2016 M4 ZCP vs. 2015 M4 non-ZCP (from a guy who's owned both)

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

It truly is worth the wait. Make sure to let us know what you think when you get it!

I will do! I've been inspired by all these write-ups, although I myself am not much of a writer. "It's good - I like it" will probably be the extent of my capabilities.

I'm either picking it up in NJ or at PDC in SC, and then travelling back to Texas after visiting friends in NC, and possibly via Houston to pick up my parents from NZ. So in the first few days of having it, I will be covering between 1400 and 2000 miles over 4 or 5 days. Should give me a good idea of what the seats are like etc, although I can't compare to the current model - only to my 335i.

[W///]

Originally Posted by minn19

I guess chalk it up to life experience. You've never had an experience that everybody raved about and came away underwhelmed?

Sorry, I'm naturally suspicious when something gets hyped as night and day. Is ZCP better, I'm sure it is. Is it a completely different car like some are claiming. I have my doubts.



Reverse butthurt, I love it.

So people can't discuss things and have thoughts on the matter otherwise they are "butthurt."

I'd like to think I'm neutral since
1) I don't have an F8x
2) I'd almost rather CP was not this good so I could have spent the $5500

Obviously I've heard of people over hyping stuff. But I'd much rather give the OP the benefit of the doubt until I can personally test drive a CP, rather than listen to 15/16 owners that have most likely never even driven the new cars.

To me, it's all about perspective. He's extensively driven both, whereas you guys haven't. Can't really shoot down his credibility when you guys don't really have any either when it comes to CP.

Not to mention pretty much every review I've read says the same thing the OP is saying. Why would a magazine like EVO lie about the CP's improvement?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by W///

I'd like to think I'm neutral since
1) I don't have an F8x
2) I'd almost rather CP was not this good so I could have spent the $5500

Obviously I've heard of people over hyping stuff. But I'd much rather give the OP the benefit of the doubt until I can personally test drive a CP, rather than listen to 15/16 owners that have most likely never even driven the new cars.

To me, it's all about perspective. He's extensively driven both, whereas you guys haven't. Can't really shoot down his credibility when you guys don't really have any either when it comes to CP.

Not to mention pretty much every review I've read says the same thing the OP is saying. Why would a magazine like EVO lie about the CP's improvement?

One, I wasn't necessarily talking about his credibility with regards to his review.

Second, as I've said it a few times now, I'm sure it is improved, but the driving a different car comments seem over the top to me no matter who it is coming from. Just like when magazines trash the M3/4 in reviews. I look at those skeptically as well.

It seems there are two thoughts getting mixed up here. If I was ordering a new car would I order the CP package? Yes and I would replace the wheels immediately.

Would I trade in or sell my car to get a ZCP car at a decent sized financial loss, no. Unless I somehow miraculously was able to do it without said loss then why not. Who wouldn't?

The question I and I think others are asking/wondering, is it really that big of a difference between the two cars as some are claiming. I agree with you that it will be up to the individual buyer and what they think. If it is cool, more power to them.

[Uapilot7]

Great car. I am not a fan of the wheels at all but everything else including the seats is awesome. Great choice on the DCT! Having driven almost exclusively old school manuals for the last 30 years and now enjoying my '16 F80 DCT I will never own the old school butter churner "stick" variety again. The DCT is that good. Congrats on the awesome car.

[Der]

I think a lot of people are missing one MASSIVE factor. The OP jumped from a MY2015 car to a MY2016 ZCP.

The difference between non-ZCP 2015 and non-ZCP 2016 cars is quite significant. That includes revised dampers, software, traction control etc. When you add the ZCP in the mix, it is one hell of a change I believe.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by Der

I think a lot of people are missing one MASSIVE factor. The OP jumped from a MY2015 car to a MY2016 ZCP.

The difference between non-ZCP 2015 and non-ZCP 2016 cars is quite significant.

I may have missed the memo on this but other than the LCI on the F80, few cosmetic changes in the interior (chrome trim around the vents) and few changes on the options (HK Standard, etc.) what changed Would you consider this change significant?

[DE Urlaub]

I believe Der meant to say there was a big diff between a 2015 non-ZCP F82 and a 2016 ZCP F82 (in reference to the OPs previous and current F82s)

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by Der

The difference between non-ZCP 2015 and non-ZCP 2016 cars is quite significant.

