Sport Cup 2 for ZCP M3/M4???

[F82FTW]

Does anyone know if it's possible to get Sport Cup 2's for the standard 666M's wheels on the ZCP cars?

I know the M4 GTS has a 19/20 setup so there's a difference there, but I'm curious what you guys have been doing for tire upgrades on a ZCP.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

Does anyone know if it's possible to get Sport Cup 2's for the standard 666M's wheels on the ZCP cars?

I know the M4 GTS has a 19/20 setup so there's a difference there, but I'm curious what you guys have been doing for tire upgrades on a ZCP.

You'd have to run a 245/35/20 and 285/30/20 cup 2 setup. That's the only size that would work well for cup 2. The height of both 245/35/20 and 285/30/20 are the same, so not much DCS / TCS intervention.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

You'd have to run a 245/35/20 and 285/30/20 cup 2 setup. That's the only size that would work well for cup 2. The height of both 245/35/20 and 285/30/20 are the same, so not much DCS / TCS intervention.

I appreciate the reply!

Wouldn't a 245 section front SC2 be too narrow/counterproductive compared with the 265 PSS though?

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

I appreciate the reply!

Wouldn't a 245 section front SC2 be too narrow/counterproductive compared with the 265 PSS though?

The 245/35/20 (N0 porsche) pilot cup 2 have a tread width of 9.6"

The 265/30/20 (* BMW) pilot super sport have a tread width of 8.9"

So the 245 cups are actually wider. The 265 bmw spec oem PSS run thin for 265s. Even if the 245 was actually thinner than the 265, the compound would still make the cup 2s stickier.. apples to oranges

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

The 245/35/20 (N0 porsche) pilot cup 2 have a tread width of 9.6"

The 265/30/20 (* BMW) pilot super sport have a tread width of 8.9"

So the 245 cups are actually wider. The 265 bmw spec oem PSS run thin for 265s. Even if the 245 was actually thinner than the 265, the compound would still make the cup 2s stickier.. apples to oranges

Appreciate quality info.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

The 245/35/20 (N0 porsche) pilot cup 2 have a tread width of 9.6"

The 265/30/20 (* BMW) pilot super sport have a tread width of 8.9"

So the 245 cups are actually wider. The 265 bmw spec oem PSS run thin for 265s. Even if the 245 was actually thinner than the 265, the compound would still make the cup 2s stickier.. apples to oranges

Wow that's great to know!! Thank you!!!

[M3ZING]

I asked about this a while ago and someone was running 275 / 325 cup2s with no issues

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by M3ZING

I asked about this a while ago and someone was running 275 / 325 cup2s with no issues

1) they don't make a 275 cup in 20s
2) whoever you asked wasn't running 20s
3) even if you could run those sizes, they are too wide for OEM ZCP 9 and 10 inch setup.

[M3ZING]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

1) they don't make a 275 cup in 20s
2) whoever you asked wasn't running 20s
3) even if you could run those sizes, they are too wide for OEM ZCP 9 and 10 inch setup.

I said someone posted that on a thread here, i didnt say i achieved it.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

The 245/35/20 (N0 porsche) pilot cup 2 have a tread width of 9.6"

The 265/30/20 (* BMW) pilot super sport have a tread width of 8.9"

So the 245 cups are actually wider. The 265 bmw spec oem PSS run thin for 265s. Even if the 245 was actually thinner than the 265, the compound would still make the cup 2s stickier.. apples to oranges

Where did you find that detailed info on the factory ZCP PSS? Not that I don't trust you..but I want to read up on all the variables and confirm before ordering an $1800 set of SC2s..

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by M3ZING

I said someone posted that on a thread here, i didnt say i achieved it.

I said "whoever you asked wasn't running 20s",I never said you achieved it.. I was cutting that thought out of the OP so he wouldn't assume running that size is ok, or if that even was an option, because it isn't

Originally Posted by F82FTW

Where did you find that detailed info on the factory ZCP PSS? Not that I don't trust you..but I want to read up on all the variables and confirm before ordering an $1800 set of SC2s..

Click this link to tire rack and click specs.
Pilot cup 2
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ot+Sport+Cup+2

PSS ZCP Shows only the tread width, not the section width, but the tread width is the contact patch size, so it gives you a good idea as compared to normal PSS or Cup 2s.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ot+Super+Sport

I had a little chart I made comparing similar sizes in 20s, for my own reference for 20x9 20x10 setup
Tire Section Width Tread Width
Hankook EVO2 255/30/20 10.2" 9"
Hankook Evo2 275/30/20 10.9" 9.8"
Michelin PSS 255/30/20 10.2" 8.8"
Michelin CUP2 245/35/20 9.8" 9.6"
Michelin CUP2 265/35/20 10.9" 10.1"
Michelin PSS 265/30/20 8.9" (ZCP BMW *) (Only tread width listed)
Michelin PSS 265/30/20 10.7" 10"
Michelin PSS 275/30/20 10.9" 10.1"
Michelin PSS 285/30/20 11.4" 10.2"
Michelin PSS K1 285/30/20 11.4" 9.5" (Ferrari)

