JB4/Dinan/Others Really? Why?

[BlackCobra08]

I agree with the OP, these cars are perfect stock. That Steve guy from TX was complaining how he has no traction anymore after getting the Dinan...f that. I am coming from modding wrx's and STi's but those things were only 75% out of the factory. I ain't doing any of that on my M3 for many reasons; cost, lower reliability, if you ever decide to sell the M3 then you have to part it all out, and I'm driving this in the winter so yea.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by BlackCobra08

I agree with the OP, these cars are perfect stock. That Steve guy from TX was complaining how he has no traction anymore after getting the Dinan...f that. I am coming from modding wrx's and STi's but those things were only 75% out of the factory. I ain't doing any of that on my M3 for many reasons; cost, lower reliability, if you ever decide to sell the M3 then you have to part it all out, and I'm driving this in the winter so yea.

Of course you're not going to have any traction with 275 street tires on the back, especially if you're going dealing with over 500 horsepower and RWD. That's why you need supporting mods, which include wider tires. I plan on eventually putting down over 600whp, but I'll be going with either a 305 tire and 11" wheels in the rear or a 325 tire and 12" wheels in the rear. And if I'm still having traction issues with PSS tires, I'll start running PSC tires instead.

And keep in mind, this will be my DD.

[m3incorp]

I completely agree and of course some people tend to forget that how hard you plant your foot on the gas pedal has a lot to do with traction also. Note that the tuners are now starting to develop tunes that don't do any or much increases until a certain RPM or gear change.

Originally Posted by Revartr

Of course you're not going to have any traction with 275 street tires on the back, especially if you're going dealing with over 500 horsepower and RWD. That's why you need supporting mods, which include wider tires. I plan on eventually putting down over 600whp, but I'll be going with either a 305 tire and 11" wheels in the rear or a 325 tire and 12" wheels in the rear. And if I'm still having traction issues with PSS tires, I'll start running PSC tires instead.

And keep in mind, this will be my DD.

[m3incorp]

It is called moderation on the accelerator. I've driven a few Dinan tuned cars and never felt that there was as he says no traction. Heck, you can spin the wheels on a Chevy Malibu in the rain. If you go EASY on the gas pedal then there won't be any traction problems. For those that say there is already enough power, I suggest shifting into 4th and flooring it.

Originally Posted by BlackCobra08

I agree with the OP, these cars are perfect stock. That Steve guy from TX was complaining how he has no traction anymore after getting the Dinan...f that. I am coming from modding wrx's and STi's but those things were only 75% out of the factory. I ain't doing any of that on my M3 for many reasons; cost, lower reliability, if you ever decide to sell the M3 then you have to part it all out, and I'm driving this in the winter so yea.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by m3incorp

It is called moderation on the accelerator. I've driven a few Dinan tuned cars and never felt that there was as he says no traction. Heck, you can spin the wheels on a Chevy Malibu in the rain. If you go EASY on the gas pedal then there won't be any traction problems. For those that say there is already enough power, I suggest shifting into 4th and flooring it.

There's a moderately famous quote by Mark Donahue (he of Trans Am and Cam Am dominance, driving for Roger Penske), during a discussion in regard to handling problems on the stupendously fast Porsche Turbo Can Am car. One of the engineers said "At least we have enough power."

Donahue said "When I can't use full throttle until the last 100 feet of the longest straight we run on during the season, then we have enough power".

[Mik3ymomo]

You can tell who the folks are that haven't regularly raced and owned high HP cars before lol.

12 second cars are like a gateway into what truly powerful and fast is all about.

It may be more than enough for the average Joe on the street but many of us who track their cars would like to actually keep up with everyone else there.

10 second car is the new 12 second car.
Cars like the Z06, GT-R etc are 10 second cars from the factory.

No disrespect; but people worried about blowing off cold street tires would be better served driving an Audi. Honestly. AWD and 400hp is probably exactly what you are after.

You won't feel overwhelmed with the driving experience. You can stomp on it and it will just go.

[dhoggm3]

Originally Posted by Mik3ymomo

You can tell who the folks are that haven't regularly raced and owned high HP cars before lol.

12 second cars are like a gateway into what truly powerful and fast is all about.

It may be more than enough for the average Joe on the street but many of us who track their cars would like to actually keep up with everyone else there.

10 second car is the new 12 second car.
Cars like the Z06, GT-R etc are 10 second cars from the factory.