(wanted to avoid another ZCP vs non-ZCP thread, but....)

I have to completely disagree with you here. In fact, there really hasn't been any real significant updates between the 2015 and 2016.....minor things, mostly cosmetic. Some state that *maybe* the exhaust sounds "different".

The first "significant" update that has been shown, at least anecdotally, to change the driving dynamics of the car has been the ZCP package, and "significant" is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. I haven't driven one, so I cannot say whether or not I would.

However to state that the changes between equally optioned non-zcp 2015 and 2016 cars are "significant" I think is a stretch.

[DE Urlaub]

See my post above Bluex. I could be wrong

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by Der

The difference between non-ZCP 2015 and non-ZCP 2016 cars is quite significant. That includes revised dampers, software, traction control etc. When you add the ZCP in the mix, it is one hell of a change I believe.

Originally Posted by DE Urlaub

See my post above Bluex. I could be wrong

I saw that....but I think he meant it as stated. See the bolded latter part of his statement. I believe he is stating that the difference between a non-zcp 2015 and a non-zcp 2016 is "significant" and that when you toss in the ZCP factor it goes to "one hell of a change".

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Look, no offense, but these statements, and others like that that you have made show that you are prone to extreme hyperbole, and thus, your review, to me, is, while not quite worthless, obviously extremely biased. It's apparent that you are trying to justify your decision, and you do so by over-exaggerating things about the non-ZCP.

I'm glad you like your new ZCP, and it is quite evident from other reviews that the ZCP is certainly a better car than the non-ZCP, but your review makes it sound like the the non-ZCP is a 1979 Ford Pinto, and the ZCP is a Ferrari. That just ain't true.

If I was buying an M today, I would certainly, without a doubt, check the ZCP box. But I won't be trading in my M4 for a ZCP M4, especially given the financial loss that would entail. The ZCP seems to be well worth the $5.5k cost. However, it is not worth the $5.5k plus $10-15k loss.

Enjoy your ZCP, and I will enjoy mine, and be about a tenth of second slower than you out on the track. I'm fine with that.

You have posted this a few times. Who is taking a 10-15k loss? Are you factoring in some of us have had our cars 2 years?

Leasers pay 10+k a YEAR with nothing to show for it at the end unless they buy out... I hope you don't lease

[JoeyBananas]

^ ignorant comment when it comes to leasing vs buying. When you buy a car and sell it, you lose out on the depreciation. Same thing when you lease only the numbers are in stone and you have very little liability

Rant off

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

No good deed goes unpunished.

I post an honest review about the differences and inevitably, the butt hurt go into defense mode.

I got a phenomenal deal and I couldn't care less what anybody thinks. Take it or leave it.

Not at all butthurt, but when you say things like the new ZCP sits like a 4x4 on its springs (really? It's as high as a typical Toyota Tacoma 4x4, or a Dodge Ram 4x4 off it's springs? The wheel well gap is 12+ inches? Really?) or the other things I quoted, it's obvious that you exagerate things.

Look, like I said, enjoy your ZCP, it's a great car, and I would, without a doubt, get a ZCP if I was buying an F8x today. As for your financial losses, or lack thereof, I doubt your claims, but that's neither here nor there. The average person would certainly lose $10-15k in depreciation were he/she to trade in his 2015 F8x for a 2016 F8x ZCP today. Maybe you didn't. Good on you.

[DD88]

Originally Posted by Bluex

I have to completely disagree with you here. In fact, there really hasn't been any real significant updates between the 2015 and 2016...

There are several threads about this on Bimmerpost but I cant find any right now, but take a look here:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=151683

Software can transform a car these days (Some claim that there are some hardware changes as well for MY16).

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Not at all butthurt, but when you say things like the new ZCP sits like a 4x4 on its springs (really? It's as high as a typical Toyota Tacoma 4x4, or a Dodge Ram 4x4 off it's springs? The wheel well gap is 12+ inches? Really?) or the other things I quoted, it's obvious that you exagerate things.

Look, like I said, enjoy your ZCP, it's a great car, and I would, without a doubt, get a ZCP if I was buying an F8x today. As for your financial losses, or lack thereof, I doubt your claims, but that's neither here nor there. The average person would certainly lose $10-15k in depreciation were he/she to trade in his 2015 F8x for a 2016 F8x ZCP today. Maybe you didn't. Good on you.

