KW Dynamic Dampening Control (DDC) Review/Thoughts

[dpgfunk]

Originally Posted by Abckkt

+1 on the KW DDC had mine installed last weekend.

Initial impressions? and more pics!

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Pong

Arcades / @Abckkt did u install KW DDC ECU WLAN Module as well? and if yes can you set up 5 different profiles which are different from the pre-set Comfort, Sport and Sport + as advertised?

thx in advance

If you're mentioning about the App that allows you to change things up a slight bit, no I didn't do that. I'm not sure if the BMW F8x version allows it as from what I know (don't quote me) that is for the VW cars.

I can ask AutoTalent but I honestly do not know. I'm perfectly happy w/ what I have honestly so.

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by Arcades

If you're mentioning about the App that allows you to change things up a slight bit, no I didn't do that. I'm not sure if the BMW F8x version allows it as from what I know (don't quote me) that is for the VW cars.

I can ask AutoTalent but I honestly do not know. I'm perfectly happy w/ what I have honestly so.

We did not add the module, because it's an optional & additional cost. Plus no point in that module since you can adjust with the suspension button provided with the EDC

[Abckkt]

Originally Posted by Pong

Arcades / @Abckkt did u install KW DDC ECU WLAN Module as well? and if yes can you set up 5 different profiles which are different from the pre-set Comfort, Sport and Sport + as advertised?

thx in advance

No I didn't , the factory edc does the job

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by Justin.AutoTalent

We did not add the module, because it's an optional & additional cost. Plus no point in that module since you can adjust with the suspension button provided with the EDC

Oh so you can use the wifi unit to adjust dampening irrespective of KW's 3 edc/oe presets?

I didn't think you could do that in addition to the factory integrated edc. Do you need to run individual wiring from all 4 corners to a central KW box or does it piggyback the oe integration install

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Oh so you can use an app to adjust dampening irrespective of KW's 3 edc/oe presets?

I didn't think you could do that in addition to the factory integrated edc. Do you need to run individual wiring from all 4 corners to a central KW box or does it piggyback the oe integration install

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but hopefully my response answers your question.

The DDC on the F8X platform is a direct plug and play kit to the OEM EDC. No coding, harnesses, splicing required.

This allows you to retain the 3 modes provided by BMW with the EDC/Suspension button - Comfort, Sport, and Sports Plus.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by domino_z

Oh so you can use the wifi unit to adjust dampening irrespective of KW's 3 edc/oe presets?

I didn't think you could do that in addition to the factory integrated edc. Do you need to run individual wiring from all 4 corners to a central KW box or does it piggyback the oe integration install

What the other guy asked, Pong, was regarding DDC and the ability to change up some of the dampening through KW's App for the iPhone or Android.

I remember reading up about this prior and that is mainly for the VW cars (aka Golf GTI/R). It isn't available for us on BMW because we already have it through BMW's own OEM application. Hence the reason why some of us want this.

So to answer Pong, no, that is not available for us BMW owners. That is for VW cars that wants KW DDC.

[domino_z]

ok gotchya, that's what i thought, it was one feature or the other - didn't think we could have them both

do we know what shocks KW is using for the DDC kit? is it the CS?

i posted in another thread the spring rates, but can't seem to find it - iirc it was stock zcp front and rear (excl. rear helper spring)

[Bon F80]

thx Arcades , Abckkt and Justin.AutoTalent, was asking cuz i wanted to know if ddc with the wlan module can give an individual more custom-adjustability by having 5 custom settings. ur responses r clear, thx a lot

[Icecreamfoo]

Originally Posted by Pong

thx Arcades , Abckkt and Justin.AutoTalent, was asking cuz i wanted to know if ddc with the wlan module can give an individual more custom-adjustability by having 5 custom settings. ur responses r clear, thx a lot

EDIT: sorry for the thread jack, Arcades. Great build, awesome car!

Pong, I saw your WLAN question a couple days ago but forgot to reply - I am on KW DDC and opted extra for the WLAN module. Yes through KW's phone app you can wifi connect to the DDC, create up to 5 personal settings in addition to the basic Comfort/Sport/Sport+ settings, and switch on the fly. In fact, the app allows modification to the default Sport and Sport+ settings as well if one chooses to.

