991 GT3 RS Price Point

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

I initially thought that would be worth to give a shot and try to show/demonstrate or even educate one about the subject, but after your post I see that would be the same for you to try to explain or even share your experiences as a plastic surgeon with me, totally worthless as my level of knowledge in this subject wouldn't allow me to appreciate it.

I wrote the answer a few times until I deleted it all after getting into this conclusion.

Good luck !

BTW - following your line of initial thoughts what would make one pay 100k for a 'beefed up' 528i ?

@Turbolag, don't waste your time.

Check my post above ... trying to keep it civil, and the good point on a forum is to be able to have constructive discussion with a possibility of different point of views about a certain subject, where individuals can share their knowledge and or experience.
When this fails to happen it's no longer interesting, and also when you have individuals that have nothing positive to bring to the discussion, the purpose is lost.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger

Maybe i should base my opinion in someone that "needsdecaf" instead of one the top automotive journalists in the world, with dozens of books written about Supercars and host of THE MOST successful car show of the 21st Century, but sure right is so laughable to trust one of the most respected reviewers in the auto industry, sure...

Clarkson's reviews are very tongue in cheek, and he has clear biases.

His aim is to entertain you, which he has clearly done, not give honest opinions about cars. He is not an "automotive journalist" he is an entertainer. Most of his books have been about life and comedy, not Supercars.

You want to quote someone's opinion, ask Chris Harris and then get back to me.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Clarkson's reviews are very tongue in cheek, and he has clear biases.

His aim is to entertain you, which he has clearly done, not give honest opinions about cars. He is not an "automotive journalist" he is an entertainer. Most of his books have been about life and comedy, not Supercars.

You want to quote someone's opinion, ask Chris Harris and then get back to me.

Harris rocks. I get a lot out of every one of his reviews.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by turbolag

Clarkson's a comedian.

Not a reviewer.

If I wanted a reviewer I would go to Jalopnik (You seem to be there a lot, you go on Oppo?) or /drive's Chris Harris.

GT3 RS...so, this, the R8 V10+, and Turbo S are competing in price point. So AWD Supercar, stripped out track car, and insanely fast GT compete with each other, while still having a valid argument for competition.

So Carlos, may I please ask your honorable self a few questions? First, what's your opinion on the Audi R8 V10 that's based on a mere 120k car? Second, why did you spend 95k on a beefed up 520i?

Your beating a dead horse. Someone spends to much time reading about cars than driving them. Anyone who makes the statement that I know more about Porsches then 99% of the people on here, sounds silly.

[Randy M]

GT3's are great cars for backroads and race tracks. Daily drivers they are not. I wasn't driving my .2 GT3 so much and sold it because it sacrificed too much in order to achieve the performance it possesses. Many GT3's have low miles for this reason.

Also imo Porsche absolutely gouges it's customers, and come warranty time I have no confidence in the company because of the decisions they've been making recently. They're choosing to not warranty center locks or issue a recall even though some have lost their wheels, and the adhesive in the coolant lines have been coming unglued thereby coating the rear wheels...yeah no recall on that either as the engine has to be dropped. The rear diffs fail in short order and the clutches burn out too quickly as well.

So when you have GT3 and want to keep it, these are the things you may have to deal with down the road. They are high maintenance.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Rated R

GT3's are great cars for backroads and race tracks. Daily drivers they are not. I wasn't driving my .2 GT3 so much and sold it because it sacrificed too much in order to achieve the performance it possesses. Many GT3's have low miles for this reason.

Also imo Porsche absolutely gouges it's customers, and come warranty time I have no confidence in the company because of the decisions they've been making recently. They're choosing to not warranty center locks or issue a recall even though some have lost their wheels, and the adhesive in the coolant lines have been coming unglued thereby coating the rear wheels...yeah no recall on that either as the engine has to be dropped. The rear diffs fail in short order and the clutches burn out too quickly as well.

So when you have GT3 and want to keep it, these are the things you may have to deal with down the road. They are high maintenance.

I hate to bud-in, but...

Center Locks are warrantied, I think you got some misinformation. Many of the issues about people losing their wheels were about not following proper procedure on mounting them for tracking purposes. However, Porsche still replaced the rear CLs on certain VINs for 997.2 GT3/RS versions at the beginning of the year and clarified the mounting procedures and maintenance cycles. Regardless, no one likes the CLs certainly.

My GT3 is a daily driver, and to me it is not much of a compromise, but each person's expectations of a daily driver is quite different understandably. Many Porschefiles criticize the 997 GT3 for getting softer than 996, and geared more for DD duty than motorsport purposes, and now we are having the same discussions for the 991, which has increased 'technology' and computer control than either of the previous models. We'll see what people truly think of the 991 GT3 once its on US roads.

