M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Actually - there is. On TM3, you can disable all traction control gizmos by unplugging front wheel speed sensor.
Not the most elegant of an interface, but fully effective nonetheless.
a

Thanks for the tip. Any link to source?

Does it interfere with car's ability to torque vector at all?

And I don't know man, a big power gas car can take a Tesla in a 60+ mph roll race. It's not dominant in all acceleration contests like a big power gas car on R tires

[Big ken]

M3

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for the tip. Any link to source?

Does it interfere with car's ability to torque vector at all?

And I don't know man, a big power gas car can take a Tesla in a 60+ mph roll race. It's not dominant in all acceleration contests like a big power gas car on R tires

I guess if the single goal is 60mph -plus races, yes, you may prefer an ICE for your daily driver.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

I guess if the single goal is 60mph -plus races, yes, you may prefer an ICE for your daily driver.

Definitely.

Also the other member said

If you don't track your M3 (true for 95+% of the owners), TM3 is a very attractive and a MUCH faster ride.
Let me repeat that - you have to experience TM3 acceleration to get a new appreciation for what a modern $1+M HYPER car can deliver.

I felt that's a big oversell of the model 3 capabilities, especially in higher speed situations.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Definitely.

Also the other member said

I felt that's a big oversell of the model 3 capabilities, especially in higher speed situations.

I must say, after 3 weeks of Tesla M3P ownership, the zero to 60mph (or so) runs, literally make me and any passengers laugh with amazement. The immediate torque never gets old.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

I must say, after 3 weeks of Tesla M3P ownership, the zero to 60mph (or so) runs, literally make me and any passengers laugh with amazement. The immediate torque never gets old.

I agree. It's an awesome party trick.

And EAP is awesome and will only get better.

What's your assessment of acceleration from 60+ mph?

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Just wanted to update that I got off the fence and ordered a model 3 performance today.

Got it with the "performance" option so I can get the "track mode" stability control program. Will take it to Sonoma when I get it in ~2 months and report back on how it does

If anyone in NorCal does DE or TT days in a stock f80, please PM me. Would love to do a friendly comparo to supplement all of the bench racing and ICE vs EV generalizations flying around the thread.

Edit: Despite it being an EV I'm as excited as when I placed my euro delivery order in Dec 2014

M235xi owner getting a P3D on 11/10. Posted up in the 2addicts forum and it was FAR less of a healthy dialogue than in here. Can't wait for mine!

[BMW M Power Mexico]

I frequently take 400 km highway drives where 180-230kph constant speeds are routine. That would kill the range of any electric. And passing power at high speeds is far more important than 0-60 party tricks.

Electrics are still far from applicable to my use case. For city use, absolutely.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico

I frequently take 400 km highway drives where 180-230kph constant speeds are routine. That would kill the range of any electric. And passing power at high speeds is far more important than 0-60 party tricks.

Electrics are still far from applicable to my use case. For city use, absolutely.

Apparently if you are going a steady 100mph the power usage is 580Wh per mile. That is about 1.7 miles per kWh it's about 127miles of range on a 75kwh fully charged battery.

Rated range of 300 mile is achieved with 250kwh per mile, which you can do if you are going 72ish mph

Definitely not appropriate for your sustained high speed usage. That's classic German highway missile use case.

And frankly, I think that's why electrics have been such a blind spot for German companies, until tesla started to eat their lunch

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by crbalch

M235xi owner getting a P3D on 11/10. Posted up in the 2addicts forum and it was FAR less of a healthy dialogue than in here. Can't wait for mine!

Congrats!!!

It's definitely a polarizing car, and for the usual enthusiast who has a big check list of high power gas cars they want to own, it's hard to see the point of paying for a $75k+ EV

It wasn't until after I owned f80 and 911 turbo that I was able to really think objectively about how I use cars in North America and why EV make good sense as a street car

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Congrats!!!

It's definitely a polarizing car, and for the usual enthusiast who has a big check list of high power gas cars they want to own, it's hard to see the point of paying for a $75k+ EV

It wasn't until after I owned f80 and 911 turbo that I was able to really think objectively about how I use cars in North America and why EV make good sense as a street car

Very polarizing man. I'm only 30 but have had the chance to order a 2012 135i, and 2016 M235xi, so I have had a good bit of fun with my cars. The next logical step for me would have been an M3, or M2 GC if they ever came out with it. So it was either that or the P3D, and I am very happy with my decision and thats just based off of the tech and few test drives I've done. You have helped reinforce my decision though!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by crbalch

Very polarizing man. I'm only 30 but have had the chance to order a 2012 135i, and 2016 M235xi, so I have had a good bit of fun with my cars. The next logical step for me would have been an M3, or M2 GC if they ever came out with it. So it was either that or the P3D, and I am very happy with my decision and thats just based off of the tech and few test drives I've done. You have helped reinforce my decision though!

