New Crank Hub Solution to Market

hellrotm · 03-20-2019, 09:57 AM

Is that 135 a N54 or N55?

M-Pilot · 03-20-2019, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

I still can't understand why anyone would go with this solution when you have other ones like Max PSI. The install time is the same and the initial price is only $600 more..

Not at all. I got quoted for $2800-$3000 for MaxPSI labor while VTT labor is in the range of $1000-$1350. This is based on quotes from several shops in both SoCal and NorCal.

M-Pilot · 03-20-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilvez

I think bit worrying part about VTT spline lock supposed failure is the fact that it spun during the burnout according to the comments. Of course sticky slicks put a lot of initial shock through the driveline when sidestepping the clutch for burnout, but the size of the shock is less dependent on the horsepower the engine makes. Actually, powerful engine should produce less shock to the driveline as it has power to spin the wheels but less powerful engine might stall in worst case scenario. Meaning that engine revs drop very quickly and any ancillaries attached to the snout of the crank will be decelerated with great force, hence putting a lot of strain on the crank hub connection.

Lets hope that VTT comes back with the comments once they have investigated the failure.

Here is permalink to the comment in Bootmod3 group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/boot...2%3A%22R%22%7D

I can confirm that the spline lock solution can spin. 2015 F82 FBO, E85 tuned with methanol injection at the charge pipes. Making approximately 600whp and spun the crank hub 2 months after installation.

Not bashing the manufacturer of this fix just a general announcement that it can still spin.

So you spun VTT spline lock? Do you have any pics of the hub after the spin? Just curious what the damage looks like. Also when did this happen?

Harpinc · 03-20-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

I still can't understand why anyone would go with this solution when you have other ones like Max PSI. The install time is the same and the initial price is only $600 more..

Not at all. I got quoted for $2800-$3000 for MaxPSI labor while VTT labor is in tbe range of $1000-$1350. This based on quotes from several shops in both SoCal and NorCal.

So they're doing 15-20 hours of labor for you for $1000? The only difference is drilling for the pinned version isn't it?

M-Pilot · 03-20-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

I still can't understand why anyone would go with this solution when you have other ones like Max PSI. The install time is the same and the initial price is only $600 more..

Not at all. I got quoted for $2800-$3000 for MaxPSI labor while VTT labor is in tbe range of $1000-$1350. This based on quotes from several shops in both SoCal and NorCal.

So they're doing 15-20 hours of labor for you for $1000? The only difference is drilling for the pinned version isn't it?

It's 10 hours labor. Multiple shops gave me the same number not just VTT.

Harpinc · 03-20-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

I still can't understand why anyone would go with this solution when you have other ones like Max PSI. The install time is the same and the initial price is only $600 more..

Not at all. I got quoted for $2800-$3000 for MaxPSI labor while VTT labor is in tbe range of $1000-$1350. This based on quotes from several shops in both SoCal and NorCal.

So they're doing 15-20 hours of labor for you for $1000? The only difference is drilling for the pinned version isn't it?

It's 10 hours labor. Multiple shops gave me the same number not just VTT.

Gotcha... I got a deal on my MaxPSI install and wouldn't consider anything else for track work..
I wanted to do it once, not twice.

M-Pilot · 03-20-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harpinc

I still can't understand why anyone would go with this solution when you have other ones like Max PSI. The install time is the same and the initial price is only $600 more..

Not at all. I got quoted for $2800-$3000 for MaxPSI labor while VTT labor is in tbe range of $1000-$1350. This based on quotes from several shops in both SoCal and NorCal.

So they're doing 15-20 hours of labor for you for $1000? The only difference is drilling for the pinned version isn't it?

It's 10 hours labor. Multiple shops gave me the same number not just VTT.

Gotcha... I got a deal on my MaxPSI install and wouldn't consider anything else for track work..
I wanted to do it once, not twice.

I got the VTT kit but now I'm second guessing my decision honestly. I don't even think you have a second chance if the VTT kit slips. Not sure what to do... Definitely not planning to spend anything near $4k but I might just leave it stock with just the bolt capture.

johnnyredgtr · 03-20-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

I got the VTT kit but now I'm second guessing my decision honestly. I don't even think you have a second chance if the VTT kit slips. Not sure what to do... Definitely not planning to spend anything near $4k but I might just leave it stock with just the bolt capture.

Wao, i just bought VTT crank hub kit and i'm with you cntzl, still thinking about if i install it or not.

gman_newyork · 03-20-2019, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilvez

I think bit worrying part about VTT spline lock supposed failure is the fact that it spun during the burnout according to the comments. Of course sticky slicks put a lot of initial shock through the driveline when sidestepping the clutch for burnout, but the size of the shock is less dependent on the horsepower the engine makes. Actually, powerful engine should produce less shock to the driveline as it has power to spin the wheels but less powerful engine might stall in worst case scenario. Meaning that engine revs drop very quickly and any ancillaries attached to the snout of the crank will be decelerated with great force, hence putting a lot of strain on the crank hub connection.

