalists the Blackwing and 86 were also included and I definitely agree with them there, especially after driving the BRZ. I really got to get my hands on a Blackwing to drive though!

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Thank you - hope you’re still enjoying the GT350.



Yes, it’s most likely an anomalous peak number with limited value as an indicator of the car’s realistic performance capabilities.

However, the M xDrive system is meaningfully different from conventional AWD setups like regular xDrive in that it only sends enough power up front to take advantage of any additional traction not used to turn the car, thrusting you out of corners without the normal AWD understeer. That’s additional performance over RWD setups that cannot be replicated by simply driving a non-M xDrive car harder or more skillfully.

What those numbers tell me is that a moderately tuned G80 xDrive delivering about 650hp will be an extremely potent track weapon.

Funnily enough, the Apex taxi guys are pretty certain that xDrive won’t be faster for them (they even have a segment at the end explaining their choice). Their logic is driver skill and less weight will be even things out. They do have pro race drivers as taxi drivers so those guys are not comparable to your average HPDE enthusiast.

I think at G80 power levels and mere mortal skill levels, xDrive makes a lot of sense. If G87 has it with 6MT I’d be quite interested, would be a nice change to compliment my RWD F8X but BMW doesn’t make a xDrive that is compatible with 6MT

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Funnily enough, the Apex taxi guys are pretty certain that xDrive won’t be faster for them (they even have a segment at the end explaining their choice). Their logic is driver skill and less weight will be even things out. They do have pro race drivers as taxi drivers so those guys are not comparable to your average HPDE enthusiast.

I think at G80 power levels and mere mortal skill levels, xDrive makes a lot of sense. If G87 has it with 6MT I’d be quite interested, would be a nice change to compliment my RWD F8X but BMW doesn’t make a xDrive that is compatible with 6MT

It's very simple really.

xDrive helps when the tire patches do not offer optimal grip. This refers to most sport street tires dealing with 600+ Nm of engine torque.
But because radial track tires have much greater dry grip than any street sport could dream of, for track driving xDrive's additional weight negates any grip advantage you had under normal circumstances, and acts negatively due to the sheer weight you are carrying around the corners.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by WagonR

That's an interesting measure. It's definitely not the skidpad number. It's probably not a sustained through a corner number, but some sort of peak figure registered as you note.

Exactly this, a proper skid pad test would show real data for cornering g.

The mph they show for turn 11 is more indicative of corner grip.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Funnily enough, the Apex taxi guys are pretty certain that xDrive won’t be faster for them (they even have a segment at the end explaining their choice). Their logic is driver skill and less weight will be even things out. They do have pro race drivers as taxi drivers so those guys are not comparable to your average HPDE enthusiast.

I agree with them, on the Ring xdrive would net near zero. On a tighter track, digging out of slow corners is where xdrive would shine. M4 xdrive is like the R35 GTR of BMW's now.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Funnily enough, the Apex taxi guys are pretty certain that xDrive won’t be faster for them (they even have a segment at the end explaining their choice). Their logic is driver skill and less weight will be even things out. They do have pro race drivers as taxi drivers so those guys are not comparable to your average HPDE enthusiast.

I think at G80 power levels and mere mortal skill levels, xDrive makes a lot of sense. If G87 has it with 6MT I’d be quite interested, would be a nice change to compliment my RWD F8X but BMW doesn’t make a xDrive that is compatible with 6MT

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

It's very simple really.

xDrive helps when the tire patches do not offer optimal grip. This refers to most sport street tires dealing with 600+ Nm of engine torque.
But because radial track tires have much greater dry grip than any street sport could dream of, for track driving xDrive's additional weight negates any grip advantage you had under normal circumstances, and acts negatively due to the sheer weight you are carrying around the corners.

For the ~3% weight penalty, you go meaningfully faster in situations that would normally put an RWD car into oversteer. By both reducing torque to the spinning/slipping rear axle and shifting it to the underutilized front tires, M xDrive simultaneously cleans things up and propels you out of corners significantly quicker. A skilled driver can push harder in the M xDrive car, past the point where the rear tires would be overwhelmed in a non-M xDrive car. It's a pretty big deal for a high-powered front engine car.

Here's what R&T said about it.

"The rear-drive M3/M4 doesn’t really have a grip problem, but the way this one exits corners is simply ridiculous."

And this is what it looks like in practice. Mid-7 minute Ring lap, with traffic. 100% stock G80 xDrive on PSC2.

[Jockey]

Still a shake the most neutered version is the 6MT.

Yet another reason I'll never buy one.

xDrive is awesome but with a slush box that's a no for me

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

A skilled driver can push harder in the M xDrive car, past the point where the rear tires would be overwhelmed in a non-M xDrive car. It's a pretty big deal for a high-powered front engine car.

But this precisely what Apex disagrees with you on, their position is that they can go as fast or faster with RWD only. For mere mortals sure it is a plus (i’d certainly want it for a g chassis car), but for pro drivers and guys who build ring cars? Remains to be seen

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

But this precisely what Apex disagrees with you on, their position is that they can go as fast or faster with RWD only. For mere mortals sure it is a plus (i’d certainly want it for a g chassis car), but for pro drivers and guys who build ring cars? Remains to be seen

We're still waiting on more lap time data, so we'll see. Pros/reviewers who have actually driven the xDrive all seem to note the even better cornering, but that's subjective. ApexTaxi guy admits to not knowing much about how specifically M xDrive works or is set up. I don't think he's driven it.

Interesting to see at 2:54 of the Ring video, the 992 C2S goes into oversteer with the G80 xDrive on its tail taking a tighter line.

[Mavus]

simply put on fast tracks aero is king