No disrespect; but people worried about blowing off cold street tires would be better served driving an Audi. Honestly. AWD and 400hp is probably exactly what you are after.

You won't feel overwhelmed with the driving experience. You can stomp on it and it will just go.

You mean haven't drag raced their cars, right?

[Mik3ymomo]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

You mean haven't drag raced their cars, right?

Last road course I was on had straights tied together with some turns.
As a matter of fact its where all the passing of the slower cars was happening.

[dhoggm3]

Well, you might just be surprised at the collective racing experience on this forum. You may want to consider that before slinging around assumptions.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Mik3ymomo

You can tell who the folks are that haven't regularly raced and owned high HP cars before lol.

12 second cars are like a gateway into what truly powerful and fast is all about.

It may be more than enough for the average Joe on the street but many of us who track their cars would like to actually keep up with everyone else there.

10 second car is the new 12 second car.
Cars like the Z06, GT-R etc are 10 second cars from the factory.

No disrespect; but people worried about blowing off cold street tires would be better served driving an Audi. Honestly. AWD and 400hp is probably exactly what you are after.

You won't feel overwhelmed with the driving experience. You can stomp on it and it will just go.

LOL. Agreed.

[MaynardZed]

I pass 12 second cars at the track all the time in my 14 second car. Big difference between drag racing and road racing.

[Mik3ymomo]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

Well, you might just be surprised at the collective racing experience on this forum. You may want to consider that before slinging around assumptions.

Just not this thread.

[dhoggm3]

Riiiiiiight.

[dhoggm3]

Recent Road & Track test of the M4:

Road & Track Senior Editor Jason Cammisa thinks so. This car is nauseatingly fast. It's also unacceptably traction-compromised. Reducing torque output by 150 lb-ft would do wonders here. He might be right. This car requires rheostat-precise use of the throttle to avoid unpredictable yaw. Or you can just leave the BMW's electronic nannies on, which might be smarter. Two or three generations ago, the M3 gave up on the idea of being the perfect modern 2002tii and decided instead to focus on power and track pace. If that's what you want, it's all here.

The M3 is the only car to actually scare me at the Motown Mile. Going around the fast final turn, the torque spikes and sends me into a long, lazy, 100-mph slide that I don't recover until well down the front straight. Forget this being a German Trans Am; it's a German Corvette. "This car is nightmarish to control under power," concurs Cammisa. "It's so much work, and there's no joy to be had as a result."

But hey, forget the experts. They're probably too old to know any better. I (OP) will say that with better throttle modulation - as in Economy mode without the e-throttle blip - it would be easier to control than it is in Sport.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

Recent Road & Track test of the M4:

Road & Track Senior Editor Jason Cammisa thinks so. This car is nauseatingly fast. It's also unacceptably traction-compromised. Reducing torque output by 150 lb-ft would do wonders here. He might be right. This car requires rheostat-precise use of the throttle to avoid unpredictable yaw. Or you can just leave the BMW's electronic nannies on, which might be smarter. Two or three generations ago, the M3 gave up on the idea of being the perfect modern 2002tii and decided instead to focus on power and track pace. If that's what you want, it's all here.

The M3 is the only car to actually scare me at the Motown Mile. Going around the fast final turn, the torque spikes and sends me into a long, lazy, 100-mph slide that I don't recover until well down the front straight. Forget this being a German Trans Am; it's a German Corvette. "This car is nightmarish to control under power," concurs Cammisa. "It's so much work, and there's no joy to be had as a result."

But hey, forget the experts. They're probably too old to know any better. I (OP) will say that with better throttle modulation - as in Economy mode without the e-throttle blip - it would be easier to control than it is in Sport.

I think that what you're not realizing is that most people who are planning on increasing power are also planning on upgrading other aspects, which will allow one to put that increased power (along with that from the factory) to the ground and on the track. Supporting mods like wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, etc.

As for me? I'm hoping to be pushing over 600whp on my F82 in the next year or so. But I also plan on running a fat set of Pilot Sport Cups, KW suspension, and Brembos, and I highly doubt I'll have many issues keeping traction.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Revartr

I think that what you're not realizing is that most people who are planning on increasing power are also planning on upgrading other aspects, which will allow one to put that increased power (along with that from the factory) to the ground and on the track. Supporting mods like wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, etc.

As for me? I'm hoping to be pushing over 600whp on my F82 in the next year or so. But I also plan on running a fat set of Pilot Sport Cups, KW suspension, and Brembos, and I highly doubt I'll have many issues keeping traction.

