Why do reviewers take issue with the M3/M4 CS MSRP?

[Throttleblip]

Why is the CS considered to be so expensive by all reviewers? And why are most comparisons with a 911GTS when, in terms of pricing, it should be compared to a standard 911?

The CS without ceramics and Executive pack is 100K MSRP in the US. A standard, non-S 911 (991.2) with similar options: PDK, leather interior, 20 inch rims, metallic color, 14-way power seats, and Sports Chrono has an MSRP of $106.5K.

A GTS (991.2) is obviously faster, but also way more expensive. A similarly spec GTS with PDK, leather interior, metallic color, and 14-way seats is 132K.

I know some dealers have been trying to charge premiums over MSRP for the CS, but it is the reviewers that use MSRP as an indication of price who often say the CS is too expensive.

IMO I would much rather have a CS than a standard 991.2 Porsche 911. Don't get me wrong, I love Pcars but, I believe reviewers should compare cars that are similar in value/price proposition.

[doug_999]

Because the delta in price does not correspond with the delta in options/performance compared to a regular M3.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Because the delta in price does not correspond with the delta in options/performance compared to a regular M3.

Drive them back to back and you'll realize the differences are more than the sum of the parts. You can't build this car by just clicking on additional option boxes, it truly feels bespoke. Its obviously not a bargain but honestly a highly optioned M3 is a worse buy than a CS.

[PayamFSU]

You can do all the hardware and software changes to ZCP for about 2,000.00

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Because the delta in price does not correspond with the delta in options/performance compared to a regular M3.

I understand what you are saying, but the CS is different and it's value proposition can be argued both ways (in favor or against)

I believe the BMW M is doing what Porsche did a while back. It will have many different variants of the same car. That is why the M5 competition was launched almost immediately after the standard M5.

Customers will continue to get upset that BMW comes out with different variants of what the car "should of been from the beginning" but eventually customers will understand that each car is a separate variant (similar to the 911, 911T, 911S, 911GTS, etc). For example, the Porsche GTS is about 20K more than the S, and few people complain about that or few people say "that is what the S should have been".... they don't say that because they see the GTS as a separate car even though it's still a 911.

[allinon72]

The price of the CS is reflected upon the limited quantity and the intangible benefits of the car (i.e. not the spec sheet). It is intended for M enthusiasts. Most people who are buying a CS wouldn't buy the 911 regardless.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Also no manual

[minn19]

Originally Posted by allinon72

The price of the CS is reflected upon the limited quantity and the intangible benefits of the car (i.e. not the spec sheet). It is intended for M enthusiasts. Most people who are buying a CS wouldn't buy the 911 regardless.

Why not? The M3 CS I get your post, but not necessarily in regards to the M4 vs a 911 at that price point.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

Also no manual

^This, why doesn’t any higher end special edition M3/4 have an option for a manual? Come on BMW take more of my money if you include a manual in some of these special editions.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

You can do all the hardware and software changes to ZCP for about 2,000.00

OK, please show me how one can get an engine tune, EDC-e-diff-DSC coding, a CFRP front lip, a CFRP rear diffuser, a CFRP gurney flap, a CFRP hood, lightweight forged wheels and a revised interior good for a combined ~77lb of weight reduction for $2000 .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

Why is the CS considered to be so expensive by all reviewers? And why are most comparisons with a 911GTS when, in terms of pricing, it should be compared to a standard 911?

The CS without ceramics and Executive pack is 100K MSRP in the US. A standard, non-S 911 (991.2) with similar options: PDK, leather interior, 20 inch rims, metallic color, 14-way power seats, and Sports Chrono has an MSRP of $106.5K.

A GTS (991.2) is obviously faster, but also way more expensive. A similarly spec GTS with PDK, leather interior, metallic color, and 14-way seats is 132K.

I know some dealers have been trying to charge premiums over MSRP for the CS, but it is the reviewers that use MSRP as an indication of price who often say the CS is too expensive.

IMO I would much rather have a CS than a standard 991.2 Porsche 911. Don't get me wrong, I love Pcars but, I believe reviewers should compare cars that are similar in value/price proposition.

Probably because the M3/4 CS are indeed quite pricey, particularly in the US.

It probably stems from the fact that the US is getting a rather good deal on the competition package and not so much so on the CS, making it quite a jump from CP to CS. Further, the CS is not for everyone, hence why they are produced in relatively low volumes. But regardless, I agree that the CS are not compared to right market segment. Also in Canada, a 911GTS is in complete different price league compared to the M4CS, so they are definitely not direct competitors.

In the end, I don't really care for what the reviewers have to say and I am looking forward to my M4CS .

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

Why is the CS considered to be so expensive by all reviewers? And why are most comparisons with a 911GTS when, in terms of pricing, it should be compared to a standard 911?

The CS without ceramics and Executive pack is 100K MSRP in the US. A standard, non-S 911 (991.2) with similar options: PDK, leather interior, 20 inch rims, metallic color, 14-way power seats, and Sports Chrono has an MSRP of $106.5K.

