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      03-19-2019, 02:23 AM   #1
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Well guys she finally spun...

Update** Car has been fixed. Made a new thread here. Thanks everyone.

Already posted this on the bm3 fb page.

*Long vent post warning*

So it has finally happened to me.... the dreaded crank hub failure... hopefully it's not too bad. Thank you to Justin Shih for helping out a dying man. Honestly was more worried about what my gf was gonna say rather than the actual problem. Luckily she was understanding and didn't tear me a new one..

Anyway to answer the usual questions.... M4 is a MY2016 purchased new. 6MT 24,700 miles. Tuned with bms stage 1 at 1k, then switched to bm3 stage 2 December 2016 at around 8k. We took it a little over 140mph, and car was driving fine. Maybe about 20 mins later driving normal speeds about 50mph cruising, got the drivetrain malfunction light. Drove it straight to my buddy's house 2 mins away and parked it. Drives fine just no boost. Starting the car took a couple seconds to start as well.

Recently got a custom e85 tune, and i already knew what could happen, was just hoping it wouldn't. Anyway my choice is to either take it to the dealer, where i know they would take a month just to tell me my warranty is voided hahaha. So I'll most likely be taking it to Justin at Auto Talent and get everything fixed with the Vargas VVT spline lock and hub ca[IMG]undefined[/IMG]pture and call it a day.

I'll be taking a day or two to figure out what to do. But most likely just drop it off at AutoTalent before i go on vacation to NYC.

Edit* this is the log about 20 mins prior to the SCH. If anyone knows how to read it and can shed some light on what they see, i would greatly appreciate, thank you.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c905b90c090c66c2bac8323
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Last edited by climax_e92; 04-10-2019 at 11:18 PM..
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      03-19-2019, 02:24 AM   #2
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      03-19-2019, 05:31 AM   #3
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Bummer.. hopefully just a bit out and you haven't tipped the valves.

Hope it pans out ok for you
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      03-19-2019, 05:53 AM   #4
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Makes we wonder if replacing the harmonic balancer with a heavier one will not mitigate these issues for tuned S55 engines.
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      03-19-2019, 06:39 AM   #5
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Bummer hearing this news. I hope you're able to get back up and running without too much out of pocket expense. I recall in the past there was an assumption the sch only occured in DCT cars and not 6MT. Has that notion been dispelled in recent times?
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      03-19-2019, 07:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Bummer hearing this news. I hope you're able to get back up and running without too much out of pocket expense. I recall in the past there was an assumption the sch only occured in DCT cars and not 6MT. Has that notion been dispelled in recent times?
That theory was debunked in the sticky also stock vs tuned:
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1560274
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      03-19-2019, 08:18 AM   #7
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Did you notice anything different at all? or the light just decided to randomly come on. I get you pushed it to 140 but I'm having a hard time grasping if that is it.
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      03-19-2019, 09:55 AM   #8
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How much hp tq with custom e85 tune?
No issues with up to stg 2 so another argument for power level correlation.
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      03-19-2019, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hz_diesel View Post
Did you notice anything different at all? or the light just decided to randomly come on. I get you pushed it to 140 but I'm having a hard time grasping if that is it.
My friend was driving cruising at 50mph likr 20 mins after we hit 140. Just normal driving. And he was already baby shifting at that point. then the light came on. i pulled over to read codes and that's what popped up. Car drove fine to my friend's house. just no boost and long crank.
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      03-19-2019, 10:53 AM   #10
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I understood that in almost all cases, if not all, the spinning of the crank hub was completely mitigated with the installation of a crank bolt capture who leads me to think that it might actually be related to a shift in rotational vibration of the crankshaft. A crank bolt capture not only locks the crank bolt but it also adds weight to the pulley.

If BMW would acknowledge this 'problem' they would put engineers with very good knowledge in physics and metallurgy on this to investigate if the spinning of the crank hub is related to the natural frequencies and an unsuitable harmonic damper or maybe even an unsuitable crankshaft counterweight. The truth is that for normal usage, meaning no tunes, they have tested this car and engine and found no problems.

It would be naive to think that one could tune the engine extensively with relatively taken simple mods without impacting the physics of the engine. Yes BMW should have used bolts to tighten the crank bolt and they should have used a single piece crank hub, but they deemed this to be unnecessary.

Those that tune should take into account not only the cost of their regular mods but also the cost for replacing the crank hub and installing a crank bolt capture and then the problem is solved.
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      03-19-2019, 12:11 PM   #11
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Is The crank hub the same between M3/M4 stock and M4 GTS?

Because when we are talking that cars tuned have more probabilities to have the problem, the m4 gts should have the same problem.

Is true that there are less m4 gts....
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      03-19-2019, 01:14 PM   #12
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It is more than just the crank hub which might have an impact.

The GTS has obviously water injection which makes it possible to increase the turbo boost pressure and to work with earlier ignition points. It also has a positive effect on the valves and pistons.

A very important change to the S55 engine used in the GTS is a reinforced bedplate and I believe also friction plate which is important for reducing crankshaft resonance. BMW did this for a reason!

But AFAIK they started using it also for later production models of the F8x (> 2016). My F82 has a production date of 10/2015 and has the old bedplate design. Besides that there are no engine differences I am aware of.