Glad I could help. I've tried to be as balanced as possible when discussing the model 3 but I really do like it a lot.

Hope you get yours soon

[IS350]

Originally Posted by crbalch

M235xi owner getting a P3D on 11/10. Posted up in the 2addicts forum and it was FAR less of a healthy dialogue than in here. Can't wait for mine!

You will love it. I'm preparing to transfer my BMW M3. I realized how good this Tesla is when I didn't miss driving the BMW. And I also love that Bmw.

The one pedal driving is also so easy in the Tesla. I still can't get over how quick it is.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I agree. It's an awesome party trick.

And EAP is awesome and will only get better.

What's your assessment of acceleration from 60+ mph?

Sorry, late on this. I know the torque is less extreme at higher speed but I honestly don't feel that I missing much power compared to the BMW, you?

[Thescout13]

Tesla just lowered price of the M3P by $5k. Probably wants to make it a big more competitive. For early adopters $5k refund or free supercharging for life.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Sorry, late on this. I know the torque is less extreme at higher speed but I honestly don't feel that I missing much power compared to the BMW, you?

Clear out your inbox man! I can't pm you back.

It's subtle but I do notice there's less pulling power at high speed.

I can count with both hands the number of times I've done a 60-120+ pull in the last 2 years so it doesn't much matter.

Hmm I feel like an rs5 owner justifying why it's ok my porky 4000lb car can only trap 115mph. Lol. "But it's great from a launch and comfortable to cruise in" lol.

I'm going to ask for the $5k refund since I have an L2 charger at home. What about you?

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Clear out your inbox man! I can't pm you back.

It's subtle but I do notice there's less pulling power at high speed.

I can count with both hands the number of times I've done a 60-120+ pull in the last 2 years so it doesn't much matter.

Hmm I feel like an rs5 owner justifying why it's ok my porky 4000lb car can only trap 115mph. Lol. "But it's great from a launch and comfortable to cruise in" lol.

I'm going to ask for the $5k refund since I have an L2 charger at home. What about you?

Sorry, I'm apparently a hoarder with my inbox.

I'm the same, I had ambitions to track my M3 much more than I did my previous ones and it's just never happened.

This is the most fun for a daily driver I think I've ever had in any car.

I'm using arithmetic to add up the value of the supercharger versus the $5000. Of course the cost of charging will go up over time I guess it depends how long I keep this car.

Since I couldn't lease it, I daydream about holding onto this one for a longer making the lift Erin free supercharging more valuable.

How long do you think you'll keep yours?

How quick does your current charger work per hour? 40 miles or so? What was the total cost for install plus equipment?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Sorry, I'm apparently a hoarder with my inbox.

I'm the same, I had ambitions to track my M3 much more than I did my previous ones and it's just never happened.

This is the most fun for a daily driver I think I've ever had in any car.

I'm using arithmetic to add up the value of the supercharger versus the $5000. Of course the cost of charging will go up over time I guess it depends how long I keep this car.

Since I couldn't lease it, I daydream about holding onto this one for a longer making the lift Erin free supercharging more valuable.

How long do you think you'll keep yours?

How quick does your current charger work per hour? 40 miles or so? What was the total cost for install plus equipment?

If you drive 15k miles a year and travel 3.5mi per kWh, the value of 1 year of SC is about $1.1k assuming $0.26/kWh and you only charge at SC

For me, I charge at home paying $0.125/kWh so the value to me is only $0.5k per year, so I'll take the $5k refund for sure. Especially since I plan to get solar + batteries eventually.

I got $1000 in credits to get a charger and install from my last car so it cost me $400 to get it. It does 7.2kwh so about 25miles per hour plugged in

Agreed. I liked my f80 a lot and enjoyed tracking it so much I got serious and got a spec Miata. Its so ironic that it took a super fast street car like F80 to get me into a 23 yr old car.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

If you drive 15k miles a year and travel 3.5mi per kWh, the value of 1 year of SC is about $1.1k assuming $0.26/kWh and you only charge at SC

For me, I charge at home paying $0.125/kWh so the value to me is only $0.5k per year, so I'll take the $5k refund for sure. Especially since I plan to get solar + batteries eventually.

I got $1000 in credits to get a charger and install from my last car so it cost me $400 to get it. It does 7.2kwh so about 25miles per hour plugged in

Agreed. I liked my f80 a lot and enjoyed tracking it so much I got serious and got a spec Miata. Its so ironic that it took a super fast street car like F80 to get me into a 23 yr old car.

Thanks for the number crunching! Are you a CPA? 😊

In South Carolina, the SC fees are $.20 per minute above 60KW and $.10 per minute below 60KW. So, guess I could average at $.15 cents. Probably still takes me close to $1k/year in savings with free SC, assuming all charging done at SC?

