Trade values

[djarchow]

Lots of talk here about potentially getting good deals from dealers due to Corona. Has anyone gotten trade values from a dealer lately?

I had Vroom give me an offer on March 13th for my 2018 M2 (exec, DCT, 18k miles) and they offered $39500. Today, they offered me $25k.

[Mar48]

Wow, that’s crazy... honestly though makes sense they are only looking for home runs only...

[23109VC]

If trades are that bad now - imagine how cheap they would end up flipping it for to make a fast buck... distressed sales coming... someone with a nice M3/M4 will lose their job and need to let it go fast - sad to profit off someone else's loss. I suspect it will happen more and more as this crisis continues

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

If trades are that bad now - imagine how cheap they would end up flipping it for to make a fast buck... distressed sales coming... someone with a nice M3/M4 will lose their job and need to let it go fast - sad to profit off someone else's loss. I suspect it will happen more and more as this crisis continues

Then they are living beyond their means. If you're buying an expensive car like an M3/M4 on leverage, you're an idiot to begin with.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Then they are living beyond their means. If you're buying an expensive car like an M3/M4 on leverage, you're an idiot to begin with.

Huh? Prob 90%+ of car owners either lease or take out a loan. That doesn't mean they are living beyond their means. Also, it's quite common for people to get rid of expensive luxury items during an economic downturn. Again, doesn't mean they are living beyond their means.

[23109VC]

Even if the cars weren't recently traded - I'm still curious what kind of markup is typically done in used cars - assume fits a lot there may be more room for a dealer to reduce pricing in a used M3 vs a new car

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Then they are living beyond their means. If you're buying an expensive car like an M3/M4 on leverage, you're an idiot to begin with.

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Huh? Prob 90%+ of car owners either lease or take out a loan. That doesn't mean they are living beyond their means. Also, it's quite common for people to get rid of expensive luxury items during an economic downturn. Again, doesn't mean they are living beyond their means.

If you're supposed to have 6 months worth of expenses in cash savings for a rainy day, do you really still need to sell your M3/M4 this early on? I mean, if you own a luxury car like an M3/M4, shouldn't you have at least 6 months of cash on hand for situations like this. If not, that's a sign that you're living beyond your means.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't lease or have a loan on a car. Why wouldn't you if interest rates are incredibly low. But if you weren't able to pay cash for the car at the time, then you couldn't afford it. It's really that simple.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

If you're supposed to have 6 months worth of expenses in cash savings for a rainy day, do you really still need to sell your M3/M4 this early on? I mean, if you own a luxury car like an M3/M4, shouldn't you have at least 6 months of cash on hand for situations like this. If not, that's a sign that you're living beyond your means.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't lease or have a loan on a car. Why wouldn't you if interest rates are incredibly low. But if you weren't able to pay cash for the car at the time, then you couldn't afford it. It's really that simple.

I think most people would rather use their emergency fund for, you know, emergency items like food and shelter. Certainly an M3 is not a necessity worthy of depleting an emergency fund over.

But you obv own your house and cars outright and have no debt so I guess it's not a big deal to you.

Also you said anyone who uses leverage to buy an M3/4 is an idiot and can't really afford it. Then when I called that out you said loans are fine. Which is it?

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I think most people would rather use their emergency fund for, you know, emergency items like food and shelter. Certainly an M3 is not a necessity worthy of depleting an emergency fund over.

But you obv own your house and cars outright and have no debt so I guess it's not a big deal to you.

Also you said anyone who uses leverage to buy an M3/4 is an idiot and can't really afford it. Then when I called that out you said loans are fine. Which is it?

I'd only sell a car if my emergency fund looked like it was going to be depleted. It wouldn't be at month 1 or month 2 into a 6+ month reserve of cash that most people recommend you keep on hand for these just in case scenarios.

If the interest rate on a loan is incredibly low and your cash could make a much higher return elsewhere, then it makes sense to have a car loan. The key is that your assets need to be liquid. How liquid? More liquid than needing to sell your car 1 o 2 months into a dry spell. Either that or have a source of income that is resistant to these economic shocks.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I'd only sell a car if my emergency fund looked like it was going to be depleted. It wouldn't be at month 1 or month 2 into a 6+ month reserve of cash that most people recommend you keep on hand for these just in case scenarios.

If the interest rate on a loan is incredibly low and your cash could make a much higher return elsewhere, then it makes sense to have a car loan. The key is that your assets need to be liquid. How liquid? More liquid than needing to sell your car 1 o 2 months into a dry spell. Either that or have a source of income that is resistant to these economic shocks.

No need to espouse the virtues of investing and earning more than the rate on your note. You can just admit that you initially misspoke and that simply using leverage to acquire a vehicle has nothing to do with whether you can afford it or not.

