Why do reviewers take issue with the M3/M4 CS MSRP?

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by silverstar335

Get a base model M3 ($66.5k) and then add (1) a complete set of Dinan upgrades (intake, heat exchanger, rear toe links, sway bars and mono balls), (2) your favorite tune, (3) a front lip, rear spoiler, rear diffuser and side skirts (4) a very nice set of forged lightweight wheels. The total will be around $85k and you will have an F80 that will outperform the CS in every driving category.

Why not start with a 340i and upgrade from there. Boom M3 is now over-priced...I feel like I've been transported to clubsi.com circa 2000 with arguments like that

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

CS already is discounted in my neck of the woods. Many many will go unsold at sticker. I predict well over 10k off very very soon and certainly by winter!!

People are getting 10k regular M3s so whats the difference? Does this make the M3 a undesireable car as well?

Can't we all agree that
1)sports cars are overpriced
2)M3 especially is overpriced
3) CS is overpriced

Its not just 3). And nickel and diming mods to create a CS...c'mon

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

Why not start with a 340i and upgrade from there. Boom M3 is now over-priced...I feel like I've been transported to clubsi.com circa 2000 with arguments like that

Last I checked the 340 had different body panels, exhaust,etc - the point is, a lot more separates the 340 and M3 than separates the M3 and M3CS

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

People are getting 10k regular M3s so whats the difference? Does this make the M3 a undesireable car as well?

M3CS should be a halo car - should be something special. Unfortunately, BMW just didn't do that much to it over the regular M3 other than tack on $20K and some ugly spoilers.

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

Can't we all agree that
1)sports cars are overpriced
2)M3 especially is overpriced
3) CS is overpriced

I didn't find my M2 overpriced - thought it was a great deal on a great car. My M3 is overpriced cause the dealer decided to order it with a bunch of silly options like the sunshade. The M3CS? That's just simply overpriced. So your list might be
1. CS is way overpriced for what you get
2. M3 is expensive, but not as crazy as a Porsche
3. M2 OG is an awesome car at an awesome price

[minn19]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Last I checked the 340 had different body panels, exhaust,etc - the point is, a lot more separates the 340 and M3 than separates the M3 and M3CS


M3CS should be a halo car - should be something special. Unfortunately, BMW just didn't do that much to it over the regular M3 other than tack on $20K and some ugly spoilers.



I didn't find my M2 overpriced - thought it was a great deal on a great car. My M3 is overpriced cause the dealer decided to order it with a bunch of silly options like the sunshade. The M3CS? That's just simply overpriced. So your list might be
1. CS is way overpriced for what you get
2. M3 is expensive, but not as crazy as a Porsche
3. M2 OG is an awesome car at an awesome price

I get what both sides are saying here. I get his point about the 340. You could get a base auto or stick 340 and throw coilovers, tune etc and I believe you would be pretty close to a M3/4 performance numbers on paper.

I also find a lot of M2s over priced or priced too close to the M3/4 for what you get. The M2 Comp now that is a different story.

Looks are subjective/opinion, but I love how the CS looks, especially the hood. Is there a good comparison between the regular ZCP about their performance differences? Otherwise I tend to agree in the US anyway it is too much more for too little improvement. But, I could be wrong as I haven't driven one nor seen a good comparison between the two.

In the end all of this shit is overpriced and I sometimes wish I had a different hobby.

[RoundelM3]

Bigger issue is why anyone would care what "reviewers" think...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

Bigger issue is why anyone would care what "reviewers" think...

There are a few that I trust to help guide my car buying decisions or at least to check a certain car out. But, the decision is mine in the end after thinking about it from several different angles.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

Bigger issue is why anyone would care what "reviewers" think...

I would guess many of us have some reviewers that we trust when evaluating a vehicle purchase.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by minn19

Looks are subjective/opinion, but I love how the CS looks, especially the hood. Is there a good comparison between the regular ZCP about their performance differences? Otherwise I tend to agree in the US anyway it is too much more for too little improvement. But, I could be wrong as I haven't driven one nor seen a good comparison between the two.

Oh I think the CS hood is the worst part - way to blocky/chunky.... fucks with the lines of the car but that's just me.

I totally agree on the (lack of any) direct comparison to the ZCP car. Most of what's out there are comparisons to the base car and so the jury is still out. The reviews I have ready about comparing it to the ZCP car is that the CS "fixes" the tail-happy nature of the ZCP. It's hard for me to take that seriously as the ZCP is glued to the road - I am finding virtually zero rear traction issues short of going WOT coming out of a sharp turn - which I highly doubt you can do in the torque CS car.

SURELY the CS is killer and drives awesome. But, take away the tires (which essentially make a direct comparison impossible), does it drive 30k msrp better than a ZCP?