BUT,

My DDC/W-LAN is installed on an E90. It is possible with the F8x platform KW decided to no longer support this feature since the DDC kit is now designed to directly integrate into the current OEM EDC. If you really want to pursue guys at AutoTalent can probably find out for u

[Bon F80]

Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo

EDIT: sorry for the thread jack, Arcades. Great build, awesome car!

Pong, I saw your WLAN question a couple days ago but forgot to reply - I am on KW DDC and opted extra for the WLAN module. Yes through KW's phone app you can wifi connect to the DDC, create up to 5 personal settings in addition to the basic Comfort/Sport/Sport+ settings, and switch on the fly. In fact, the app allows modification to the default Sport and Sport+ settings as well if one chooses to.

BUT,

My DDC/W-LAN is installed on an E90. It is possible with the F8x platform KW decided to no longer support this feature since the DDC kit is now designed to directly integrate into the current OEM EDC. If you really want to pursue guys at AutoTalent can probably find out for u

thx a lot Icecreamfoo! if the WLAN / app works the same in F8x i would definitely consider. let's c if anyone can confirm

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Pong

thx a lot Icecreamfoo! if the WLAN / app works the same in F8x i would definitely consider. let's c if anyone can confirm

It doesn't work.

KW's own websites says so if you put in your car. Like I said, the DDC is plugged into your car's own EDC system. It's not possible for you to put this in your car and request your car have 2 more extra settings. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Brickologic]

Camber plates don't make any sense if you ride your car daily (tyre wear, ...) and not on the track. Our DDC P&P coilover kit is a kit to drive every day with a smile. Thats also the reason we use progressive springs.

If you want to go on a racetrack opt for KW Clubsport 3-way with camber plates.

There isn't any suspension in the universe what can do everything, but the marketing dudes always telling this kind of fairytales.

Originally Posted by Circuit Hunter

Great review, thank you. I was contemplating them as well but decided against them as I heard camber plates would not work with them

[Brickologic]

Originally Posted by Arcades

It doesn't work.

KW's own websites says so if you put in your car. Like I said, the DDC is plugged into your car's own EDC system. It's not possible for you to put this in your car and request your car have 2 more extra settings. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

DDC ECU and DDC Plug&Play are different suspensions.

DDC ECU is for cars without any adaptive shocks and hardware.

DDC Plug&Play is for cars with adaptive hardware.

More info about our DDC in general you'll find here http://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/tec...-coilover-kit/

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by CS_KW automotive Germany

DDC ECU and DDC Plug&Play are different suspensions.

DDC ECU is for cars without any adaptive shocks and hardware.

DDC Plug&Play is for cars with adaptive hardware.

More info about our DDC in general you'll find here http://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/tec...-coilover-kit/

Ah I see.

Thank you. It does make sense the ECU would be different w/ Adaptive Dampening. Thanks clarification.

[Bon F80]

thx for the clarification again CS_KW automotive Germany and Arcades

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by CS_KW automotive Germany

Camber plates don't make any sense if you ride your car daily (tyre wear, ...) and not on the track. Our DDC P&P coilover kit is a kit to drive every day with a smile. Thats also the reason we use progressive springs.

To be 1000% clear for everyone. You are NOT saying that camber plates designed to work with stock dampers and springs WON'T work on the ddc kw's, but rather that you didn't design the kit with that use case in mind. Correct?

[Brickologic]

We didn't have in mind designing a street application coilover kit like KW V3 or DDC with progressive springs for the use of unibal topmounts because it makes no sense at all.

The V3 and DDC is also developed for the use of street high performance tyres (also different valves, piston rods, piston rebound package, ...). A KW Clubsport kit is developed for the semi slicks to give you the maximum performance with your street legal car on a race track. And for the maximum performance on a track or road you need topmounts. But topmounts have a price.

With topmounts you hear more the tyre noise and the vibrations from the road in the chassis, but you will have an massive improvement in the handling and corner speed. There is always a little death to die if you modifying your car...


Here you will hear why we don't put unibal topmounts on KW V3 and KW DDC P&P but on our Clubsport kits.

Oh, and here is the GTS on the Nordschleife: http://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/the...all-selection/

And here - sorry its a ddc review in the focus rs - you see the DDC plug and play in a canyon ride

http://blog-int.kwautomotive.net/roa...-on-bad-roads/

Originally Posted by ashmostro

To be 1000% clear for everyone. You are NOT saying that camber plates designed to work with stock dampers and springs WON'T work on the ddc kw's, but rather that you didn't design the kit with that use case in mind. Correct?