[paddy335]

I am firmly in the "bmw budget now and aspiring to the GT3 in a few years". While i love bmw products, and have no doubt an M3 will be an awesome ownership experience, to me the gt3 has always represented the pinnacle of "motorsport for the street", as close as I can get to a race car but drive to work jb to. I don't aspire to an RS, too uncompromising for NZ roads.
Porsche is the ultimate.
Clarkson Is a funny man, but he is definitely no car guru. He recommended the Ford GT for gods sake. And the hairdressers SLK (albeit with a supercharged 5.5 v8 )

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by Rated R

GT3's are great cars for backroads and race tracks. Daily drivers they are not. I wasn't driving my .2 GT3 so much and sold it because it sacrificed too much in order to achieve the performance it possesses. Many GT3's have low miles for this reason.

Also imo Porsche absolutely gouges it's customers, and come warranty time I have no confidence in the company because of the decisions they've been making recently. They're choosing to not warranty center locks or issue a recall even though some have lost their wheels, and the adhesive in the coolant lines have been coming unglued thereby coating the rear wheels...yeah no recall on that either as the engine has to be dropped. The rear diffs fail in short order and the clutches burn out too quickly as well.

So when you have GT3 and want to keep it, these are the things you may have to deal with down the road. They are high maintenance.

Only point I can agree with you is in the coolant lines.

Everything else is called user error.

CL - recall, warranty and maintenance campaigned. While I haven't seen myself, I know of a few incidents in regular GT3s a no RS.
Diff - a lot more people winning about than people that can actually drive the car. Cars being driven at track at 5/10th for its winning owners thinking they have a performance flaw only because they read it on a forum.
Sold my car with 15K miles and a lot
Of those track miles, never replaced the diff and still extremely fast and capable. If it serves for anything.
Clutch - scary the amount of people that can't shift or drive a manual car properly. I'm another pure example. 15K miles stock clutch. No overrevs just proper heel and toe with rev matching and your clutch is running strong with its 3rd owner.

A lot of missinformation out there from people that think too much instead of driving. Don't believe in everything you read on the internet, instead get first hand experience.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger

You dont get to ask me that, you own a beefed up 3 series,
i bought an uber saloon with 560HP+ for about 40% MSRP over
a 535i, hes getting a 200k 911, way different

I own a beefed up 3 series with a bespoke engine.

You own a beefed up 520i with a tuned engine from a 550i. Also I don't get to ask you what?

Also, since 520i's aren't sold in America...let's use the 528i as an example. That starts at 50k. Your car starts at 90k. That's almost double.

My E90 M3 cost me just a bit more than 60k. A 328i would be in the whereabouts of 45k. Eh?

Also, C2S would be 120k properly optioned. GT3 RS would be 180k. Closer to you and your M5, but the GT3 RS has way more bespoke parts.

[Falafel Combo]

The Internet.

[pkimM3r]

I need gt3 rs or not in my lifetime.

There was a clean 4.0 rs at the track yesterday. Sadly it broke down and had to be trailored back. On the otherhand, there was a yellow gt3 that oh my sounded fantastic. It must have been straight piped. You couldnt hear shit behind it!!

[tdizzle]

I want to know where I can get a M5 for 40% MSRP. Carlos, help a brotha out!

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

I want to know where I can get a M5 for 40% MSRP. Carlos, help a brotha out!

I am not sure much of what carlos says is based on reality

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by paddy335

I am not sure much of what carlos says is based on reality

None of it is based on reality.

He's convinced his F10 M5 is somehow cutting edge while E9x's are already obsolete. Apparently, an old design means a car is a piece of trash, and utterly useless. So, I guess he isn't quite a fan of the M1, then.

[paddy335]

Or where it all started, the 3.0 CSL

[19x]

Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger

Nope, still doesn't make any sense, if im paying 200k i want a supercar built from scratch, i want something unique, not a car based on volume seller entry level 911, i want a Gallardo, i want an SLS AMG i want a car that was built to be a supercar, not an afterthought, but since this is a personal choice, to each his own...

It's just personal preference pal, Jeremy Clarkson hates 911 because they haven't innovated again since the 50s, they just keep evolving the same design, according to him they had a great idea and they just keep living off of it, he has states this in a lot of episodes, if you love the 911 fine, i want to be awed and surprised at the next thing a car maker is going to come up with, Lamborghini is the prime example of this, every new car you lay back and say wow, think Aventador, Egoista, etc

You redefine what it means to be a poser, rather than an enthusiast.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by s54power

You redefine what it means to be a poser, rather than an enthusiast.

In fact he defines the stereotype "BMW drivers are w***ers", but also, unfortunately is probably a perfect representation of the type of driver/market segment that BMW aims the M3/4 at. i.e. desiring of a luxury status symbol that he can brag about it's performance stat's while never going anywhere near them except occasionally at some city traffic lights.

[dreamspeed]

I always thought the M3 vs GT3 cross shopping was with new M3 vs USED GT3.

