BPM
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in | Oil & Fluids | Servicing | TSB | Recalls

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-07-2015, 08:43 AM   #45
chillindrdude
Lieutenant Colonel
chillindrdude's Avatar
1005
Rep
1,699
Posts

Drives: anything with 4 wheels
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (1)

subscribed for updates...

this is disappointing.
__________________
My Trackable Street Car
2016 Porsche GT4 -- 981
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2015, 11:01 AM   #46
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
This has to be specific to certain cars.. mine is sideways near daily with no trouble other than a white car shows tire debris quickly.
Not really the same thing. Mine only does it on the track. Wondering if heat has something to do with it if those sensors go wacky if they are close enough to the rotor assembly?

As gthal said please take your car in and get the codes pulled. At least it will be documented for when it reoccurs.
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2015, 11:59 AM   #47
Roychimac
Second Lieutenant
Roychimac's Avatar
Canada
93
Rep
236
Posts

Drives: 15 YMB F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (1)

I just dropped mine at service today and the faults read were vertical acceleration sensors and "front of car height too low". I know the car isn't too low cuz we only dropped it .75 in the front which is the same as what we dropped in the rear with my KW HAS kit.

They're going to replace the 2 sensors up front first to see if it fixes it and then do a re-initialization.

I'll keep you guys informed.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2015, 12:57 PM   #48
M3SSY
Second Lieutenant
168
Rep
252
Posts

Drives: E30 M3 / F80 M3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SW/FL

iTrader: (0)

I wonder if you are creating slip angles greater than the car can calculate for and you're getting some sort of variable over run or similar...
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2015, 02:15 PM   #49
brian99997
Second Lieutenant
37
Rep
202
Posts

Drives: slowly
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Not really the same thing. Mine only does it on the track. Wondering if heat has something to do with it if those sensors go wacky if they are close enough to the rotor assembly?
Lots of track time although my tires don't allow for much slip angle and I haven't fully spun the car yet so going back to Jeremey Clarkson, he must have been resetting something :P
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2015, 08:02 PM   #50
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roychimac View Post
I just dropped mine at service today and the faults read were vertical acceleration sensors and "front of car height too low". I know the car isn't too low cuz we only dropped it .75 in the front which is the same as what we dropped in the rear with my KW HAS kit.

They're going to replace the 2 sensors up front first to see if it fixes it and then do a re-initialization.

I'll keep you guys informed.
Thanks, keep us posted. Currently my car has 265/35/19 front tire on stock springs so actually higher than normal and still got the malfunction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian99997 View Post
Lots of track time although my tires don't allow for much slip angle and I haven't fully spun the car yet so going back to Jeremey Clarkson, he must have been resetting something :P
Thought you were talking about street driving. What tires are you using?
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2015, 09:48 PM   #51
M3NetNerd
Private First Class
12
Rep
124
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: South East

iTrader: (0)

Just to document I am running 275/35/18 square for tires on the track.
Appreciate 1
      05-10-2015, 02:52 AM   #52
Railgun
Colonel
Railgun's Avatar
United Kingdom
892
Rep
2,989
Posts

Drives: FD, CBR600RR, F82
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 60606 --> SE3 --> ME14

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 SMB M4  [0.00]
1993 Mazda RX-7  [0.00]
2007 Honda CBR600RR  [0.00]
So, an FYI, there were a bunch of M3/4s on track at Brands Hatch this past week with a local dealership that had setup a track day. Not one that I'm aware of had any issues relating to this. There were also three demos, M3 and M4 coupe and vert (among other Ms) that were being driven by Tom Chilton, and other than giving them a break every 30 min or so, didn't have any reported issues either.

The only issue mentioned, by Tom, was that even with DSC disabled, it still eventually would reel things in if you get too extreme.

It could be a larger issue, but it also may simply be specific to you car. It happens sometimes unfortunately.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2015, 05:01 AM   #53
135pr
New Member
9
Rep
21
Posts

Drives: 135
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Puerto Rico

iTrader: (0)

My m4 have h&r sport suspension, no adaptive suspension on stock tires and when a go to the drag track I get the message. "Drivetrain malfunction". I stop the car, turn off and the code was cleared.

I will go to services department and let you know what happens.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2015, 10:26 AM   #54
135pr
New Member
9
Rep
21
Posts

Drives: 135
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Puerto Rico

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by darge82
Quote:
Originally Posted by 135pr View Post
My m4 have h&r sport suspension, no adaptive suspension on stock tires and when a go to the drag track I get the message. "Drivetrain malfunction". I stop the car, turn off and the code was cleared.