A GTS (991.2) is obviously faster, but also way more expensive. A similarly spec GTS with PDK, leather interior, metallic color, and 14-way seats is 132K.

I know some dealers have been trying to charge premiums over MSRP for the CS, but it is the reviewers that use MSRP as an indication of price who often say the CS is too expensive.

IMO I would much rather have a CS than a standard 991.2 Porsche 911. Don't get me wrong, I love Pcars but, I believe reviewers should compare cars that are similar in value/price proposition.

I guess if you can afford a CS at 100ish k US then you should be able to afford a 911 GTS at 132k. I get it is 30k more and that is real money, but when you are in this range of cars it isn’t or definitely shouldn’t be that big of a deal so they are in the same conversation.

I completely get the M3 CS as there is no Porsche equivalent. I get it the M4 CS is less and the M4 CS still offers more back seat space plus more dual ability than a 911 GTS, but it is a lot closer than the M3CS vs 911 obviously.

Any way, not trying to be that guy, but if you are stretching to get a CS at 100-110, but can’t afford a 911 at 130, I don’t think you should be in the market for either car if that makes sense.

[PayamFSU]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OK, please show me how one can get an engine tune, EDC-e-diff-DSC coding, a CFRP front lip, a CFRP rear diffuser, a CFRP gurney flap, a CFRP hood, lightweight forged wheels and a revised interior good for a combined ~70lb of weight reduction for $2000 .

Go on a diet and coding from Alpine for all of that is 900. Also the minor hardware changes like sway bar and springs is cheap. The aesthetic changes don't make a huge difference was speaking in regards to performance. And I would much rather have my center console.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

Drive them back to back and you'll realize the differences are more than the sum of the parts. You can't build this car by just clicking on additional option boxes, it truly feels bespoke. Its obviously not a bargain but honestly a highly optioned M3 is a worse buy than a CS.

Said nobody I'm sorry, but they just didn't make enough changes in the car - for the better - that would come close to justifying the price. It is, as most people have noted, a waste of money.

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

....
Customers will continue to get upset that BMW comes out with different variants of what the car "should of been from the beginning"

Nobody has ever said this about the M3 CS - they have said it about the 2018 ZCP, but never the M3 CS.

Look - cool car and all - but they just didn't make it special and/or killer. The 911S will still lay waste to it (albeit with a much smaller cabin).

and with over 130 of the 628 M3s available on cars.com being M3CS' the market has spoken - this car is not worth the money in the eyes of most buyers.

[Maitre_Absolut]

Originally Posted by minn19

I guess if you can afford a CS at 100ish k US then you should be able to afford a 911 GTS at 132k.

Any way, not trying to be that guy, but if you are stretching to get a CS at 100-110, but can’t afford a 911 at 130, I don’t think you should be in the market for either car if that makes sense.

It doesn't make sense. If you can afford a 132k GTS then you can afford a 165k GT3. If you can afford a 165k GT3 then you can afford a 200k McLaren.

See it now? How about if you can afford an 85k M3 then you can afford a 100k CS?

Originally Posted by doug_999

Said nobody I'm sorry, but they just didn't make enough changes in the car - for the better - that would come close to justifying the price. It is, as most people have noted, a waste of money.

Nobody has ever said this about the M3 CS - they have said it about the 2018 ZCP, but never the M3 CS.

Look - cool car and all - but they just didn't make it special and/or killer. The 911S will still lay waste to it (albeit with a much smaller cabin).

and with over 130 of the 628 M3s available on cars.com being M3CS' the market has spoken - this car is not worth the money in the eyes of most buyers.

Wow alot of hate. Insecure much? I get it you just bought a ZCP and now its not the coolest kid on the block, get over it. I test drove a ZCP and would never consider it, sorry. To me that was overpriced. Read some reviews on the CS, they all rave about the car.

You are drawing large conclusions from those numbers. Cars.com includes sold cars (see all the GT3s listed?) and current deliveries are all CS, what are you expecting?

Dealers in Canada have started listing above asking. Regardless of whether they get that or not, these cars are not sitting.

Just appreciate that BMW is making these cars, and leave the bashing at home.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

It doesn't make sense. If you can afford a 132k GTS then you can afford a 165k GT3. If you can afford a 165k GT3 then you can afford a 200k McLaren.

See it now? How about if you can afford an 85k M3 then you can afford a 100k CS?

Your car analogy doesn’t make sense here. I don’t put the M3/4 CS or even the 911 GTS in the same type of company/type/mission as the GT3 or McLaren.

But, yes I agree with your money analogy with the cars you picked.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Said nobody I'm sorry, but they just didn't make enough changes in the car - for the better - that would come close to justifying the price. It is, as most people have noted, a waste of money.

Nobody has ever said this about the M3 CS - they have said it about the 2018 ZCP, but never the M3 CS.

