UPDATE!!! German tuner LEIB Engineering cracked the F-series DME last week!!!

Boss330 · 08-07-2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Wow this comes from a well regarded tuner... Have loved what they've done on prior m3 projects and have extracted a lot of power from their tuned s65s

I might just be able to meet them at the Nurburgring later this month. They might bring a E92 Supercharged M3 with 650+hp...

WickedC5 · 08-08-2014, 01:34 PM

Wonder what this would mean for the F30 335? 380+whp with just a tune on 93 Oct ?

Keep us posted!

apexit · 08-08-2014, 09:34 PM

Having a car down for 2 weeks in beyond stupid. WTF are they doing that they need 2 weeks?

RSXDC5 · 08-09-2014, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apexit

Having a car down for 2 weeks in beyond stupid. WTF are they doing that they need 2 weeks?

Trying to "break" the ecu's encryption in some way?

Boss330 · 08-09-2014, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apexit

Having a car down for 2 weeks in beyond stupid. WTF are they doing that they need 2 weeks?

At the moment the process of cracking the DME takes 1-2 weeks and requires a lot of computing power they said. Working on a much quicker process but not sure if they are able to make that work yet...

They also encrypt their own work to make sure it isn't copied by other tuners...

I think we will perhaps/hopefully know more from owners that has been to LEIB Engineering in the near future.

apexit · 08-09-2014, 10:56 AM

I'm no programmer but maybe it's like the movies where they hook up a computer and it goes through all the possibly encryption codes until it gets the right one. Wonder if thats what they do. Didn't mean to sound like I was knocking them, progress is progress.

d_dot · 08-11-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apexit

I'm no programmer but maybe it's like the movies where they hook up a computer and it goes through all the possibly encryption codes until it gets the right one. Wonder if thats what they do. Didn't mean to sound like I was knocking them, progress is progress.

same thing i was thinking

e39>all · 08-11-2014, 12:52 PM

Hmmm, so they didn't actually crack it? They are basically playing the lotto and have a computer that takes a couple weeks to pick all the number combinations to get the winner?

RSXDC5 · 08-11-2014, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e39>all

Hmmm, so they didn't actually crack it? They are basically playing the lotto and have a computer that takes a couple weeks to pick all the number combinations to get the winner?

Seems like it.

Boss330 · 08-11-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e39>all

Hmmm, so they didn't actually crack it? They are basically playing the lotto and have a computer that takes a couple weeks to pick all the number combinations to get the winner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

Seems like it.

Not sure that we can conclude that...

As long as they actually are able to programme the F-series DME's they must have managed to find a way to do it. They are working on a 1-2 day "fix" but aren't quite there yet.

t335xi · 08-14-2014, 07:05 PM

sounds like they have to brute force the password for 2 weeks. once they have the password you can bring the car in and get it flash tuned. That's funny that the passwords are so weak though. must be less than 7 characters.

Dieselmd · 08-15-2014, 06:30 AM

I understand that BMW are extremely proud of their products and go to great lengths to have us consumers not tamper with it. I respect their stance on the subject.
However, could you imagine what the demand would be if these vehicles were more tuner-friendly like cars they are often compared to?
BMW, PLEASE MAKE THESE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS ACCESSIBLE. WE ACCEPT FULL RESPONSIBILITY.

M5Rlz · 08-15-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselmd

I understand that BMW are extremely proud of their products and go to great lengths to have us consumers not tamper with it. I respect their stance on the subject.
However, could you imagine what the demand would be if these vehicles were more tuner-friendly like cars they are often compared to?
BMW, PLEASE MAKE THESE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS ACCESSIBLE. WE ACCEPT FULL RESPONSIBILITY.

I doubt most people tune their cars in the 50+k range granted the margins get higher the lower the cost of the vehicle [see R&D going into m3/m4 vs. the m5/m6... MUCH BIGGER with way more players] but still its a minority.

JoeFromPA · 08-15-2014, 02:10 PM

Simple answer: When the car is delivered to the original owner, it should be given an owner's passcode for tuning that allows a wide variety of settings to be controlled externally.