Of course Energy charges will increase in the years but if I plan to keep the car more than five years supercharging would have value?

Nice work on your charger. If I just get my free charger linked to 240v, I should get 20 miles per hour charging?

That Miata must be a nice contrast for tracking, so light!

Speaking of competition, sure you saw this? Older Mustang, but good performance out of that Tesla.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...drag-race/amp/

Btw, you notice a bit more wind noise in yours, vs the BMW?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks for the number crunching! Are you a CPA? 😊

In South Carolina, the SC fees are $.20 per minute above 60KW and $.10 per minute below 60KW. So, guess I could average at $.15 cents. Probably still takes me close to $1k/year in savings with free SC, assuming all charging done at SC?

Of course Energy charges will increase in the years but if I plan to keep the car more than five years supercharging would have value?

Nice work on your charger. If I just get my free charger linked to 240v, I should get 20 miles per hour charging?

That Miata must be a nice contrast for tracking, so light!

Speaking of competition, sure you saw this? Older Mustang, but good performance out of that Tesla.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...drag-race/amp/

Btw, you notice a bit more wind noise in yours, vs the BMW?

Luck with the lower SC rates in SC. You must be a huge outlier there with an EV.

So you need the right amperage. Go for a nema14-50 outlet (50a /240v) aka clothes dryer outlet. That should get you 40ax240v=9,600w = 9.6kw per hour. Should be closer to 30-35 miles per hour plugged in for you.

I'm at Sonoma today; will report back in whether I can go a whole day at the track without having to leave to SC. The L2 charger here is only 4kw per hour so that's going to make it close.

I don't think the wind noise is higher vs the f80, just more noticeable because there is less noise overall. I also had re11 tires on my f80, which were loud.

Love the Miata for tracking. Cheap to run and accelerates learning curve. Wish I had lesser ego and got one many years ago

[nicknaz]

So, I used up 20kwh (27% of battery) in a 20min session.

There are 3 hours in between session at this club, so if the L2 charger at the track had been the usual 7kw per hour instead of a slow 4kw, it wouldn't have been an issue to use the car for DEs.

The big limiting factor is the PS4S commuter spec tires. They just aren't enough for the 4000lb weight and big torque

Edit: there was a stock f82 in my group. He got a warning light for reduce power... I know that is an anomaly but it is quite ironic

Edit2: so the car certainly reduced its power output towards the end of the session, but I was able to continue lapping at a reasonable pace. There was a stock c7 z51 and we were sharing the open track at a similar pace throughout the session (NASA NorCal hpde4 open track event). I was not using a transponder today.

I needed to leave the event tonuse a nearby SC but it was fine since the club did 20min x3 sessions and 1 30 minute session with several hours in between.

Brakes were fine but tires were getting pushed hard and I have some chunking on the tread block now.

Despite being an EV, I can confirm that stock vs stock, the fun level at an hpde is on par with my old f80 dct.

I don't by into the marketing that this car is "faster than competitors" but it's definitely a credible alternative to m3,c63, Atsv

As a bonus, it's doing the freeway driving for me on the way home.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So, I used up 20kwh (27% of battery) in a 20min session.

There are 3 hours in between session at this club, so if the L2 charger at the track had been the usual 7kw per hour instead of a slow 4kw, it wouldn't have been an issue to use the car for DEs.

The big limiting factor is the PS4S commuter spec tires. They just aren't enough for the 4000lb weight and big torque

Edit: there was a stock f82 in my group. He got a warning light for reduce power... I know that is an anomaly but it is quite ironic

Edit2: so the car certainly reduced its power output towards the end of the session, but I was able to continue lapping at a reasonable pace. There was a stock c7 z51 and we were sharing the open track at a similar pace throughout the session (NASA NorCal hpde4 open track event). I was not using a transponder today.

I needed to leave the event tonuse a nearby SC but it was fine since the club did 20min x3 sessions and 1 30 minute session with several hours in between.

Brakes were fine but tires were getting pushed hard and I have some chunking on the tread block now.

Despite being an EV, I can confirm that stock vs stock, the fun level at an hpde is on par with my old f80 dct.

I don't by into the marketing that this car is "faster than competitors" but it's definitely a credible alternative to m3,c63, Atsv

As a bonus, it's doing the freeway driving for me on the way home.

Thanks for the review! Great stuff. Think you'd get similar times in the BMW, assuming no faults?

Appreciate the supercharge info. Think the South Carolina per minute charge is comparable to the per KW charge? Just want to make sure I'm crunching numbers correctly. Guessing 60K miles would equate to around the $5k credit?

Still, something lucrative about never paying for a charge if I keep the car for 6 or 7 years.