As for waiting until your emergency fund looks like it may be depleted, I would certainly say it's too late at that point. You seem to indicate that this is nothing more than a 1-2 month dip and everything will immediately go back to normal after that. I absolutely hope you are correct on that but unfortunately it seems unlikely. If one were 4+ months into his emergency fund with no prospects in sight I bet that person would wish they got rid of their expensive German car in month 1 instead of wasting money on something they didn't need. There will always be a ton of M3s out there and it's easy enough to buy another one when the time is right. But you can't get back they money you spent on it once it's gone, money that can be used to support yourself and family when times are tough.

Anyway, didn't mean to harp on this but I have just seen too many posts criticizing people for "not being able to afford" their car and minimizing the financial impact that the coronavirus is having on the economy. Try having some empathy instead of being critical.

[23109VC]

I bet 99% of Americans don't even have 6 days of emergency funds.. and the lotto is their "retirement" plan... 😀

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

No need to espouse the virtues of investing and earning more than the rate on your note. You can just admit that you initially misspoke and that simply using leverage to acquire a vehicle has nothing to do with whether you can afford it or not.

As for waiting until your emergency fund looks like it may be depleted, I would certainly say it's too late at that point. You seem to indicate that this is nothing more than a 1-2 month dip and everything will immediately go back to normal after that. I absolutely hope you are correct on that but unfortunately it seems unlikely. If one were 4+ months into his emergency fund with no prospects in sight I bet that person would wish they got rid of their expensive German car in month 1 instead of wasting money on something they didn't need. There will always be a ton of M3s out there and it's easy enough to buy another one when the time is right. But you can't get back they money you spent on it once it's gone, money that can be used to support yourself and family when times are tough.

Anyway, didn't mean to harp on this but I have just seen too many posts criticizing people for "not being able to afford" their car and minimizing the financial impact that the coronavirus is having on the economy. Try having some empathy instead of being critical.

What I've noticed is that the people least able to afford these cars are usually the ones that are the most butthurt.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

What I've noticed is that the people least able to afford these cars are usually the ones that are the most butthurt.

And I find that people who go out of their way to criticize others are usually the do as i say, not as I do type

Good luck with all of your riches and your M3.

[M3PGH]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

No need to espouse the virtues of investing and earning more than the rate on your note. You can just admit that you initially misspoke and that simply using leverage to acquire a vehicle has nothing to do with whether you can afford it or not.

As for waiting until your emergency fund looks like it may be depleted, I would certainly say it's too late at that point. You seem to indicate that this is nothing more than a 1-2 month dip and everything will immediately go back to normal after that. I absolutely hope you are correct on that but unfortunately it seems unlikely. If one were 4+ months into his emergency fund with no prospects in sight I bet that person would wish they got rid of their expensive German car in month 1 instead of wasting money on something they didn't need. There will always be a ton of M3s out there and it's easy enough to buy another one when the time is right. But you can't get back they money you spent on it once it's gone, money that can be used to support yourself and family when times are tough.

Anyway, didn't mean to harp on this but I have just seen too many posts criticizing people for "not being able to afford" their car and minimizing the financial impact that the coronavirus is having on the economy. Try having some empathy instead of being critical.

the problem with this approach is most likely to get rid of your car after one month will cost you several thousands, because most likely you have negative equity selling at the bottom of the market.
6 months emergency fund should include all expenses including the car
I hope that all projections are wrong and we will have a V shaped recovery

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by M3PGH

the problem with this approach is most likely to get rid of your car after one month will cost you several thousands, because most likely you have negative equity selling at the bottom of the market.
6 months emergency fund should include all expenses including the car
I hope that all projections are wrong and we will have a V shaped recovery

Why would month one of a pandemic be the bottom and not month four?

Anyway, clearly I have different values and am more conservative than you and the other guy arguing. If facing extended financial hardship, an expensive German car would not be high on my priority list to maintain.

[M3PGH]

it is not about values , it is about playing the odds
what I am saying is that the consensus/hope is this might be a short lived event for few months and the feds and government are throwing a lot of money to help accelerate the rebound
also there is a big price for getting rid of a car at this time which might be more than keeping the car and riding the storm
so if someone get rid of their car now and it cost them 10 k to do that as the current outlook is bleak, , and lets say their monthly payment is 1 k a month , so this is 10 month worth of payments
and this is where a good emergency fund allows people to have a choice of keeping the car and avoid massive loss because they have to make a quick sale
if the consensus is wrong and the world enters a depression , then all odds are off

[Mar48]

So you guys are saying I should wait a little to buy my F80? Okay... I'll try to be patient.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by M3PGH

it is not about values , it is about playing the odds
what I am saying is that the consensus/hope is this might be a short lived event for few months and the feds and government are throwing a lot of money to help accelerate the rebound
also there is a big price for getting rid of a car at this time which might be more than keeping the car and riding the storm
so if someone get rid of their car now and it cost them 10 k to do that as the current outlook is bleak, , and lets say their monthly payment is 1 k a month , so this is 10 month worth of payments
and this is where a good emergency fund allows people to have a choice of keeping the car and avoid massive loss because they have to make a quick sale
if the consensus is wrong and the world enters a depression , then all odds are off

The only thing the Fed is doing is throwing away money putting off the inevitable. Instead of seeing a wave of BK's and foreclosures now, we will see them in 9-12 months extending the length of the recession. A lot of the companies asking for funds are zombie companies that are already out of business, they just haven't admitted it yet.