Look - cool car and all - but they just didn't make it special and/or killer. The 911S will still lay waste to it (albeit with a much smaller cabin).

and with over 130 of the 628 M3s available on cars.com being M3CS' the market has spoken - this car is not worth the money in the eyes of most buyers.

Your quote: "Nobody has ever said this about the M3 CS - they have said it about the 2018 ZCP, but never the M3 CS"

Read the last paragraph of this review: https://www.google.com.sv/amp/s/www....w-m4-cs-gwguqf

Read the paragraph at the end of this review before "First Verdict": https://www.google.com.sv/amp/s/www....cs-review/amp/

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

Read the last paragraph of this review: https://www.google.com.sv/amp/s/www....w-m4-cs-gwguqf

Don't see the M3 CS mentioned in that one?

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

Wow alot of hate. Insecure much? I get it you just bought a ZCP and now its not the coolest kid on the block, get over it. I test drove a ZCP and would never consider it, sorry. To me that was overpriced. Read some reviews on the CS, they all rave about the car.

You are drawing large conclusions from those numbers. Cars.com includes sold cars (see all the GT3s listed?) and current deliveries are all CS, what are you expecting?

Dealers in Canada have started listing above asking. Regardless of whether they get that or not, these cars are not sitting.

Just appreciate that BMW is making these cars, and leave the bashing at home.

Insecure? Weird, never felt that way for posting factual comments - but hey, if that floats your boat!

And if those numbers include sold M3CS' then they include sold M3s.. so the percentage should be correct.

Look, I'm just pointing out facts - my dealer called me the other day and said "BMW is asking if we will take another M3CS - it is at the port unsold" - if this was such a great car, why is BMW asking dealers to take them off their hands?

and seriously, if the M3 ZCP is overpriced...what exactly is the M3CS?

I love when people are defending a car that nobody wants - wait... did you buy a M4 GTS?

[Kimeran]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

It doesn't make sense. If you can afford a 132k GTS then you can afford a 165k GT3. If you can afford a 165k GT3 then you can afford a 200k McLaren.

See it now? How about if you can afford an 85k M3 then you can afford a 100k CS?



Wow alot of hate. Insecure much? I get it you just bought a ZCP and now its not the coolest kid on the block, get over it. I test drove a ZCP and would never consider it, sorry. To me that was overpriced. Read some reviews on the CS, they all rave about the car.

You are drawing large conclusions from those numbers. Cars.com includes sold cars (see all the GT3s listed?) and current deliveries are all CS, what are you expecting?

Dealers in Canada have started listing above asking. Regardless of whether they get that or not, these cars are not sitting.

Just appreciate that BMW is making these cars, and leave the bashing at home.

I find it interesting that you get touched by him complaining about the CS, and you defend the CS by talking crap about the ZCP...

To some the CS is worth every cent, because it is more driver focused.
To some the CS is crap and not worth the money because it loses some nice features like the centre console and climate control (not sure if you can spec it with climate control or if it just comes with those cheap ass knobs).

Different strokes for different folks people!

Regarding the comparisons to the Porsche GTS, I can only assume that they are comparing the two based on the types of the cars that they are and the purposes that they serve, rather than the prices.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Kimeran

I find it interesting that you get touched by him complaining about the CS, and you defend the CS by talking crap about the ZCP...

To some the CS is worth every cent, because it is more driver focused.
To some the CS is crap and not worth the money because it loses some nice features like the centre console and climate control (not sure if you can spec it with climate control or if it just comes with those cheap ass knobs).

Different strokes for different folks people!

Regarding the comparisons to the Porsche GTS, I can only assume that they are comparing the two based on the types of the cars that they are and the purposes that they serve, rather than the prices.

Agreed, the CS are not for everyone, hence they will generate quite polarized opinions. Further, the premium they put on the CS over the CP in the USA is a bit ridiculous IMO. We are getting a much better deal on the CS in Canada, hence why quite a few of us Canadians are saying it is worth it. But I understand the push back from the US folks.

BTW, the CS do come with automatic climate control, albeit a single zone system as opposed to the standard dual zone system.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Go on a diet and coding from Alpine for all of that is 900. Also the minor hardware changes like sway bar and springs is cheap. The aesthetic changes don't make a huge difference was speaking in regards to performance. And I would much rather have my center console.

If I lose 75lb, there wouldn't be much of me left (I am not overweight)

Further, it is important to consider the entire package, not just the tune and code. Many folks also upgrade cosmetics on their cars. On the CS, some of the cosmetics are also actual performance enhancers, such as the lightweight wheels, lighter hood with increased cooling and functional aero front lip and gurney flap (standard M3/4 have net lift, CS has net downforce). As I said, the CS is not for everyone and it is quite pricey, but you sure cannot make a CS from a CP for 2000 bucks.

[DS_BMW]

I really think the CS looks stunning but why when you can get a used M4 GTS for cheaper?