HOWEVER!! With the CS prices apparently falling like rocks and approaching the msrp of a ZCP car AND considering that you can't get a new ZCP car anymore (save for the few left on dealer lots) then perhaps it (the CS) is by default the car to get.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

The ZCP is so sharp, balanced and precise, and, can be had with a manual, and, is much, much cheaper, that it's hard to imagine the CS being better enough to justify the substantial price hike.

The CS pretty much gets you a good torque bump, revised DSC/Diff software, Sport Cup tires (probably not good for general street use) and less weight(?), relative to a ZCP car. Other than the exclusivity and the extra torque, I don't see much else making a practical difference and so it's hard for me to see why someone would pay so much more for the CS over a, say, a stripper ZCP car.

Now, without having driven the CS, the car probably is fantastic to flog and could be the next coming of christ. But on the surface, the ZCP package seems to be the sweet spot/best value.

This is why I think the price is an issue. Because the next model down is ULTRA good and way, way cheaper.

I had the zcp before and consider it an outstanding vehicle. That said, a similarly equipped m3Zcp (DCT, metallic color, drivers pack, exec pack, rear spoiler) vs an M3cs is about $15K less expensive (without carbon bonnet and front spoiler). Whether it is worth it or not can argued both ways and may depend at least in part on how deep your pockets are and how much you value having a "limited production" car.

In my case, I decided to go for it and I'm very excited I did. Most reviewers think this is "the M3/M4" to own and they are mostly critical about the price. IMO I think the CS will be a car that, on paper, may not seem to justify its price, but it might be a complete revelation once you drive it.

Two more weeks to go for my M4CS to arrive ...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Oh I think the CS hood is the worst part - way to blocky/chunky.... fucks with the lines of the car but that's just me.

I totally agree on the (lack of any) direct comparison to the ZCP car. Most of what's out there are comparisons to the base car and so the jury is still out.

SURELY the CS is killer and drives awesome. But, take away the tires (which essentially make a direct comparison impossible), does it drive 30k msrp better than a ZCP?

Like I said, looks are definitely subjective! I don't like it enough to pay 5k for paint and install etc.

It's not impossible, my car came with the same 763m/Cup 2 set. Somebody will do it, but it would be nice if it was done sooner rather than later.

I'd challenge CanAutM3 to a track challenge between our cars when he gets his, but he has just a slight advantage in track time/experience over me.

[Darth One]

this is all BMW's fault. when you take the exact same car and create four distinct levels (civic --> comp --> CS --> GTS), you can't possibly expect to see very clear, step-function performance level differences across all four.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

I had the zcp before and consider it an outstanding vehicle. That said, a similarly equipped m3Zcp (DCT, metallic color, drivers pack, exec pack, rear spoiler) vs an M3cs is about $15K less expensive (without carbon bonnet and front spoiler). Whether it is worth it or not can argued both ways and may depend at least in part on how deep your pockets are and how much you value having a "limited production" car.

In my case, I decided to go for it and I'm very excited I did. Most reviewers think this is "the M3/M4" to own and they are mostly critical about the price. IMO I think the CS will be a car that, on paper, may not seem to justify its price, but it might be a complete revelation once you drive it.

Two more weeks to go for my M4CS to arrive ...

Good post, agree with you in general. I'm very excited for you.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by Darth One

this is all BMW's fault. when you take the exact same car and create four distinct levels (civic --> comp --> CS --> GTS), you can't possibly expect to see very clear, step-function performance level differences across all four.

I absolutely agree with you, especially because BMW has not been forthright with its customers on what variants will be available always as "standard variants" of their M lineup.

Porsche has done this much better IMO, offering 23 variants of the 911 and still being able to market each one separately for the most part (ie. 911S vs 911GTS). You pretty much always know what variants will come out once a new 911 is introduced (with only some surprises, 911T for example)

[CanAutM3]

I can see why folks in the US find the CS overpriced, and not so much us Canadians. To better understand I did a quick comparison of MSRPs for the USA and Canada.

By speccing an M4 Competition to my liking (how I would order it) in both configurators and then speccing an M4CS as I ordered it is quite revealing:

US ........ M4 CP: $83,140 - M4CS: $110,945 (+33%)
Canada.. M4 CP: $103,097 - M4CS: $119,990 (+16%)

So my M4CS would have whopping 33% premium over the CP in US. While still hefty, it is only a 16% premium in Canada, which makes the pill easier to swallow. Further, in Canada, as opposed to US, the CS can be leased and many dealers are offering discounts on them.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

But, take away the tires (which essentially make a direct comparison impossible)

In the US, the CS comes with the same tires as the CP.

[M3GymNut]

Because in the end it's just not worth the money.

