08-07-2021, 03:07 PM | #2 |
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Where would you put the sub belts into? Cut the stock seat?
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08-08-2021, 06:10 PM | #4 |
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Once the car has a racing seat, how do you attach the lap belts?
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08-09-2021, 10:32 AM | #5 | |
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The OEM Euro solution is brackets welded to the chassis, but that is significantly more complex than the Brey-Kruse solution because the US cars didn't have the brackets welded in the factory. It takes some fiddling to get right depending on the race seat you pick (I had OMP WRC-R), but if you have an extra set of manual sliders, you could probably change the seats out in <30 mins. The nice part about the WRC-R is the lap belt holes are large enough that you can still use the factory 3-point belt on the road. Once on track, you can take the passenger belt and buckle it in to the stock seat belt receptacle to prevent the seat belt warning chime from going off the entire session (or buy a seat belt stub from Amazon). |
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08-09-2021, 10:38 AM | #6 |
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I have utilized the Brey Krause solution and been given pushback by tech with NASA. Consider that if you are running any of the factory seat adaptations I believe are being suggested in here.
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08-09-2021, 10:56 AM | #7 | |
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For the sub belts, it's clear, they attach to the BK sub bar For the shoulder belts, it's also clear as they can wrap around the GTS roll bar What I don't understand is how to attack the lap belts. In the BK setup, one side (towards the center tunnel) attaches to the seat mount, but the other one attaches to the BK harness bar. That's the one I'm worried about |
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08-09-2021, 11:21 AM | #8 | |
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Curious why NASA would have issues with the BK setup. It's not as rigid as hard-mounting the seat to the chassis, but sliders are used in factory race cars |
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08-09-2021, 11:31 AM | #9 | |
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I heard there's an OEM GTS solution for the lap belts but seems to require welding? |
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08-09-2021, 11:40 AM | #10 | |
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The outer lap belt bracket attaches to the seat rail via a special bolt on accessory that BK includes in the R-9288 package. You can sorta see it in the photo below. Both are eyelets that you clip the lap belt harnesses into. Other than the sub belts that have to be wrapped, the other 4 belts are easy clip-ins. Yes, the OEM Euro GTS brackets require you to cut the carpet and weld in brackets. |
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08-09-2021, 11:49 AM | #11 | |
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I reverted the car for street use, and went true racecar instead. Lasted ~15 months trying to do hybrid duty with the GTS. If I was going to keep tracking it, I'd have gone with the EDM seats + BK mounting hardware. I didn't want to cut the carpet + weld-in the tabs, and I really liked the lap/sub belts sliding with the seat. |
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08-09-2021, 11:55 AM | #12 |
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Perfect, thanks guys, I appreciate the help!
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08-09-2021, 12:52 PM | #13 | |
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08-09-2021, 05:52 PM | #14 |
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Anyone have pictures of the factory installed euro harness brackets?
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08-10-2021, 09:28 PM | #15 |
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Upgrading to seats better suited for the track is on my winter to do list. Thanks to all that have provided some tips here.
I still would like to have sliding adjustment, any tips there? |
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08-11-2021, 08:39 AM | #16 | |
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Then, all you need to do when you have a track day is remove the 4 seat rail bolts, unplug the stock wiring harness, swap in the entire race seat assembly, and plug in the tensioner wiring harness (so you don't get a seatbelt chime all track day). You can also skip the seatbelt tensioner step and code it out. Just depends on what is easier for you. |
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08-31-2021, 09:15 PM | #17 |
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Factory belts
I went with welding in the OE belt mounts. Mis-installed belts are worthless, I would rather use the factory 3 point belts than some hack solution.
It was not cheap. The whole interior (carpeting) had to be removed, brackets welded in place, repaint the floor to prevent rust, reinstalled interior and installed belts. Look at the videos of mis-installed belts to see the dangers. This is not a subject for the uninformed well intentioned shade tree mechanic. |
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08-31-2021, 10:49 PM | #18 | |
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I would caution against thinking the OEM solution is always superior. If you are above 5'9", the OEM Euro buckets and chassis mounting points are not safe due to the incorrect installation angles they create in the harnesses relative to the driver. As you undoubtedly are aware, the OEM mounting points are not in any way adjustable. In any case, 5/6 point belts in this car maybe create false sense of security. They will hold you in more securely and may help to an extent in a frontal collision. However, this is a road car that is not even remotely close to complying with any serious race series regulations with regard to crash protection, be it cage, seat mounting, etc. If you get in an accident at high speeds, you will likely be seriously injured or killed, half-cage and 6-points or not. Last edited by 4play; 08-31-2021 at 10:54 PM.. |
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09-01-2021, 04:59 AM | #19 | |
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09-01-2021, 08:43 AM | #20 | |
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There are suppliers to the IAM that do adhere to industry certifications/standards that provide tested solutions. That is the first thing to look for in safety items. Belts/restraints are very technical subjects that require exact installation. I have seen many 5/6 point belts installed with the shoulder belts mounted to rear seat belt attachments and the sub belt over the front of the seat. Finally safety is an evolving topic. For example lap belts for 5/6 point harnesses have gone from 3" to 2" (Schroth), helmet restraints have evolved into Hybrid devices and finally the BMW NA driving schools are conducted without helmets - Their reasoning is the car is fully secured with retractable belts, airbags and crush zones and not engineered for a driver wearing a 3# helmet. I would like more information about the following: "I would caution against thinking the OEM solution is always superior. If you are above 5'9", the OEM Euro buckets and chassis mounting points are not safe due to the incorrect installation angles they create in the harnesses relative to the driver. As you undoubtedly are aware, the OEM mounting points are not in any way adjustable." Given that the M4 GTS was offered in Germany with the belt/seat combination, I would like more information. Thanks for the comment. Just as I thought. SILENCE. Don't waste your time, money. Six point belts are the evolution of 5 point belts. Safety systems are tested to perform. Like I said before, Just stay with the factory 3 point before you engineer your own safety system. Last edited by rcompound; 11-28-2023 at 09:11 PM.. Reason: Added content |
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03-19-2023, 04:38 PM | #21 |
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Sorry if this is resurrecting an old thread - has anyone seen or used this for harness mounts?
https://burkhart-engineering.com/en/...t-engineering/ It appears like it coukd be a better solution than the Bret Kraus? |
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03-20-2023, 07:08 PM | #22 | |
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