OK 10-15k but they have driven it 2 years.. What do you expect to pay for a car for 2 years of use? Sounds cheaper than a lease to me like I mentioned...

[Der]

Originally Posted by Bluex

I saw that....but I think he meant it as stated. See the bolded latter part of his statement. I believe he is stating that the difference between a non-zcp 2015 and a non-zcp 2016 is "significant" and that when you toss in the ZCP factor it goes to "one hell of a change".

Indeed. I am trying to be as clear as I can - the software on 2016 is significantly better. There is a huge topic on m3cutters about this – a number 2015 owners have installed/upgraded to the latest 2016 software and noticed a significant difference.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Der

Indeed. I am trying to be as clear as I can - the software on 2016 is significantly better. There is a huge topic on m3cutters about this – a number 2015 owners have installed/upgraded to the latest 2016 software and noticed a significant difference.

Didnt they also phantom upgrade the rear shocks on 16s at some point?

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by dmk08

You have posted this a few times. Who is taking a 10-15k loss? Are you factoring in some of us have had our cars 2 years?

Leasers pay 10+k a YEAR with nothing to show for it at the end unless they buy out... I hope you don't lease

I bought mine, thank you very much. I understand the difference between lease and buy, and for some lease makes more sense, others buying, more sense.

I picked up my 2015 in October of 2014, and although I got a great deal (BMW military overseas sales program), I would still take a significant financial hit were I to sell it today, and even more so were I to trade it in today. Perhaps the OP is a financial buying/selling genius. More power to him. I'm not, and I would lose money. According to KBB, if I sold to a private party, I would lose about $5k, and if I sold to a dealer, I would lose about $10k. That's not including the cost of the ZCP, nor including the likely cost of returning some things to stock which would be necessary for trading in to a dealer (ECU flash, removal of DPs, etc...)

Again, the ZCP is undoubtedly better than the non-ZCP, but its not a Ferrari to Ford Pinto comparison, as the OP makes it out to be.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

I bought mine, thank you very much. I understand the difference between lease and buy, and for some lease makes more sense, others buying, more sense.

I picked up my 2015 in October of 2014, and although I got a great deal (BMW military overseas sales program), I would still take a significant financial hit were I to sell it today, and even more so were I to trade it in today. Perhaps the OP is a financial buying/selling genius. More power to him. I'm not, and I would lose money. According to KBB, if I sold to a private party, I would lose about $5k, and if I sold to a dealer, I would lose about $10k. That's not including the cost of the ZCP, nor including the likely cost of returning some things to stock which would be necessary for trading in to a dealer (ECU flash, removal of DPs, etc...)

Again, the ZCP is undoubtedly better than the non-ZCP, but its not a Ferrari to Ford Pinto comparison, as the OP makes it out to be.

You think you can get 5k more private party then trade? I doubt that.

My trade value is 61k and people on here balk at a 64k asking...

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

I bought mine, thank you very much. I understand the difference between lease and buy, and for some lease makes more sense, others buying, more sense.

I picked up my 2015 in October of 2014, and although I got a great deal (BMW military overseas sales program), I would still take a significant financial hit were I to sell it today, and even more so were I to trade it in today. Perhaps the OP is a financial buying/selling genius. More power to him. I'm not, and I would lose money. According to KBB, if I sold to a private party, I would lose about $5k, and if I sold to a dealer, I would lose about $10k. That's not including the cost of the ZCP, nor including the likely cost of returning some things to stock which would be necessary for trading in to a dealer (ECU flash, removal of DPs, etc...)

Again, the ZCP is undoubtedly better than the non-ZCP, but its not a Ferrari to Ford Pinto comparison, as the OP makes it out to be.

The strawman argument is strong with this one man. Especially the last paragraph.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

The strawman argument is strong with this one man. Especially the last paragraph.

Sure, whatever. If you think so. Go drive your Ferrari (with the 12" wheel gap) and I will drive my Pinto.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Sure, whatever. If you think so. Go drive your Ferrari (with the 12" wheel gap) and I will drive my Pinto.

I'm pretty sure he can fix his wheel gap just like you did.

Telling other adults how to spend their hard earned money generally doesn't go over well.