Carbon Ceramic brakes

[aus]

Originally Posted by mattwhite

Some thoughts on ceramics from a former GT3 owner. Note that ceramics on a GT3 didn't get you any more performance or fade resistance than steel - both were bulletproof in those departments. Main benefit is unsprung weight.

- Most track rats run steel. You'll wear out ceramics with heavy track use and the cost to replace will be more than the initial option price. I've seen ceramics on a 996 GT3 shatter at the track. I think Porsche fixed this when going to the 997.

- the option price on a 997 GT3 was about $10,000, and they hold about 1/2 of this value on resale versus a car with steel brakes.

- for street use, you might come out even or ahead on cost with ceramics if you keep the car long enough.

- be very careful who you take your ceramic equipped car to for tire changes, etc., these things can be ruined easily.

That's pretty much what I've read on a couple Porsche forums.
Another thing to consider is it GREATLY limits what pads you can use. If you use the wrong pads, you ccan kill a pair of CCB rotors in a track weekend.

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[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

There has been a dialogue going on these in the Pricing thread. Thought I would try to move that discussion to here and I found this technical document on the M6/M5 CC brakes that may be of interest to many.

Thanks for sharing this. It was a very good read. If they are able to offer this system for the same price as the RS5 ($6000 MSRP) that will be a very good deal.

[Rookie84]

In the Porsches, one reason to get the PCCB is the larger rotor sizes vs. steelies.

For the initial cost and the necessity for delicate handling, I think I will go with good old steelies as long as the rotors and calipers are the same. I do plan to track my car so I don't want to go through the trouble of swapping out the CCB rotors for steelies anyway.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Rookie84

In the Porsches, one reason to get the PCCB is the larger rotor sizes vs. steelies.

For the initial cost and the necessity for delicate handling, I think I will go with good old steelies as long as the rotors and calipers are the same. I do plan to track my car so I don't want to go through the trouble of swapping out the CCB rotors for steelies anyway.

On the M5 and M6 the CCB rotors and calipers are huge compared to the steel. Very big difference in size. Not that the steel rotors look too small but they dwarf compared to the CCBs. They look awesome and have a serious bite. You can feel the difference but to me the steel are more than sufficient for road use.

[BigMacSmallFries]

Why are the CCB $9250 in the US, and $6500 in Canada for the M5?

Assuming prices hold, I wouldn't be surprised if they cost $5500 in Canada in which case it's worth buying.

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries

Why are the CCB $9250 in the US, and $6500 in Canada for the M5?

Assuming prices hold, I wouldn't be surprised if they cost $5500 in Canada in which case it's worth buying.

Maybe they only do the fronts in Canada?

[gee-m-w]

Originally Posted by Rookie84

In the Porsches, one reason to get the PCCB is the larger rotor sizes vs. steelies.

For the initial cost and the necessity for delicate handling, I think I will go with good old steelies as long as the rotors and calipers are the same. I do plan to track my car so I don't want to go through the trouble of swapping out the CCB rotors for steelies anyway.

News flash: you can track with the CCB. If I order them I'll run a race pad from Pagid full time. I run race pads on my S4 steel discs with no issues.

http://www.pagidracing.com/products/pagid-rsc/

[BigMacSmallFries]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

Maybe they only do the fronts in Canada?

No, they're all around. Sounds like the accountants decided on the price in the US.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

News flash: you can track with the CCB. If I order them I'll run a race pad from Pagid full time. I run race pads on my S4 steel discs with no issues.

http://www.pagidracing.com/products/pagid-rsc/

I just talked to my Pagid guy and his feeling is still to go with steel brakes as the CCB's will not have great durability for heavy track day duty especially with a dedicated ceramic track pad.I go through front rotors on my Stoptech 380/355 setup about every 12 days of track use or 2 changes of pads due to heat checking.

