Alpina B3/B4 Biturbo vs. M3/M4

[Nordkeyz73]

I saw this interesting article on Opposite lock yesterday and have no idea if it's a repost.

http://jalopnik.com/is-the-alpina-b3...ler-1222550959

Judging by the close relationship between BMW and Alpina, I wouldn't think BMW would allow them to release their new Biturbo without knowing the new M3/M4 possessed more impressive figures.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

[paddy335]

Very good point! So if the B3 is quoted at 4.2 seconds to 100kmh, the M3/4 will logically be faster. Or so you would assume.

Although potentially BMW will distance themselves from that logic cos Alpina kind of target rich grandads.

[Nordkeyz73]

Yeah! Even though Alpina target a different market, BMW would likely not let performance figures of their M cars be outdone by luxury cruisers. For example, when the E39 was produced, the B10 was great but just a hair under the performance of the M5. And this trend follows most (if not all) generations of bimmer models. This just makes me confident that whatever Power/Torque figures the M3/M4 deliver, it's times will be better

[RMB]

I would think the M4 would be able to outperform the Alpina product. I am thinking they will be able to achieve better performance through weight savings as opposed to more power to the engine.

[W12x]

Different target market IMO, the B3/B4 is more of a niche market performance vehicle, while the M3/M4 will appeal to the mass. And the price tag on the B3/B4 may not look so pretty when compared to the M3/M4.

[Nordkeyz73]

Yes, that's very true. Alpina's are definitely not "cheap".
And, I also agree that M division is about the entire dynamic of the vehicle, not simply adding more power. Can't wait till the final product comes out, hopefully my next Bimmer

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73

Judging by the close relationship between BMW and Alpina, I wouldn't think BMW would allow them to release their new Biturbo without knowing the new M3/M4 possessed more impressive figures.

Yes, I'm sure they have an understanding, but keep in mind that the M5/M6 only make about 20hp more than the B5/B6. That's less than 4%.

[solstice]

At a recent and fantastic BMW track event I attended the Alpina B7 was part of the cars we drove. It has impressive acceleration under full boost but the throttle/turbo lag is pretty terrible off -> on throttle, the steering is slow and it does IMO not handle sharper than a 750i and is nowhere close an M5/M6 in throttle response. It was my first experience with an Alpina and it did nothing to further my interrest in the Alpina lineup. For my preferences there is no contest between Ms and Alpinas.

[Nordkeyz73]

Interesting, I guess despite the close power figures the proof really is in the driving.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Nordkeyz73

Interesting, I guess despite the close power figures the proof really is in the driving.

Yes after just having driven the 750iL and thought that car handled insanely well for it's size and luxury ( it could keep up with 6 series cars ) I was pumped to try the Alpina but it was a bit of an anti-climax to be honest, mainly due to the throttle lag which was IMO bad enough to be a problem on the track. Now on the open road I'm sure it is a fantastic high speed cruiser or as an uber fast luxury commuter car but as an enthusiast drive it fell short for my preferences. I was really, really impressed with the 750 though, a car of that size and weight should not handle like that and be fun on a track. Naturally though, not enough to make me go 7 series shopping but nevertheless very impressive.

[mkoesel]

No surprise the M5 had better throttle characteristics than the B7. Alpina uses a standard N63Tu with larger turbos for the B5/B6/B7, while the M5/M6 obviously have the S63Tu with dual scroll turbos and the trick manifold. We should expect similar outcome for the M3/M4 vs. the B3/B4.

[Frank SF]

This is a very interesting thread and very valid question.

In case my financial status would revert to pre-crisis conditions, this would be a dilemma I would have in respect of a future car, i.e. BMW M3 or BMW B3 Bi-Turbo or maybe even BMW D3 Bi-Turbo.

The B3 Bi-Turbo has several advantages, i.e. the fact that is more understated as look but kind of special and exotic, the more refined interior, the suspension more compliant for road use, the fact that is also available as xDrive (important for me) and as touring. Apparently, as far as I understand also from Chris Harris movie, the prices for the B3 Bi-Turbo are not as stratospheric anymore, as it costs slighly more than a 335i similarly loaded.

On another side, the M3 is part of the M line-up, which was a dream of my adolescence in terms of cars. Probably it is more sporty on the road (engine, transmission, suspension, the way it holds the road) but it is only Saloon, only RWD and a little bit too flashy.

Some discussions and forums also introduce in discussion the new D3 Bi-Turbo with 350 CP, apparently it is very very fast, close to B3 figures and performances, but with surprisingly low consumption figures. Generally I tend to be a fan of unleaded, not enjoying diesel too much, but some recent ride in a couple of V6 and L6 diesels 3.0 kind of changed my mind, in the sense of enjoying the performance and still having decent consumption (an E350 CDI Coupe took 10.6 liters/100 km consumption where my 325xi E90 with 3.0 unleaded would have taken 15 liters/100 km).

I am thinking that a really nice combo would be Alpina B3 Bi-Turbo xDrive (maybe Touring) and Alpina XD3 (the SUV based on X3).

[Frank SF]

Probably for a sole car (daily driver plus some fun) the D3 would be the optimum choice nowadays, but if money allows, a B3 for me and for fun and an XD3 for wife, holiday, mountain etc. would be ideal.