CSs won't hold value/be desirable over time because of DCT - do you agree?

[_robert_]

Originally Posted by trendy26

I purchased my '17 M4 Manual 6spd brand new for $62K ($77K MSRP), it was leased. Sold it after 1 year for $57K. My payoff was $55K at the time, so pocketed a couple grand from it.

My M4CS I purchased for $77K ($107K MSRP). KBB currently does not show a value on the CS's due to limited market info on them. Edmunds shows trade-in on my car of around $76K (5K miles on the odometer). While having my car serviced the other week, my local BMW dealer offered me $74K if I wanted to sell the car right then and there. Not too bad for having the car for 18 months.....

Also had my buddy who manages a dealership run the auction prices for the CS's, and they've been mid $70K's

Yeah damn prices really went up...just recalculated my car value...



I guess no one is losing money.

[trendy26]

Originally Posted by _robert_

Yeah damn prices really went up...just recalculated my car value...



I guess no one is losing money.

The Used Car Market is a little inflated now because of the slowdown of New Car production that happened as a result of Covid.

I'm actually kicking myself for selling my Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro right before this Covid crap started. Probably could've gotten $3-$4K more for it since Used Values went up.

In my experience, the M3/M4 value has held fairly well if you purchased at a good price. I made money on all of my ///M's after owning each one for no longer than 2 years. Very rare to find a car that gives you that kind of flexibility.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have bought all of my M3/4 to serve the dual duty of daily driver and track toy. I do 20+ track days a year. The M3/4 may not be the best track car, but it surely is the bloody best compromise. And judging by the amount of M3/4 I see at track days, I am not the only one to believe so. But I could not care less about launching from a dig and M3/4 have never been about drag racing. Acceleration from a roll is what matters on track. And 300-500 extra lb has a significant impact on track performance.

To each of their own. I purchased an F80 for tri-purpose. Daily driver, track, and drag strip. I also have plans to bring it half-mile roll racing once I get my custom e85 tune dialed in. Surprisingly, a significant amount of F80 owners bring their cars to half-mile racing to a local event last weekend and they can hold their own against supercars.

Reread my comment. Where did I say 500lb is negligible on the track?

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

When folks say “track” ready, most mean for a road course, as this what the M3/4 has been about since inception with the E30. The M3 has never been about drag racing.

I guess we can agree to disagree

I purchased an F80 because it is a jack of all trade. It is a luxurious sport sedan that does well on the track and drag strip. I'm not sure what is the constant hate about people dragging their cars from track enthusiasts. Different strokes for different people. People say the GTR is never about drag racing. Guess what? There are 6 seconds GTR.

[Mr. Hankey]

Others have said it, but the CS is the top of the line for the F8x generation without any tuning straight from the factory. New model is losing the DCT, bigger, heavier. All these cars will depreciate until perhaps all new cars are only offered as hybrid or electric only, but the CS version will depreciate less than the others. Next version of the CS will be the G8x variant and while they will likely fix the front and quarter panel lines, no way will they add a DCT back or lose the 300+# it needs to lose, so this one is still unique. Following version of the M3/4 will be hybrids...they have to be barring any major changes in fuel economy which won't happen in Europe. I think this one is the "peak" for the non-hybrid M3/M4s....apologize if I have written off the G8x but I have...don't think that one is salvageable...

[786]

Originally Posted by Fahrt

Others have said it, but the CS is the top of the line for the F8x generation without any tuning straight from the factory.

My GTS begs to differ.

Originally Posted by Fahrt

Following version of the M3/4 will be hybrids...they have to be barring any major changes in fuel economy which won't happen in Europe. I think this one is the "peak" for the non-hybrid M3/M4s....apologize if I have written off the G8x but I have...don't think that one is salvageable...

Agree with you there, with the new C63 being a four cylinder hybrid the writing is on the wall. BMW is always touting efficiency so won’t be far behind. UK just said no new ICE cars in 10 years, a lot of change is coming. G8X simply too heavy with similar power to F8X, dynamically won’t move the game on. Same power as my car with ~500lbs more to lug around, plus ugly? Zero interest.

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by 786

My GTS begs to differ.

True, your GTS is correct and I apologize for the transgression! Clearly GTS is top of the line but I consider that a track car that definitely requires some setup from factory to dial in. Also very limited compared to the other variants and wasn't available to the "masses"....thats in a class of its own for sure and has the best ability to appreciate over time...but for whatever reason in my mind it occupies its own container separate from the other F8x's...

[786]

Originally Posted by Fahrt

True, your GTS is correct and I apologize for the transgression! Clearly GTS is top of the line but I consider that a track car that definitely requires some setup from factory to dial in. Also very limited compared to the other variants and wasn't available to the "masses"....thats in a class of its own for sure and has the best ability to appreciate over time...but for whatever reason in my mind it occupies its own container separate from the other F8x's...