If the owner's passcode is entered, that record should be stored in a massively encrypted place yet easily read by dealership software.

Give the owners the ability, and discretion, to modify. And make it clear that doing so voids certain engine part warranty.

This would quickly result in the following:

1. Those owners who modify would be prepared to pay to play
2. Fewer people under warranty would modify
3. The market for removable tuning systems would decrease in size because they are technically inferior to having actual DME control
4. BMW wouldn't need to invest as much time making their DME's crack-resistant.

Fast Intentions · 08-15-2014, 02:16 PM

INTERESTING! but due to the fact that they are located in germany , im guessing we have absolutely pretty much no shot for something like this here in the US? =/

Boss330 · 08-15-2014, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Simple answer: When the car is delivered to the original owner, it should be given an owner's passcode for tuning that allows a wide variety of settings to be controlled externally.

If the owner's passcode is entered, that record should be stored in a massively encrypted place yet easily read by dealership software.

Give the owners the ability, and discretion, to modify. And make it clear that doing so voids certain engine part warranty.

This would quickly result in the following:

1. Those owners who modify would be prepared to pay to play
2. Fewer people under warranty would modify
3. The market for removable tuning systems would decrease in size because they are technically inferior to having actual DME control
4. BMW wouldn't need to invest as much time making their DME's crack-resistant.

Your solution, however appealing, would be completely illegal by at least EU law... Anti-tampering measures are required to avoid modification of emissions related parametres in the engine management. Handing out a passcode to modify the DME, and thereby also voiding type approval requirements, would definitely be a serious breach of this legal requirement

Suspect the FMVSS has similar requirements to keep the car according to EPA/CARB requirements...

M5Rlz · 08-15-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Simple answer: When the car is delivered to the original owner, it should be given an owner's passcode for tuning that allows a wide variety of settings to be controlled externally.

If the owner's passcode is entered, that record should be stored in a massively encrypted place yet easily read by dealership software.

Give the owners the ability, and discretion, to modify. And make it clear that doing so voids certain engine part warranty.

This would quickly result in the following:

1. Those owners who modify would be prepared to pay to play
2. Fewer people under warranty would modify
3. The market for removable tuning systems would decrease in size because they are technically inferior to having actual DME control
4. BMW wouldn't need to invest as much time making their DME's crack-resistant.

Nice in theory but like the m5 if I'd bricked that with the JB4 instantly 40k+ for a new engine lmao... I don't care who you are nobody wants to shell that out and everyone would want a way to erase that trail.

Boss330 · 08-20-2014, 02:30 PM

This is the latest developments regarding DME software modifications from LEIB Engineering:

They are now able to ship already tuned DME’s to customers. At present time this currently only available for all N55 and S55 engines.

M5/M6 will be the next. It will be finished in the end of September.

Completely opened Vmax, deleted CEL and more is possible.

The first tunes are:

M135i & M235i: 390 PS and 525 Nm
M3 & M4: 550 PS and 650 Nm
All other x35i(s): 360 PS and 500 Nm

The customer can keep his own DME. They can now ship the already tuned DME directly to the customer.

All they need is some basic info of the car, in order to flash the correct base software.

They have also lowered the price AFAIK

Bowser330 · 08-20-2014, 02:33 PM

Are those numbers at the crank or at the wheels?

Boss330 · 08-20-2014, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser330

Are those numbers at the crank or at the wheels?

Crank AFAIK

Mandi90TT · 08-20-2014, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Intentions

INTERESTING! but due to the fact that they are located in germany , im guessing we have absolutely pretty much no shot for something like this here in the US? =/

Anyone have any idea if they do business outside the EU, for example, with us USA owners?

Bowser330 · 08-20-2014, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss330

Crank AFAIK

ok thank you.

Its funny that the BMW community is drooling for a flash and the Audi community is drooling for a piggyback,

grass is always greener....