BTW the programs the Fed and the Federal Government have announced are equivalent to handing every man, woman and child a check for over $13K. Anyone want to tell me how all 340M people in the US are going to spend $13K less in 4 weeks? Every. Single. One.

The government is just handing companies like American Airlines bailouts after they spent $29B repurchasing their stock while their CEO got on stage in front of their largest investors they would NEVER LOSE MONEY AGAIN. How prepared do you think they were for an inevitable down turn? That is one example of hundreds of companies.

Everything will be on sale soon, cars, houses, watches, everything. The only people selling right now are the ones that are forced to sell. That is why you saw a $25K offer on your car. They know that it will be sitting on the lot for months.

[JoeGunn]

Dealers aren’t being very aggressive with their pricing yet from my experience. Been in the Market for 16/17 M3 or M4 with Manual trans. Throwing some lowball offers that aren’t insulting by any means and they’ll come down like $500 haha Guess I’ll be waiting

[23109VC]

Originally Posted by JoeGunn

Dealers aren’t being very aggressive with their pricing yet from my experience. Been in the Market for 16/17 M3 or M4 with Manual trans. Throwing some lowball offers that aren’t insulting by any means and they’ll come down like $500 haha Guess I’ll be waiting

I've also been emailing dealerships asking for offers and incentives on both leases for M4's and CPO vehicles. I've had no luck finding any real "deals" or dealers willing to reduce prices.

One dealership in Southern California flat out told me that their prices are already discounted and there's no negotiating. I then got an email a week later from the same sales guy telling me he sold 2 M4's on the weekend...

Well I assume there may be more demand and interest in enthusiast vehicles like M3 and M4... The market is the market and if used car prices are dropping and people are losing their jobs they are going to be less potential buyers and prices are going to have to come down. I'm not an expert but if I was looking to buy I think I would want to hang on for a couple more months and watch what happens


The cars are going to continue to come
Off lease, and the prices sure as hell are not going to go up ...so waiting only gives you the potential to see prices drop if it happens.

[Ducguy46]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Then they are living beyond their means. If you're buying an expensive car like an M3/M4 on leverage, you're an idiot to begin with.

I lived in Miami for 13 years...I think living beyond your means was the expectation then but again this was prior to the 07 crash so hopefully lessons learned. I recall meeting guys who drove new 911's, Benz's and BMW's but lived in a crappy studio where they'd park their car at someone else house just to not have it stolen. It only mattered that you got a prime spot in front of the club. I do agree there will be deals to be had as auto loan defaults are already going up. People will skip a car payment 1st vs. a credit card payment (your lifeline) or a mortgage/rent payment (prime necessity is a roof over your head. With Uber or other forms of transportation and ability to work from home (proven now to be effective in many workplaces that were against this prior to the pandemic) the car payment drops down the list in terms of priority hence deals to come with low mileage vehicles. The state of CA is considering a 10 year auto loan as cost of living expenses have sky rocketed compared to income. Having cash on hand now and within the next 6-12 months will help you get some deals. The super high end cars won't dip as much or they will continue to go up but that's the norm even in a downturn economy.

[Youneversal]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

I've also been emailing dealerships asking for offers and incentives on both leases for M4's and CPO vehicles. I've had no luck finding any real "deals" or dealers willing to reduce prices.

One dealership in Southern California flat out told me that their prices are already discounted and there's no negotiating. I then got an email a week later from the same sales guy telling me he sold 2 M4's on the weekend...

Well I assume there may be more demand and interest in enthusiast vehicles like M3 and M4... The market is the market and if used car prices are dropping and people are losing their jobs they are going to be less potential buyers and prices are going to have to come down. I'm not an expert but if I was looking to buy I think I would want to hang on for a couple more months and watch what happens


The cars are going to continue to come
Off lease, and the prices sure as hell are not going to go up ...so waiting only gives you the potential to see prices drop if it happens.

I've also been shopping around for an 18 M3 nationwide but I think I actually got a "no brainer" deal for a frozen blue M3 CS with just over 4k miles. It was priced on Autotrader at 62k which was significantly lower than any other CS I've seen so far. I asked for pictures and the Las Vegas dealer replied within the hour. I liked the car but I wasn't exactly looking for a CS and noted that to the agent.

A day or so later he reached out to me again and told me to send him an offer "the worst we can say is no." I offered 57k and he replied that the sales manager was ok with that and sent me an invoice to sign and set up a deposit to secure the car. Seemed like a GREAT deal for a low mileage rare colored CS.