Haha, no apology necessary. Agree with all your points, and I also think of it separately from the other F8X's. It really feels a world apart from the other M4 variants. Such a special car, imo nothing can touch it for the price they're at now. I'll never sell mine.

[kyrix1st]

M4 CS is closer in philosophy to the original CSL which focused on lightweight construction but with practicality.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by trendy26

I purchased my '17 M4 Manual 6spd brand new for $62K ($77K MSRP), it was leased. Sold it after 1 year for $57K. My payoff was $55K at the time, so pocketed a couple grand from it.

My M4CS I purchased for $77K ($107K MSRP). KBB currently does not show a value on the CS's due to limited market info on them. Edmunds shows trade-in on my car of around $76K (5K miles on the odometer). While having my car serviced the other week, my local BMW dealer offered me $74K if I wanted to sell the car right then and there. Not too bad for having the car for 18 months.....

Also had my buddy who manages a dealership run the auction prices for the CS's, and they've been mid $70K's

Yep spot on, similar situation. I "barely" paid anything over my 1.5 years from that perspective as well.

As you mentioned, the later CS adopters already had the 1st year depreciation absorbed by the heavy discounts, from that perspective it hardly depreciated at all, making the M4cs a seriously good "buy."

[m3elmo]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

M4 CS is closer in philosophy to the original CSL which focused on lightweight construction but with practicality.

I assume you mean the e46 csl? the carbon intake and tuning alone in that engine make it a huge delta to the stock s54. no comparison.

the s55 cs vs. s55 comp isn't that different.

then for weight. e46 comp pack is about 3600lb vs 3100lb for the csl. the interior of the csl has special seats carbon door cards carbon roof, carbon center console. special rear seats etc. I think of bmw felt the f80 cs was that special they would have called it an m3 csl.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by m3elmo

I assume you mean the e46 csl? the carbon intake and tuning alone in that engine make it a huge delta to the stock s54. no comparison.

the s55 cs vs. s55 comp isn't that different.

then for weight. e46 comp pack is about 3600lb vs 3100lb for the csl. the interior of the csl has special seats carbon door cards carbon roof, carbon center console. special rear seats etc. I think of bmw felt the f80 cs was that special they would have called it an m3 csl.

The car is definitely not a csl, but it is special. I think of it as a significantly improved competition package. The steering and suspension tuning are much better and, in my opinion, it looks much better. In fact, if the comp pack had been released with CS wheels and suspension tuning, I really think it would have influenced how the F80 is perceived long-term. Today, perspective on the F80 legacy is heavily influenced by reviews of early cars.

[m3elmo]

Originally Posted by scoale

The car is definitely not a csl, but it is special. I think of it as a significantly improved competition package. The steering and suspension tuning are much better and, in my opinion, it looks much better. In fact, if the comp pack had been released with CS wheels and suspension tuning, I really think it would have influenced how the F80 is perceived long-term. Today, perspective on the F80 legacy is heavily influenced by reviews of early cars.

I hear you

thing is you can code the suspension and steering. looks are subjective but things like the wheels and lip and others are easily swapped. so in the end it's not that special besides being labeled a CS. early reviews true but in future looking back many won't care as much

[scoale]

Originally Posted by m3elmo

I hear you

thing is you can code the suspension and steering. looks are subjective but things like the wheels and lip and others are easily swapped. so in the end it's not that special besides being labeled a CS. early reviews true but in future looking back many won't care as much

Agree, if starting with a comp pack, you can tune CS steering and suspension. You can also swap to CS 763 wheels and tire sizes (19f/20b). At that point, you pretty much have a CS sans the xtra CF bits (hood, etc). Definitely makes sense to go this direction if you want best of CS w/ manual transmission. Just wish comp package had come like this from the start.

[IB M]

DCT is fun, unique and no longer available

Nine years later a DCT LRP is more $ than 6MT ZCP

CS is a similar formula - different enough and limited enough to always be desired

SMB CS with a friends 6MT LRP today

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by m3elmo

I assume you mean the e46 csl? the carbon intake and tuning alone in that engine make it a huge delta to the stock s54. no comparison.

the s55 cs vs. s55 comp isn't that different.

then for weight. e46 comp pack is about 3600lb vs 3100lb for the csl. the interior of the csl has special seats carbon door cards carbon roof, carbon center console. special rear seats etc. I think of bmw felt the f80 cs was that special they would have called it an m3 csl.

I disagree. Both engine and transmission had software tweaks and it's got additional carbon fiber GTS bonnet, light door cards and OLED tail lights.

It's supposed to be 15kg lighter than M4 comp which is already a relatively light car for one with E39 M5 dimensions. E46 back then was a heavy car nearing 1500kg curb so it wasn't as challenging as M4 to cut weight that had to satisfy much more stringent safety standards while retaining 40,000 NM/deg torsional rigidity.