So adding an additional 170whp over stock (which has issues with traction already)...you think adding a "fat set" of PSC's are going to solve all your traction issues? Interesting.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by P-TownM3

So adding an additional 170whp over stock (which has issues with traction already)...you think adding a "fat set" of PSC's are going to solve all your traction issues? Interesting.

I never said that a set of tires would "solve all of my traction issues", nor do you need to be so condescending with me.

All I'm saying is that, coupled with supporting mods and driver skill, you can easily handle that much power and more. 600whp isn't THAT much, especially considering there are RWD vehicles (Corvette, Viper, etc.) putting down close to that from the factory and running some of the fastest 'Ring times with street tires. Not to mention plenty of aftermarket guys running that and MUCH more power on RWD platforms, and they're doing just fine.

That much power isn't for everybody, but some (like me) enjoy it and can handle it.

[xnu]

Originally Posted by P-TownM3

So adding an additional 170whp over stock (which has issues with traction already)...you think adding a "fat set" of PSC's are going to solve all your traction issues? Interesting.

I know right? RE11's is where it at . It all seriousness its not the additional horsepower he has to worry about, its the additional torque.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Revartr

I never said that a set of tires would "solve all of my traction issues", nor do you need to be so condescending with me.

All I'm saying is that, coupled with supporting mods and driver skill, you can easily handle that much power and more. 600whp isn't THAT much, especially considering there are RWD vehicles (Corvette, Viper, etc.) putting down close to that from the factory and running some of the fastest 'Ring times with street tires. Not to mention plenty of aftermarket guys running that and MUCH more power on RWD platforms, and they're doing just fine.

That much power isn't for everybody, but some (like me) enjoy it and can handle it.

Corvettes and Vipers wear much fatter rears, yes...but they also have a much different torque curve than the M3/4. Granted a Viper has 600 ft/lbs of torque, but it also makes that peak at 5k rpm, and wears 355 19's in the rear.

Sorry to sound condescending, but have you driven a F8x yet? Without the nannies? It is very, very difficult to put power down in this car off the line, let alone upping the power to over 600whp, and the associated torque increase. You just made it sound like putting on fatter tires and a suspension was going to be a panacea "I highly doubt I'll have many issues keeping traction."

But hey, like you said...you can handle it...so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by xnu

I know right? RE11's is where it at . It all seriousness its not the additional horsepower he has to worry about, its the additional torque.

You can never have too much torque. Well...I take that back. I'm still considering going with a set of Toyo R888's if I'll end up needing them. Good friend of mine has a built/swapped and F/I'd 4th gen. Z28 with every supporting mod imaginable putting down a little over 700whp at the dyno. Runs slicks whenever he takes it to the strip, but he has a set of PSC's he uses for street driving. I've had the pleasure of driving it a couple of times, and while it can still lose traction, it's not really difficult to control. Just gotta know how to feather the throttle properly.

I've heard one reason the F8X has so much trouble catching traction is because it's geared higher too. I'm still learning more and more about it, considering I'm taking delivery in about a month. But there's always a way to handle power. To each their own.

[BPe90M3]

Its never fast enough my friend lol

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by P-TownM3

Corvettes and Vipers wear much fatter rears, yes...but they also have a much different torque curve than the M3/4. Granted a Viper has 600 ft/lbs of torque, but it also makes that peak at 5k rpm, and wears 355 19's in the rear.

Sorry to sound condescending, but have you driven a F8x yet? Without the nannies? It is very, very difficult to put power down in this car off the line, let alone upping the power to over 600whp, and the associated torque increase. You just made it sound like putting on fatter tires and a suspension was going to be a panacea "I highly doubt I'll have many issues keeping traction."

But hey, like you said...you can handle it...so it shouldn't be an issue.

I haven't had the pleasure yet, but I'm taking PCD delivery next month. And I could see that. I've also heard the gearing is pretty high in the F8X, which would make it even more difficult. I could see how I may have come off that way, but I was simply saying that with the right supporting mods, you can put down that much power. I'm still learning more and more about the F8X, but I've also driven (and owned) my fair share of high power cars before this. So I also have my own assumptions and thoughts. I'm planning on trying to run a set of 325 (or 305 if a 325 won't fit) Pilot Sport Cups or Toyo R888's.

And by that, I simply meant that I've had no issues handling how powered cars up to this point. So I don't plan on making this a first.