The number on the far right is tread width, and the numerical value directly to its left is section width (if available)

They don't have specs yet for 285/30/20 ZCP that I can find, but by looking at the 285/30/20 ZCP vs a standard PSS ZCP you'll notice the sidewalls are stretched vs squared off. So it'll definitely run thin as well.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

I said "whoever you asked wasn't running 20s",I never said you achieved it.. I was cutting that thought out of the OP so he wouldn't assume running that size is ok, or if that even was an option, because it isn't

Click this link to tire rack and click specs.
Pilot cup 2
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ot+Sport+Cup+2

PSS ZCP Shows only the tread width, not the section width, but the tread width is the contact patch size, so it gives you a good idea as compared to normal PSS or Cup 2s.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ot+Super+Sport

I had a little chart I made comparing similar sizes in 20s, for my own reference for 20x9 20x10 setup
Tire Section Width Tread Width
Hankook EVO2 255/30/20 10.2" 9"
Hankook Evo2 275/30/20 10.9" 9.8"
Michelin PSS 255/30/20 10.2" 8.8"
Michelin CUP2 245/35/20 9.8" 9.6"
Michelin CUP2 265/35/20 10.9" 10.1"
Michelin PSS 265/30/20 8.9" (ZCP BMW *) (Only tread width listed)
Michelin PSS 265/30/20 10.7" 10"
Michelin PSS 275/30/20 10.9" 10.1"
Michelin PSS 285/30/20 11.4" 10.2"
Michelin PSS K1 285/30/20 11.4" 9.5" (Ferrari)

The number on the far right is tread width, and the numerical value directly to its left is section width (if available)

They don't have specs yet for 285/30/20 ZCP that I can find, but by looking at the 285/30/20 ZCP vs a standard PSS ZCP you'll notice the sidewalls are stretched vs squared off. So it'll definitely run thin as well.

This is fantastic info. Thank you!!

My curiosity is understanding why the * spec ZCP PSS is narrower and more importantly how that(changing that) will affect driving dynamics/steering response.

For example, the SC2 having a wider contact patch in spite of the 245 section...setting aside the massively stickier compound, how would that difference in width affect turn in and steering responsiveness?

[ryank382]

Is section width just the contact patch and tread width the width of the entire tread? Subbed for great info being shared on tire knowledge lol

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

This is fantastic info. Thank you!!

My curiosity is understanding why the * spec ZCP PSS is narrower and more importantly how that(changing that) will affect driving dynamics/steering response.

For example, the SC2 having a wider contact patch in spite of the 245 section...setting aside the massively stickier compound, how would that difference in width affect turn in and steering responsiveness?

Thicker / stickier tires can make the steering feel heavier, but that's about it for the negatives (if you want to call it that, it doesn't bother me)

Other than that.. the two tires are not in the same class, the Cup 2 will offer better performance any day of the year, outside of cold / wet conditions, in which they aren't designed for.

Again PSS = Street tire, CUP 2 = track tire that's "ok" to drive on the street. Cup 2s wear out fast, need warm weather in order to work to their potential. The performance of Cup2 >>>> PSS any day of the year. Doesn't matter what size PSS you choose the Cup 2 will still be better suited for performance, whether that be straight line grip / turn in / braking / heat capacity / etc.

These two tires really shouldn't be compared, they serve entirely different purposes..

Originally Posted by ryank382

Is section width just the contact patch and tread width the width of the entire tread? Subbed for great info being shared on tire knowledge lol

Section width = Sidewall to sidewall at widest point
Tread Width = The width of tread that can touch the ground, also known as the contact patch

Lot of runflat tires or OEM tires have a larger section width to protect the wheel, but usually run thinner tread widths. Not sure why, but it's the case for a lot of OE tires.. (K1, Star Spec, etc) It could be due to the ability to fit chains.

The problem with comparing section / tread widths between multiple manufacturers is they all measure themselves and report the numbers, but there is room for interpretation; click here

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=201

Comparing tire sizes under one manufacturer is more consistent.

[ryank382]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Section width = Sidewall to sidewall at widest point
Tread Width = The width of tread that can touch the ground, also known as the contact patch

Lot of runflat tires or OEM tires have a larger section width to protect the wheel, but usually run thinner tread widths. Not sure why, but it's the case for a lot of OE tires.. (K1, Star Spec, etc) It could be due to the ability to fit chains.

The problem with comparing section / tread widths between multiple manufacturers is they all measure themselves and report the numbers, but there is room for interpretation; click here

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=201

Comparing tire sizes under one manufacturer is more consistent.