[F82_SID]

Not sure if you guys have seen this or not but I just found this video of BMW engineers talking about the CCBs. Pretty interesting. Some key points that I think are notable are the fact that they confirm there is not electronic parking break in the M3/M4 and that they consciously made an effort to make CCBs that dont squeak as much as others do.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by E92_SID

Not sure if you guys have seen this or not but I just found this video of BMW engineers talking about the CCBs. Pretty interesting. Some key points that I think are notable are the fact that they confirm there is not electronic parking break in the M3/M4 and that they consciously made an effort to make CCBs that dont squeak as much as others do.

interesting that the reason that the M5/6 CCB's get stuck with those crappy sliding caliper rear brakes (which is not to say they're insufficient) is that they integrate an electric parking brake, whereas the M3/4 interiors integrate a manual parking brake, so they get a better 4-piston rear caliper. win/win.

[iPhone vs Android]

What does everyone think about CCBs for everyday driving? Do they provide additional stopping power or do they just improve the brakes fading in track in which case people not tracking the car would be wasting their money? There is of course their extremely long lifetime but for people leasing the car that also makes no sense.

I may be overgeneralizing in which case I apologize, would be happy if someone points me in the right direction.

[Swancoat]

Much less brake dust! Very attractive reason to get them, although no way would I pay up 6000-7000 just for less brake dust. (I'd probably be embarrassed to find out what that number actually is though).

[Black Gold]

pretty much just for bling unless you have a ton of cash

pluses

-less brake dust
-longer life (assuming they don't get damaged, which is easier to do than steel)
-good brake feel and lack of fade

minuses

-very expensive
-not covered under BMW maintenance
-lack of aftermarket pads for the track
-wear quickly on the track
-very expensive to replace

There is absolutely no way I would ever pay for ceramic brakes. I personally think it is a huge waste of money.

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

pretty much just for bling unless you have a ton of cash

pluses

-less brake dust
-longer life (assuming they don't get damaged, which is easier to do than steel)
-good brake feel and lack of fade

minuses

-very expensive
-not covered under BMW maintenance
-lack of aftermarket pads for the track
-wear quickly on the track
-very expensive to replace

There is absolutely no way I would ever pay for ceramic brakes. I personally think it is a huge waste of money.

Oh snap! Didn't know Bmw service didn't cover them. Wow forget that!

[jbockrd]

BMW service should cover them. My CA said they do. Aside from that, I am not tracking the car enough nor standing on the break for tight turns, so i'd rather spend the money elsewhere

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by jbockrd

BMW service should cover them. My CA said they do. Aside from that, I am not tracking the car enough nor standing on the break for tight turns, so i'd rather spend the money elsewhere

They didn't cover them previously.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by jbockrd

BMW service should cover them. My CA said they do. Aside from that, I am not tracking the car enough nor standing on the break for tight turns, so i'd rather spend the money elsewhere

they are not good for the track because they wear out rotors quickly and there are not a lot of good track pads available.

not to mention replacing ceramic brake rotors and pads is extremely expensive.

the standard setup with good fluid and a track pad will be all almost everyone needs on the track.

[iPhone vs Android]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

they are not good for the track because they wear out rotors quickly and there are not a lot of good track pads available.

not to mention replacing ceramic brake rotors and pads is extremely expensive.

the standard setup with good fluid and a track pad will be all almost everyone needs on the track.

So if what you are saying is true, CCBs are waste of money?

[Tonymiabmw]

Originally Posted by iPhone vs Android

So if what you are saying is true, CCBs are waste of money?

They feel great had them on my old Porsche but for 8k you can get some sick ADV1 wheels

[aus]

Originally Posted by iPhone vs Android

So if what you are saying is true, CCBs are waste of money?

YES!!

Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw

They feel great had them on my old Porsche but for 8k you can get some sick ADV1 wheels

Is this a joke? You must not have seen these threads... or just care about bling if you have seen them.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=596608&page=2

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717258

.

[Real Deal]

For 7k I ll be using my bikes breaks instead :-) no way I will pony up for something that is an over kill.