The GT3 is for those that want a street legal track car. A car much more at home on the track than on the street... An upgrade to something like a Lotus. A "supercar" like Ferraris and Lamborghinis certainly have the requisite performance resume but they are usually relegated to "hard park" duty.

[m3evobr]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

I always thought the M3 vs GT3 cross shopping was with new M3 vs USED GT3.

The GT3 is for those that want a street legal track car. A car much more at home on the track than on the street... An upgrade to something like a Lotus. A "supercar" like Ferraris and Lamborghinis certainly have the requisite performance resume but they are usually relegated to "hard park" duty.

Maybe with the 996 versions this was the case, but not with the successors, they became pretty easy to live with in a regular basis. Of course if you compare with an M3, the M3 is a more practical car, with bigger boot, not so low to get in and out, but at least for me that's about it.
I drive my GT2 in a regular basis and only not so practical part is in and out of the bucket seats if running errands. If you're the type of personal that you drive from home to work and back, I wouldn't hesitate to have it as a daily.
Although there are much better cars for this task if you would ask me.
Bought a 328 D for the wife and I really enjoy driving it. Now my Touareg TDi gets HORRIBLE MPG, I want a 328D Wagon myself.

[sparkyg]

I would love to own a GT3 someday but I'm not sure it would get enough km to justify $130k+.

Even used is a lot of $$$.

I dont think the Gallardo is anything that special either. An F car maybe but I know people who own them and they struggle with it as a DD or even weekend car. Its a loud car meant for driving alone.

I dont know about the new M3/M4....maybe something new will come along in the next couple years.

[Randy M]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

Only point I can agree with you is in the coolant lines.

Everything else is called user error.

CL - recall, warranty and maintenance campaigned. While I haven't seen myself, I know of a few incidents in regular GT3s a no RS.
Diff - a lot more people winning about than people that can actually drive the car. Cars being driven at track at 5/10th for its winning owners thinking they have a performance flaw only because they read it on a forum.
Sold my car with 15K miles and a lot
Of those track miles, never replaced the diff and still extremely fast and capable. If it serves for anything.
Clutch - scary the amount of people that can't shift or drive a manual car properly. I'm another pure example. 15K miles stock clutch. No overrevs just proper heel and toe with rev matching and your clutch is running strong with its 3rd owner.

A lot of missinformation out there from people that think too much instead of driving. Don't believe in everything you read on the internet, instead get first hand experience.

The 'campaign' for the CL's was that they replaced some of the '10's within a certain VIN range then they give you a slip of paper that tells you that if you take your car to the track you better keep a log and replace them at your own cost when that mileage threshold has passed. In other words...no longer warrantied. That is crap imo. Oh yeah no warranty if you participate in track days either. Join the PCA, do a track day and lose your warranty lol...

The stock diffs regularly fail at low miles and have to be replaced with a Guard LSD if you want any longevity. Nobody replaces the stock diff with another stock diff.

The clutch parts in the GT3 is the weak link, straight from Jeff Gamroth's mouth.

They are great cars, no doubt about it but Porsche needs to stand by their customers and the cars they build. They weasel out of everything they can. They're the most profitable car company in the world, some of that profit comes from both changing the coverage and denying warranty whenever they can.

[m3evobr]

well, the campaign on center locks was only for GT3 cars and no RS of both years. In America there was a service bulletin update on the center lock and hubs (AKA slip of paper) that were mailed to GT3/RS owners, track mileage related, and only for america due to it's warranty and 'Sue everyone' policy.
No questions that if there is a flaw like I think it was with GT3s, it was taken care of.
Here in florida we had a group of about 10-11 GT3/RS that put more than 10K miles each one and most miles in Sebring which is the most abusive track in the Country by a really fat margin, some of the cars are now at 30-35K (RS) without any issues.
90% of the clutch failures were on RS cars, and 99% of them due to far from perfect driving. Also the initial clutch problem was replaced under warranty and I've seen from those drivers, a few transmission and clutches being replaced under warranty also.
LSD I say over and over again, not the best friction disks, but 99% of the people can't drive anyway and kept winning about the diff.
I never replaced mine and always drove the way it was.
I have to say besides not having any failure myself I've seen a few cars that had, and all taken care under warranty.
End of the day is the most dependable car to be used at track. Most people don't realize that these cars driven properly (rare occasions) are about 1-2 seconds off the pace of a 2005 996 Cup. That being said, you use a street car like a race car, and still want to maintain as a street car ???
There is something wrong right there.
Besides being a Porsche owner/driver I work on those cars and manufacture and sell part for them for a living, so I'm pretty aware with procedures, campaigns and service bulletins.
A lot of people were annoyed by Center locks, I personally could care less, once you learn the right procedure, it takes one 12-15 min without rush to change them, from jacking the car to have it down, but I can understand some people being challenged by it.