The engine control (MEVD17.2.G) is the same. ECU was retuned for GTS.
DCT is also the same.
Rear diff is the same and same gear ratio.

I will check later today on my laptop BMW ETK to see if there are differences in part numbers for the engine.

Update
I only see for my F82 for example that the crankshaft changed:
old PN 11214809217
new PN 11217846606
Marked with TeileClearing. I don't know why dealers would submit a PuMA case for the crankshaft. Anyone has any idea?

Last edited by G4BR13L; 03-19-2019 at 02:16 PM..
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      03-19-2019, 02:58 PM   #13
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custom full E85 map? how much boost? 24PSI?

the fact that you were able to start it and limp it home is a good sign. good luck.
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      03-19-2019, 03:17 PM   #14
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Sorry to hear climaxe92.....i hope you get your car running soon again...
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      03-19-2019, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4BR13L View Post
I understood that in almost all cases, if not all, the spinning of the crank hub was completely mitigated with the installation of a crank bolt capture who leads me to think that it might actually be related to a shift in rotational vibration of the crankshaft. A crank bolt capture not only locks the crank bolt but it also adds weight to the pulley.

If BMW would acknowledge this 'problem' they would put engineers with very good knowledge in physics and metallurgy on this to investigate if the spinning of the crank hub is related to the natural frequencies and an unsuitable harmonic damper or maybe even an unsuitable crankshaft counterweight. The truth is that for normal usage, meaning no tunes, they have tested this car and engine and found no problems.

It would be naive to think that one could tune the engine extensively with relatively taken simple mods without impacting the physics of the engine. Yes BMW should have used bolts to tighten the crank bolt and they should have used a single piece crank hub, but they deemed this to be unnecessary.

Those that tune should take into account not only the cost of their regular mods but also the cost for replacing the crank hub and installing a crank bolt capture and then the problem is solved.
I though even stock/not tuned s55s also suffered from the SCH.
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      03-19-2019, 03:49 PM   #16
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Imho those cases are very unclear. The clearly reported cases are tuned cars. This is an indication of how small the probability is of this happening at all to be honest. If there are 5 people who had it, they tell about it on these forums but we don’t read about how 100,000 other people have no issue nor will these people create an account to tell they have no issue.
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      03-19-2019, 04:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4BR13L View Post
Imho those cases are very unclear. The clearly reported cases are tuned cars. This is an indication of how small the probability is of this happening at all to be honest. If there are 5 people who had it, they tell about it on these forums but we don’t read about how 100,000 other people have no issue nor will these people create an account to tell they have no issue.
Yeah.. tech at Valencia BMW said he has seen a few SCH come in stock. I'm sure not everyone is on the forum like we are.
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      03-19-2019, 04:22 PM   #18
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Sure when they take in the car the ECU is flashed back to stock for the warranty. It takes an idiot to bring a tuned car to BMW to claim warranty. I am talking about the ones that just reprogram the ECU and drive like they stole the car. It is striking how few actually modded cars and even build for the race track have these issues.

Last edited by G4BR13L; 03-20-2019 at 04:17 AM.. Reason: typo's
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      03-19-2019, 06:11 PM   #19
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Im sorry to hear that OP
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      03-19-2019, 06:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climax_e92 View Post
Already posted this on thr bm3 fb page.

*Long vent post warning*

So it has finally happened to me.... the dreaded crank hub failure... hopefully it's not too bad. Thank you to Justin Shih for helping out a dying man. Honestly was more worried about what my gf was gonna say rather than the actual problem. Luckily she was understanding and didn't tear me a new one..

Anyway to answer the usual questions.... M4 is a MY2016 purchased new. 6MT 24,700 miles. Tuned with bms stage 1 at 1k, then switched to bm3 stage 2 December 2016 at around 8k. We took it a little over 140mph, and car was driving fine. Maybe about 20 mins later driving normal speeds about 50mph cruising, got the drivetrain malfunction light. Drove it straight to my buddy's house 2 mins away and parked it. Drives fine just no boost. Starting the car took a couple seconds to start as well.

Recently got a custom e85 tune, and i already knew what could happen, was just hoping it wouldn't. Anyway my choice is to either take it to the dealer, where i know they would take a month just to tell me my warranty is voided hahaha. So I'll most likely be taking it to Justin at Auto Talent and get everything fixed with the Vargas VVT spline lock and hub ca[IMG]undefined[/IMG]pture and call it a day.

I'll be taking a day or two to figure out what to do. But most likely just drop it off at AutoTalent before i go on vacation to NYC.
And i was about to pull a trigger on BM3...
sorry bro.
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      03-19-2019, 06:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4BR13L View Post
Sure when they take in the car the ECU is flashed back is stock for the warranty. It takes an idiot to bring a tuned car to BMW to claim warranty. I am talking about the ones that just reprogram the ECU and drive like they stole the car. It is striking how few actually modded cars and even build for the race track have these issues.
Yeah what's strange is that I've always babied this car. Never red lined and i hardly ever drive hard. i just like the power. Worst thing is this happened with my friend driving.
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      03-19-2019, 06:21 PM   #22
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