I will go to services department and let you know what happens.
Is your car bone stock or tuned? Drivetrain malfunction is different then a Chassis malfunction. Drivetrain malfunction is more related to engine/engine electronics and transmission. Chassis malfunction is related to suspension and stability stuff.
Thanks for the info. My car have JB4 and downpipe.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2015, 01:20 PM   #55
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
So, an FYI, there were a bunch of M3/4s on track at Brands Hatch this past week with a local dealership that had setup a track day. Not one that I'm aware of had any issues relating to this. There were also three demos, M3 and M4 coupe and vert (among other Ms) that were being driven by Tom Chilton, and other than giving them a break every 30 min or so, didn't have any reported issues either.

The only issue mentioned, by Tom, was that even with DSC disabled, it still eventually would reel things in if you get too extreme.

It could be a larger issue, but it also may simply be specific to you car. It happens sometimes unfortunately.
Good to note. Wonder if they were running stock pads and tires though? My current theory is that it's heat related in regards to the proximity of the front strut sensors. Possibly the R-comps are Carbotech XP12 pads are generating enough heat through the rotor/hub to make the sensors fail? My front calipers turned green from heat and it's also quite warm here in Phoenix.

Nevertheless, if all DSC is turned off it should never intervene. Not understanding that for Tom, unless you mean he was running MDM (Euro?). The U.S. MDM mode is too intrusive to be used on the track, so I runn with everything completely off.

I know another member that runs Carbotechs, but I believe he was smart enough to disconnect the EDC sensors for his track day. This may be the temporary solution until the problem is figured out definitively.
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2015, 07:48 PM   #56
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1826
Rep
5,687
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Good to note. Wonder if they were running stock pads and tires though? My current theory is that it's heat related in regards to the proximity of the front strut sensors. Possibly the R-comps are Carbotech XP12 pads are generating enough heat through the rotor/hub to make the sensors fail? My front calipers turned green from heat and it's also quite warm here in Phoenix.

Nevertheless, if all DSC is turned off it should never intervene. Not understanding that for Tom, unless you mean he was running MDM (Euro?). The U.S. MDM mode is too intrusive to be used on the track, so I runn with everything completely off.

I know another member that runs Carbotechs, but I believe he was smart enough to disconnect the EDC sensors for his track day. This may be the temporary solution until the problem is figured out definitively.
Is there something about the Carbotech pads that causes more heat to transfer into the rotor/hub?
__________________
2018 340i | Mineral Gray | Current DD | C8 mid-engine Corvette to come next year
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 | 1996 E36 M3 (track car)
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2015, 10:54 PM   #57
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Is there something about the Carbotech pads that causes more heat to transfer into the rotor/hub?
They can tolerate much higher heat overall (than stock pads) so just theorizing that maybe the heat of the wheel assembly is somehow messing with the sensors? My front rotors would sometimes be billowing out surprisingly heavy looking smoke after a session with the carbotechs, not just light smoke like I've seen with other cars I've tracked.

I'm not sure where these sensors are? If they're at the top of the strut, seems that they should be far enough away to not be affected by the heat? Also, the other member that had this issue on track was at an autocross, so don't think his rotors would've gotten that hot with the short session? I guess I'm just grasping at straws while my M4 sits at the dealer for the third time for this.

Hopefully they've got some better ideas than I do!
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 12:17 AM   #58
smh_amg_m4gts
Faster on 2wheels
smh_amg_m4gts's Avatar
United_States
110
Rep
382
Posts

Drives: M4GTS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Silicon Valley

iTrader: (0)

Planning to take my M3 to Laguna Seca in June. No mods. Stay tuned.
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 12:47 AM   #59
smh_amg_m4gts
Faster on 2wheels
smh_amg_m4gts's Avatar
United_States
110
Rep
382
Posts

Drives: M4GTS
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Silicon Valley

iTrader: (0)

Sorry if I missed this, but are folks seeing this issue with DCTs or Manual transmission?
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 02:07 AM   #60
Railgun
Colonel
Railgun's Avatar
United Kingdom
892
Rep
2,989
Posts

Drives: FD, CBR600RR, F82
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 60606 --> SE3 --> ME14

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 SMB M4  [0.00]
1993 Mazda RX-7  [0.00]
2007 Honda CBR600RR  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Good to note. Wonder if they were running stock pads and tires though? My current theory is that it's heat related in regards to the proximity of the front strut sensors. Possibly the R-comps are Carbotech XP12 pads are generating enough heat through the rotor/hub to make the sensors fail? My front calipers turned green from heat and it's also quite warm here in Phoenix.

Nevertheless, if all DSC is turned off it should never intervene. Not understanding that for Tom, unless you mean he was running MDM (Euro?). The U.S. MDM mode is too intrusive to be used on the track, so I runn with everything completely off.
I had explicitly asked that. DSC was off. Not MDM mode. And they were running standard brakes with stock pads, no CCBs.
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 09:30 AM   #61
FTS
2015 DE Championship Contender
FTS's Avatar
United_States
305
Rep
1,118
Posts

Drives: F82
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
They can tolerate much higher heat overall (than stock pads) so just theorizing that maybe the heat of the wheel assembly is somehow messing with the sensors?