08-08-2014, 01:34 PM	#24
WickedC5 Second Lieutenant 33 Rep 221 Posts Drives: 2014 335i xDrive BSM/Coral Red Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Il iTrader: (0)	Wonder what this would mean for the F30 335? 380+whp with just a tune on 93 Oct ? Keep us posted!
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08-08-2014, 09:34 PM	#25
apexit Captain 214 Rep 981 Posts Drives: 15 SO M3 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: northern nj iTrader: (-1)	Having a car down for 2 weeks in beyond stupid. WTF are they doing that they need 2 weeks?
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08-09-2014, 10:56 AM	#28
apexit Captain 214 Rep 981 Posts Drives: 15 SO M3 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: northern nj iTrader: (-1)	I'm no programmer but maybe it's like the movies where they hook up a computer and it goes through all the possibly encryption codes until it gets the right one. Wonder if thats what they do. Didn't mean to sound like I was knocking them, progress is progress.
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08-11-2014, 12:52 PM	#30
e39>all Second Lieutenant 3 Rep 228 Posts Drives: 09 335i sedan Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: TX iTrader: (0)	Hmmm, so they didn't actually crack it? They are basically playing the lotto and have a computer that takes a couple weeks to pick all the number combinations to get the winner?
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08-14-2014, 07:05 PM	#33
t335xi Private First Class 7 Rep 126 Posts Drives: 2013 335xi Sedan Sprt Line ppk Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Denver, Co iTrader: (0)	sounds like they have to brute force the password for 2 weeks. once they have the password you can bring the car in and get it flash tuned. That's funny that the passwords are so weak though. must be less than 7 characters.
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08-15-2014, 06:30 AM	#34
Dieselmd Private 9 Rep 95 Posts Drives: MW SO M4 DCT. EB M235i Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: United States iTrader: (1)	I understand that BMW are extremely proud of their products and go to great lengths to have us consumers not tamper with it. I respect their stance on the subject. However, could you imagine what the demand would be if these vehicles were more tuner-friendly like cars they are often compared to? BMW, PLEASE MAKE THESE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS ACCESSIBLE. WE ACCEPT FULL RESPONSIBILITY.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-15-2014, 02:10 PM	#36
JoeFromPA Colonel 1796 Rep 2,997 Posts Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: SE PA iTrader: (0)	Simple answer: When the car is delivered to the original owner, it should be given an owner's passcode for tuning that allows a wide variety of settings to be controlled externally. If the owner's passcode is entered, that record should be stored in a massively encrypted place yet easily read by dealership software. Give the owners the ability, and discretion, to modify. And make it clear that doing so voids certain engine part warranty. This would quickly result in the following: 1. Those owners who modify would be prepared to pay to play 2. Fewer people under warranty would modify 3. The market for removable tuning systems would decrease in size because they are technically inferior to having actual DME control 4. BMW wouldn't need to invest as much time making their DME's crack-resistant.
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08-15-2014, 02:16 PM	#37
Fast Intentions RELAPSED MOD ADDICT 179 Rep 432 Posts Drives: F10 F80 202 F97 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Staten Island NY iTrader: (0)	INTERESTING! but due to the fact that they are located in germany , im guessing we have absolutely pretty much no shot for something like this here in the US? =/
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08-20-2014, 02:30 PM	#40
Boss330 Major General 1718 Rep 5,110 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	This is the latest developments regarding DME software modifications from LEIB Engineering: They are now able to ship already tuned DME’s to customers. At present time this currently only available for all N55 and S55 engines. M5/M6 will be the next. It will be finished in the end of September. Completely opened Vmax, deleted CEL and more is possible. The first tunes are: M135i & M235i: 390 PS and 525 Nm M3 & M4: 550 PS and 650 Nm All other x35i(s): 360 PS and 500 Nm The customer can keep his own DME. They can now ship the already tuned DME directly to the customer. All they need is some basic info of the car, in order to flash the correct base software. They have also lowered the price AFAIK
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2014, 02:33 PM	#41
Bowser330 Lieutenant Colonel 289 Rep 1,575 Posts Drives: i3 REX Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Socal iTrader: (0)	Are those numbers at the crank or at the wheels?
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