[mpizutti]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

I had the zcp before and consider it an outstanding vehicle. That said, a similarly equipped m3Zcp (DCT, metallic color, drivers pack, exec pack, rear spoiler) vs an M3cs is about $15K less expensive (without carbon bonnet and front spoiler). Whether it is worth it or not can argued both ways and may depend at least in part on how deep your pockets are and how much you value having a "limited production" car.

In my case, I decided to go for it and I'm very excited I did. Most reviewers think this is "the M3/M4" to own and they are mostly critical about the price. IMO I think the CS will be a car that, on paper, may not seem to justify its price, but it might be a complete revelation once you drive it.

Two more weeks to go for my M4CS to arrive ...

You will love it..the M3cs drives better then the m3zcp..the problem I see is most people can not drive them back to back..I like all the Mcars but there is a special feeling with the CS..and as far as I am just going to take a base M3 and add $2000 and I have a CS well you are wrong.

[mpizutti]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Oh I think the CS hood is the worst part - way to blocky/chunky.... fucks with the lines of the car but that's just me.

I totally agree on the (lack of any) direct comparison to the ZCP car. Most of what's out there are comparisons to the base car and so the jury is still out. The reviews I have ready about comparing it to the ZCP car is that the CS "fixes" the tail-happy nature of the ZCP. It's hard for me to take that seriously as the ZCP is glued to the road - I am finding virtually zero rear traction issues short of going WOT coming out of a sharp turn - which I highly doubt you can do in the torque CS car.

SURELY the CS is killer and drives awesome. But, take away the tires (which essentially make a direct comparison impossible), does it drive 30k msrp better than a ZCP?

HOWEVER!! With the CS prices apparently falling like rocks and approaching the msrp of a ZCP car AND considering that you can't get a new ZCP car anymore (save for the few left on dealer lots) then perhaps it (the CS) is by default the car to get.

The hood looks great

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by mpizutti

..and as far as I am just going to take a base M3 and add $2000 and I have a CS well you are wrong.

This reminds me of the argument that has been made in 335i and F30/F32 forums that for less than the price differential between the base models of those 3/4 series that you can throw on a bunch of aftermarket third-party parts and have an M3/M4. Those of us who have had the base models of those series and now have the M version of those series know that this is a ridiculous statement. Which is why I don't understand how someone who already has an M model can claim that they can make it into a GTS or a CS by using aftermarket third-party parts.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by mpizutti

You will love it..the M3cs drives better then the m3zcp..the problem I see is most people can not drive them back to back..I like all the Mcars but there is a special feeling with the CS..and as far as I am just going to take a base M3 and add $2000 and I have a CS well you are wrong.

That "special feeling" that you mention is exactly what I'm looking for, which I never found on the my previous ZCP M4. The ZCP was amazing (and much better that the regular M4 that I tested a lot), but it never did what my E46 M3 did for me. Yes, the ZCP was incredibly fast, had good grip, sounded good, but never felt completely integrated, never felt like everything in the car was working in complete harmony providing absolute confidence and feedback; something that was so present on my E46 M3 which made it so fun drive and confidence inspiring. I have not driven the CS but I am hoping it will provide me with that feeling again.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

That "special feeling" that you mention is exactly what I'm looking for, which I never found on the my previous ZCP M4. The ZCP was amazing (and much better that the regular M4 that I tested a lot), but it never did what my E46 M3 did for me. Yes, the ZCP was incredibly fast, had good grip, sounded good, but never felt completely integrated, never felt like everything in the car was working in complete harmony providing absolute confidence and feedback; something that was so present on my E46 M3 which made it so fun drive and confidence inspiring. I have not driven the CS but I am hoping it will provide me with that feeling again.

don't take my word for it, but i don't think it will. not even the GTS feels as special as the E46 M3 in the way you describe. i was chasing the same feels and ended up just buying an E46 M3.

not saying the CS is not special - i just don't think it will be in that particular way. unless BMW gave it some special sauce that no other F8x model has ever gotten...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by minn19

Like I said, looks are definitely subjective! I don't like it enough to pay 5k for paint and install etc.

It's not impossible, my car came with the same 763m/Cup 2 set. Somebody will do it, but it would be nice if it was done sooner rather than later.

I'd challenge CanAutM3 to a track challenge between our cars when he gets his, but he has just a slight advantage in track time/experience over me.

You guys should include someone with '15 civic m3 and the typical mods of full coilovers, 275 front / 305 wide nt01 tires, track pads

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

You guys should include someone with '15 civic m3 and the typical mods of full coilovers, 275 front / 305 wide nt01 tires, track pads

I'll be able to do a straight up lap time comparison of a '15 civic M4 with springs, camber plates, track pads and 275/305 NT01 and the M4CS with camber plates, track pads and 275/305 NT01 very shortly .