Lets hope that VTT comes back with the comments once they have investigated the failure.

Here is permalink to the comment in Bootmod3 group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/boot...2%3A%22R%22%7D

I can confirm that the spline lock solution can spin. 2015 F82 FBO, E85 tuned with methanol injection at the charge pipes. Making approximately 600whp and spun the crank hub 2 months after installation.

Not bashing the manufacturer of this fix just a general announcement that it can still spin.

So you spun VTT spline lock? Do you have any pics of the hub after the spin? Just curious what the damage looks like. Also when did this happen?

No pics yet as it is still in the car Initially the car went out of timing, it was re-timed, driven for a week and all seemed fine. He stepped into it, then it went out of timing again. Won't know specifics or have pictures until it is pulled out of the car. Maybe it wasn't torqued properly but to happen twice seems off especially since he is a master tech and works for BMW. Now he's waiting on his keyed hub replacement to arrive which should be here this week.

This is not my car but a guy I run half mile events with and is local to me. Was purchased during Black Friday and installed in January.

DieGrüneHölle · 03-20-2019, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domino_z

Not a good outcome, but perfect environment for testing these parts

Interesting, N54 spun crank hub. Haven't seen too many of those on the forums, although it has happened before.

Mmvic · 03-20-2019, 05:21 PM

this information came just in time. I have an appointment for next week to get my spline lock installed.... think I'll be purchasing a keyed solution so if anybody wants to buy my vvt kit, pm me

///BMW Junkie · 03-20-2019, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilvez

I think bit worrying part about VTT spline lock supposed failure is the fact that it spun during the burnout according to the comments. Of course sticky slicks put a lot of initial shock through the driveline when sidestepping the clutch for burnout, but the size of the shock is less dependent on the horsepower the engine makes. Actually, powerful engine should produce less shock to the driveline as it has power to spin the wheels but less powerful engine might stall in worst case scenario. Meaning that engine revs drop very quickly and any ancillaries attached to the snout of the crank will be decelerated with great force, hence putting a lot of strain on the crank hub connection.

Lets hope that VTT comes back with the comments once they have investigated the failure.

Here is permalink to the comment in Bootmod3 group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/boot...2%3A%22R%22%7D

I can confirm that the spline lock solution can spin. 2015 F82 FBO, E85 tuned with methanol injection at the charge pipes. Making approximately 600whp and spun the crank hub 2 months after installation.

Not bashing the manufacturer of this fix just a general announcement that it can still spin.

So you spun VTT spline lock? Do you have any pics of the hub after the spin? Just curious what the damage looks like. Also when did this happen?

No pics yet as it is still in the car Initially the car went out of timing, it was re-timed, driven for a week and all seemed fine. He stepped into it, then it went out of timing again. Won't know specifics or have pictures until it is pulled out of the car. Maybe it wasn't torqued properly but to happen twice seems off especially since he is a master tech and works for BMW. Now he's waiting on his keyed hub replacement to arrive which should be here this week.

This is not my car but a guy I run half mile events with and is local to me. Was purchased during Black Friday and installed in January.

Did it spin with VTT Spine lock hub only or with VTT bolt capture as well?

domino_z · 03-20-2019, 06:49 PM

Had both parts apparently

gman_newyork · 03-21-2019, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///FASTDAD

Did it spin with VTT Spine lock hub only or with VTT bolt capture as well?

He had spline lock only, no bolt capture. Attached are screenshots of our coversation so you can read it from the horses mouth. Items "blued out" are personal and not relevant to the discussion. Hopefully this helps and he has indicated he will share pictures with me when he tears into it so I will follow up when he sends pictures which sounds like it will be next weekend.

Not that this matters but he is a BMW master tech and currently works for Germain BMW in Nples, FL.

Screenshots:

gman_newyork · 03-21-2019, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///FASTDAD

Did it spin with VTT Spine lock hub only or with VTT bolt capture as well?

Had Spline lock ONLY

tom @ eas · 03-21-2019, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Had Spline lock ONLY

Why go through all the trouble of installing the SplineLock hub and not install the Crank Bolt Capture at the same time?

coldsteelrain · 03-21-2019, 12:23 PM

Why sell just one product on its own?
Who wants to buy a partial fix?
If the solution is both products then sell it as such and don't claim results with one fix but then say well it's better with the bolt capture as well.
It's like selling a TV and saying it works but in order to make it functional you have to buy the remote separately
Makes no sense to me

blockdoc · 03-21-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldsteelrain

Why sell just one product on its own?
Who wants to buy a partial fix?
If the solution is both products then sell it as such and don't claim results with one fix but then say well it's better with the bolt capture as well.
It's like selling a TV and saying it works but in order to make it functional you have to buy the remote separately
Makes no sense to me

With all the recent threads about a partial solution....apparently lots of folks are interested...that's prolly why they sell it.