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by CS_KW automotive Germany

We didn't have in mind designing a street application coilover kit like KW V3 or DDC with progressive springs for the use of unibal topmounts because it makes no sense at all.

I disagree with your logic (not your decision as that's for you to own).

Many folks, including I, have had a use case for OEM or OEM-type springs but with enough negative camber so as not to tear apart the outsides of our tires on even the occasional track day. The max negative camber we can get with OEM topmounts is just not sufficient for 20+ minute track sessions on our front strut application. You don't need a track-only setup for there to be a need for camber plates on this platform.

And before someone says it, yes, there are now adjustable lower arms on the market, but since those also use uniball pivots your argument would apply equally, and so still would be moot given the same use case would drive the purchase of those parts.

[SRC]

Great post, thanks for sharing this info. Just took delivery of a 2018 M3 ZCP and my first impressions of the suspension was and still is... OMFG this is stiff. I'm getting use to it however am considering my options moving forward. I think the spring rates might be stiffer than the chassis.

Would like to here more comments regarding the KW DDC with respect to stiffness and ride comfort compaired to ZCP. I get the bobble headed comments in your post however there are contradictory statements where you reference it is "stiff" and the mid corner lean is less which also suggest an increase in stiffness.

Thanks in advance...!

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by SRC

Great post, thanks for sharing this info. Just took delivery of a 2018 M3 ZCP and my first impressions of the suspension was and still is... OMFG this is stiff. I'm getting use to it however am considering my options moving forward. I think the spring rates might be stiffer than the chassis.

Would like to here more comments regarding the KW DDC with respect to stiffness and ride comfort compaired to ZCP. I get the bobble headed comments in your post however there are contradictory statements where you reference it is "stiff" and the mid corner lean is less which also suggest an increase in stiffness.

Thanks in advance...!

Uhh it isn't contradictory?

KW DDC is for BMW M3/M4 cars equipped with EDC. You switch between those three modes which changes how your car feels.

If you have passive suspension then you can't do DDC, you just do either Clubsport or V3. DDC is a full suspension setup, it does better than OEM in every regard especially when OEM suspension has bad rebound. Having something stiffer doesn't always mean it's uncomfortable if a setup rebound correctly. If a car is completely stiff, you will definitely know what it feels like.

Things like this is always hard to describe until you are in the car to feel it for yourself. Describing how a car feels when you drive is difficult thing to do.

Even with ZCP OEM, it's stiffer which makes the rebound better but you will still feel a bit of the floatiness feel on rebound when you drive on Comfort. Sport makes things stiff and you won't feel the float but you feel every thing on the road, which gets irritating at times if the road you drive through just sucks. DDC removes the floatiness feeling even in Comfort, Sport mode gets stiffer but it isn't uncomfortable.

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Uhh it isn't contradictory?

KW DDC is for BMW M3/M4 cars equipped with EDC. You switch between those three modes which changes how your car feels.

If you have passive suspension then you can't do DDC, you just do either Clubsport or V3. DDC is a full suspension setup, it does better than OEM in every regard especially when OEM suspension has bad rebound. Having something stiffer doesn't always mean it's uncomfortable if a setup rebound correctly. If a car is completely stiff, you will definitely know what it feels like.

Things like this is always hard to describe until you are in the car to feel it for yourself. Describing how a car feels when you drive is difficult thing to do.

Even with ZCP OEM, it's stiffer which makes the rebound better but you will still feel a bit of the floatiness feel on rebound when you drive on Comfort. Sport makes things stiff and you won't feel the float but you feel every thing on the road, which gets irritating at times if the road you drive through just sucks. DDC removes the floatiness feeling even in Comfort, Sport mode gets stiffer but it isn't uncomfortable.

I agree with your last sentences. OEM ZCP has more travel. That’s the reason for the float feeling but it’s not bad really. Not bad on the track either, just have to wait an extra half second for the car to settle. The suspension is not stiffer per say, just more controlled rebound. The shocks soak up most bumps especially dips in the roads. I have them DDC kit. Sort of a one and done solution. The harshness really comes from the OEM 20”w&t combo.