You said tread width is contact patch but contact patch changes according to PSI correct? So is tread width simply the width of the tread from the beginning of the inner sidewall to the other inner sidewall or do they measure contact patch at a certain PSI? Maybe I'm overthinking it but just wanted to clarify lol. Thanks

Edit:just read the tire rack link makes more sense. Thank you for the info helps a lot!

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Thicker / stickier tires can make the steering feel heavier, but that's about it for the negatives (if you want to call it that, it doesn't bother me)

Other than that.. the two tires are not in the same class, the Cup 2 will offer better performance any day of the year, outside of cold / wet conditions, in which they aren't designed for.

Again PSS = Street tire, CUP 2 = track tire that's "ok" to drive on the street. Cup 2s wear out fast, need warm weather in order to work to their potential. The performance of Cup2 >>>> PSS any day of the year. Doesn't matter what size PSS you choose the Cup 2 will still be better suited for performance, whether that be straight line grip / turn in / braking / heat capacity / etc.

These two tires really shouldn't be compared, they serve entirely different purposes..



Section width = Sidewall to sidewall at widest point
Tread Width = The width of tread that can touch the ground, also known as the contact patch

Lot of runflat tires or OEM tires have a larger section width to protect the wheel, but usually run thinner tread widths. Not sure why, but it's the case for a lot of OE tires.. (K1, Star Spec, etc) It could be due to the ability to fit chains.

The problem with comparing section / tread widths between multiple manufacturers is they all measure themselves and report the numbers, but there is room for interpretation; click here

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=201

Comparing tire sizes under one manufacturer is more consistent.

First of all thank you again for your input here...it's super helpful and much appreciated!

To make sure I am on the same page, the general consensus is that switching to the wider(physically) 245 SC2 in the front will make the steering feel slightly heavier, and therefore turn in could be said to be less 'sharp', in spite of drastically higher grip levels, and the inherent increased cornering performance that goes along with that.

Am I about right?

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

First of all thank you again for your input here...it's super helpful and much appreciated!

To make sure I am on the same page, the general consensus is that switching to the wider(physically) 245 SC2 in the front will make the steering feel slightly heavier, and therefore turn in could be said to be less 'sharp', in spite of drastically higher grip levels, and the inherent increased cornering performance that goes along with that.

Am I about right?

Depends on what you mean by sharp, the higher levels of grip will be pretty "sharp". I guess the front end could feel a tad heavier, but I doubt it. I don't think the steering feel will change much, and cup 2s are an upgrade everywhere in terms of performance.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Depends on what you mean by sharp, the higher levels of grip will be pretty "sharp". I guess the front end could feel a tad heavier, but I doubt it. I don't think the steering feel will change much, and cup 2s are an upgrade everywhere in terms of performance.

I'm with ya!

Any suggestions for determining fitment/clearance with the wider SC2's without buying a $2k set of tires and hoping for the best?

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

I'm with ya!

Any suggestions for determining fitment/clearance with the wider SC2's without buying a $2k set of tires and hoping for the best?

Many people have ran 245/35/20, 275/30, in front without rubbing already. I've personally tried up to a 255/35/20 (even taller than a 245/35), with no issues. I recommend 245/35/20 height as the max for the front using a cup2, as it'd be about equal height to a 285/30.. long story short, you'll be fine, unless you are slamming the hell out of your car and spacing your wheels out, in which you'd likely just rub the fender liners (barely) in front / behind your wheel upon steering lock.

Another option for extreme performance summer tire is the Re71r. They make it in 245/35/20 and also in 295/30/20, for about half the cost of cup 2.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by JamesGames

Many people have ran 245/35/20, 275/30, in front without rubbing already. I've personally tried up to a 255/35/20 (even taller than a 245/35), with no issues. I recommend 245/35/20 height as the max for the front using a cup2, as it'd be about equal height to a 285/30.. long story short, you'll be fine, unless you are slamming the hell out of your car and spacing your wheels out, in which you'd likely just rub the fender liners (barely) in front / behind your wheel upon steering lock.

Another option for extreme performance summer tire is the Re71r. They make it in 245/35/20 and also in 295/30/20, for about half the cost of cup 2.

Great info!! Thank you so much!

I will check out the Bridgestone as well. Would that be a similar width to the sc2 as discussed above?

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

Great info!! Thank you so much!

I will check out the Bridgestone as well. Would that be a similar width to the sc2 as discussed above?

Yea, similar, because the only size that they make to fit the front wheel would be 245/35/20. Tirerack lists widths as 9.8 and 9.1 for section / tread width respectively, and for 295/30/20 (the only size that would be "ok") is 11.9 and 10.7 for section / tread.

[RowanBuds]

For what it's worth (and 19's), I went from 255/35/19 up front to 275/35, both MPSS Star Spec, and was worried turn in may numb a bit. To be honest, I ended up feeling that turn in bite was a bit more instant after making the swap. Full disclosure I only ran 255's for 1200 miles, and been on the 275 for 13k.