I don't get why one would do it half assed either.....

coldsteelrain · 03-21-2019, 12:35 PM

The only reason I decided not to do this fix as I did have the entire kit was because every shop I asked said they could do it (20+ hour labor) but would not guarantee that it would work.
That would leave me with no assurance form the installer if something did go wrong and zero assurance from VTT as they would just blame it on improper install.
So to spare myself a big headache I am getting a keyed fix by the actual shop that makes it, so there is no confusion on what went wrong
For the rest of you who live near VTT or EAS I am sure it's going to work out fine as they have experience with it and can guarantee the work.
I live way to far from any shop willing to stand by this product.

gman_newyork · 03-21-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Had Spline lock ONLY

Why go through all the trouble of installing the SplineLock hub and not install the Crank Bolt Capture at the same time?

couldn't tell you as it's not my car. I think he was trying to save a buck which ended up biting him in the butt.

johnnyredgtr · 03-21-2019, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

couldn't tell you as it's not my car. I think he was trying to save a buck which ended up biting him in the butt.

Very sad that it happend to your friend, worse is, with an aftermarket Crank Hub...

tom @ eas · 03-21-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldsteelrain

Why sell just one product on its own?
Who wants to buy a partial fix?
If the solution is both products then sell it as such and don't claim results with one fix but then say well it's better with the bolt capture as well.
It's like selling a TV and saying it works but in order to make it functional you have to buy the remote separately
Makes no sense to me

From another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Guys, as has been stated many times... the CBC and the Spline Lock together are a complete solution that address the multiple causes of slipping the hub.

While having one solution is better than nothing, the complete and proper fix is to use both a spline lock and a CBC.

The Ghassan car did not use a CBC, and also used a damper we have found to be associated with very high vibrations (we ran one before on our shop N54... took it off as high rev vibes were enormous).

The reported other crank hub slip also did not have a CBC. With the crank bolt loose, you're going to have hub slip.

Again.... a complete solution is the best path forward. Spline Lock and a CBC together.

A few guys asked "why sell them separately?" Not everyone wants to do the install, and a CBC by itself will stop the bolt from vibrating loose. That "something" is better than nothing and the cost is minimal. Again though.... really need them both to fully resolve the issue, which should be clear.

Chris

03-20-2019, 09:57 AM	#199
hellrotm Banned 4143 Rep 6,926 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ...Location...Location iTrader: (0)	Is that 135 a N54 or N55?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-20-2019, 05:21 PM	#209
Mmvic Private First Class 61 Rep 150 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Palm city fl iTrader: (0)	this information came just in time. I have an appointment for next week to get my spline lock installed.... think I'll be purchasing a keyed solution so if anybody wants to buy my vvt kit, pm me
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-20-2019, 06:49 PM	#211
domino_z Lieutenant Colonel 1240 Rep 1,972 Posts Drives: F-Pace SVR Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Had both parts apparently
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-21-2019, 12:23 PM	#215
coldsteelrain driver 816 Rep 777 Posts Drives: G80 xdrive Join Date: May 2018 Location: NJ iTrader: (4)	Why sell just one product on its own? Who wants to buy a partial fix? If the solution is both products then sell it as such and don't claim results with one fix but then say well it's better with the bolt capture as well. It's like selling a TV and saying it works but in order to make it functional you have to buy the remote separately Makes no sense to me
	Appreciate 6 hz_diesel192.00 johnnyredgtr120.50 gman_newyork239.50 M-Pilot4859.00 ra2289305.50 MisterF80M31047.00 Quote

03-21-2019, 12:35 PM	#217
coldsteelrain driver 816 Rep 777 Posts Drives: G80 xdrive Join Date: May 2018 Location: NJ iTrader: (4)	The only reason I decided not to do this fix as I did have the entire kit was because every shop I asked said they could do it (20+ hour labor) but would not guarantee that it would work. That would leave me with no assurance form the installer if something did go wrong and zero assurance from VTT as they would just blame it on improper install. So to spare myself a big headache I am getting a keyed fix by the actual shop that makes it, so there is no confusion on what went wrong For the rest of you who live near VTT or EAS I am sure it's going to work out fine as they have experience with it and can guarantee the work. I live way to far from any shop willing to stand by this product.
	Appreciate 3 hz_diesel192.00 gman_newyork239.50 Lerxst M4142.00 Quote