Bottom line: F8x base was too good of a car. BMW likely hated that customers got more than its worth and cut the cost big this time.

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I disagree. Both engine and transmission had software tweaks and it's got additional carbon fiber GTS bonnet, light door cards and OLED tail lights.

It's supposed to be 15kg lighter than M4 comp which is already a relatively light car for one with E39 M5 dimensions. E46 back then was a heavy car nearing 1500kg curb so it wasn't as challenging as M4 to cut weight that had to satisfy much more stringent safety standards while retaining 40,000 NM/deg torsional rigidity.

Bottom line: F8x base was too good of a car. BMW likely hated that customers got more than its worth and cut the cost big this time.

Bingo.

In some technical BMW brief somewhere, which may as well be hieroglyphics to YouTube lemmings who ooh and ahh over cf parts, the following things under hood/skin have been improved/incorporated BY FACTORY M ENGINEERS for the M4 CS. Someone check me on this please.

Return of the magnesium oil sump (I recall BMW ditched these very early on in the F8X lifecycle for reasons unknown)

For certain CF driveshaft (later production runs featured steel shafts)

Increased lateral g oil supply (up to 1.4-6g justified by the stickier Sport Cup 2s)

CS specific DCT, engine, diff and suspension mapping

Interestingly, the CS actually sits a tiny bit taller than the regular ZCP equivalent.

People who mind the details will most def find value in the CS model or an M in general. It's the motorsport engineering that shines through when the car is put through its paces. There is a reason why at the world's most demanding track that is the N'ring you see Ms above all else. The F8X is arguably the most durable and reliable M car of all time if not for the foreseeable pure ICE future which is curtains post G gen. Check the Apex rental car company videos. F8X is their workhorse of choice and the M4 CS is undeniably the apex of its gen.

Else just buy an AMG, Alfa Quad, Audi RS for mall crawler and cute hwy flex duties.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

i mean how much money we really taking about here a couple thousand

[Humdizzle]

there was a GTS that sold for 70k not too long ago on BaT and had pretty much no miles.
https://bringatrailer.com/search/m4+gts/

these cars MSRP'd for 130. Majority of F80 buyers want a street car. And if you want a track car there are much better options for the money than the GTS.

In a couple years i think we'll see everything level out. CS = GTS > ZCP 6MT > Base 6MT > ZCP DCT > Base DCT. The CS cars will always command a premium due to the body kit / wheels / low production, especially the M4 due to the tail lights. But the difference between a zcp manual and CS will be like 5-7k. all things being equal.

[786]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

there was a GTS that sold for 70k not too long ago on BaT and had pretty much no miles.
https://bringatrailer.com/search/m4+gts/

these cars MSRP'd for 130. Majority of F80 buyers want a street car. And if you want a track car there are much better options for the money than the GTS.

In a couple years i think we'll see everything level out. CS = GTS > ZCP 6MT > Base 6MT > ZCP DCT > Base DCT. The CS cars will always command a premium due to the body kit / wheels / low production, especially the M4 due to the tail lights. But the difference between a zcp manual and CS will be like 5-7k. all things being equal.

Why do you assume a GTS is only meant for the track? I use mine exclusively as a fun street car and love it for that purpose. Even if you wanted one solely for the track what “much better options” are there for the money ($80k)?

Also, lol at “CS = GTS”, not even close. A CS wasn’t even in consideration when I was shopping. Those will depreciate a lot more in the years to come imo. Not special enough and they made too many.

[Ricostrong60]

Originally Posted by 786

Why do you assume a GTS is only meant for the track? I use mine exclusively as a fun street car and love it for that purpose. Even if you wanted one solely for the track what “much better options” are there for the money ($80k)?

Also, lol at “CS = GTS”, not even close. A CS wasn’t even in consideration when I was shopping. Those will depreciate a lot more in the years to come imo. Not special enough and they made too many.

They made too many? They didn’t even get to make the full 3k they were aiming for. I dont see these cars depreciating a lot more than current value especially if miles are kept low.

[786]

How many did they end up making? If it’s more than a couple thousand it’s not really collectible (if you’re into that sort of thing). Cars have to be really limited to be considered collectibles, and even then it’s not assured. So I wouldn’t assume any sort of collectibility will help buoy values for the CS.

My GTS is the perfect example, the first owner paid $135k for it and they only made 800 worldwide, it’s now in the $80s used (with low miles). By your logic it should’ve retained a lot more value. Why would you assume the CS would depreciate less? A car that’s less special, with much higher production numbers?

[Ricostrong60]

I dont know the final number (it was posted somewhere on the forum) but as you may have noticed with gts prices they dipped to the 70k range now good luck finding one for that price. I believe they are starting to appreciate now. As for the CS no more than 2500 were made worldwide and as with every collectible car the value dips then goes up. The gts is 4 years old now. Given the same time frame for the cs i can see this car being up there in price.