I'm not sure where these sensors are? If they're at the top of the strut, seems that they should be far enough away to not be affected by the heat?
I highly doubt heat from brake system has anything to do with this, but obviously anything is possible at the end. The total heat absorption capacity from pad to pad won't change if they are the same thickness.

The sensors are up top btw, if you lift the rubber covers from the strut tops, you'll see the them, the harness is exposed outside of the covers also.
__________________
Cheers!
Most fun way to learn to drive your ///M:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1086323
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 12:22 PM   #62
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by stunnaM3 View Post
Sorry if I missed this, but are folks seeing this issue with DCTs or Manual transmission?
Could happen to either, not associated with the driveline, but the chassis / EDC system supposedly. Only been 2 cars on track that have done it that we know of. A few others claimed chassis malfunction after doing spring swaps. Not sure if related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
I had explicitly asked that. DSC was off. Not MDM mode. And they were running standard brakes with stock pads, no CCBs.
Interesting, not sure what was intervening then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I highly doubt heat from brake system has anything to do with this, but obviously anything is possible at the end. The total heat absorption capacity from pad to pad won't change if they are the same thickness.

The sensors are up top btw, if you lift the rubber covers from the strut tops, you'll see the them, the harness is exposed outside of the covers also.
Ok, seems implausible heat is the issue. Should be easy enough to disconnect though. Can't check for myself since I don't have my car. Radio silence from dealer.
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2015, 10:04 PM   #63
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Got the call that my car was done. They ended up replacing the right front strut and right front sensor again. Speaking with the SA when I picked it up, he said they replaced it, because that's what engineering wanted them to do. The faults that the sensor is throwing are "plausibility faults" which, when I inquired, means that "they don't know why its throwing the faults". Their latest theory is that the track tires somehow send the strut/sensor out of "bounds", but when he continued on to say "maybe they skip/skid more than OEM tires" I dismissed that theory since the R888 are much stickier actually.

I don't want to sound too critical of the dealership. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to say "we don't know what is wrong" which that is basically what they are doing for now. The dealership has put in a lot of effort trying to figure out what exactly the issue is, but unfortunately it seems to be above their knowledge base to found the answer. A "PUMA" case has been started and they still are encouraging me to track the car more so that it might help them find an answer. Even mentioned maybe having a field engineer go with me to the track, but surely blowing smoke on that.

Anyway, happy to have my car back. I might test it at an early morning test and tune on June 20th, but really nothing much going on here in Phoenix for the summer with the heat.

Name:  001.JPG
Views: 1414
Size:  274.1 KB
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889

Last edited by MaynardZed; 05-11-2015 at 10:30 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-12-2015, 11:29 AM   #64
JoeFromPA
Colonel
1430
Rep
2,844
Posts

Drives: '15 AW M3 6MT Stripper
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

So I'm noticing that in the three instances reported in this thread we have:

1. Non-stock tire sizes + track tires
2. Non-stock tire sizes
3. Lowered ride height

And on the other hand we have hundreds of stock m3s being tossed around tracks for almost a year now with no related stories that I know of...
Appreciate 0
      05-12-2015, 11:54 AM   #65
MatthewDavid
Captain
113
Rep
727
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4 BSM/CCBs
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [0.00]
2012 E92 M3 ZCP  [0.00]
2008 E92 M3  [4.50]
Seemingly related perhaps have any of you also noticed how weak a constitution the cruise control now has in corners? I used to take a corner on my commute at 75 mph in my E92 and the F82 now wants to drop 10-15 mph. It's weird how sensitive this car is to roll. Obviously you wouldn't use cruise at the track but it is indicative to how sensitive the stability sensors seem to be for this car.
Appreciate 0
      05-12-2015, 03:24 PM   #66
MaynardZed
Lieutenant Colonel
MaynardZed's Avatar
United_States
1023
Rep
1,717
Posts

Drives: wife crazy
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
So I'm noticing that in the three instances reported in this thread we have:

1. Non-stock tire sizes + track tires
2. Non-stock tire sizes
3. Lowered ride height

And on the other hand we have hundreds of stock m3s being tossed around tracks for almost a year now with no related stories that I know of...
Yes, hopefully isolated cases. Seems as if they are pointing towards my track tires as the culprit, but honestly I think they are just reaching for answers there. They also asked if I left the ignition on when I trailered my car to the track. I just drive the M4 to the track, of course.

BTW, I think very few F8X have been tossed around the track extensively with the stock Michelin PSS. They have almost universally been deemed as a poor track day tire by anyone above beginner level.
__________________
Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT
WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352
Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT
WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889

Last edited by MaynardZed; 05-12-2015 at 03:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST