Autotalent
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-16-2019, 12:22 PM   #1
Absurdium
First Lieutenant
Canada
138
Rep
308
Posts

Drives: F82 TB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

M4 ZCP vs. 981 Cayman S Track Test - Mosport GP



Recently did a track day with my buddy and his 981 Cayman S. We ended up with similar best laps of the day but the two cars make up for time in completely different ways. I was a bit conservative into 2, 3, and braked early for 8 so more time can definitely be found. Both cars are on the same tires, Nt-01 and both are relatively stock except for slight mods such as camber plates and monoballs for his cayman. Just wanted to share this real life track comparison that may be more relevant to most of us rather than the exotics comparisons we see so frequently!

Mod list:
2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
-Ground control camber plates
-K/N filter
-Apex Sm-10 wheels
-275/305 Nitto Nt-01
-Schroth quickfit harness
-PFC-08 pads
-Endless RF650

2014 Cayman S (981) 6MT
-Monoball front/rear
-solid bushings
-Gt3 control arms
-Rays TE37
-245/275 Nitto Nt-01
-Ferodos Ds1.11
-girodisc rotors
-Castrol SRF
-Slight tune for midrange torque; no peak power increase
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2019, 02:20 PM   #2
nicknaz
Major General
nicknaz's Avatar
United_States
2485
Rep
9,659
Posts

Drives: F31 330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Nice vid! Thanks for sharing!
Appreciate 1
Absurdium138.00

      07-17-2019, 12:19 AM   #3
sausage4
Private
40
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: MW M4
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Nice vid,

I wonder where SYT_Shadow is
Appreciate 1
Absurdium138.00

      07-17-2019, 07:02 AM   #4
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3382
Rep
5,226
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Nice vid,

I wonder where SYT_Shadow is
I saw the thread... not sure what you want me to comment. Stop trolling.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 09:33 AM   #5
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Nice vid,

I wonder where SYT_Shadow is
LOL. Just imagine if it wasn’t one of Porsche’s slowest cars compared to One of BMWs fastest. And just proves the point that Porsche at a huge power to weight disadvantage is faster in mags and regular drivers. Imagine if they’d done 10, 20 or more laps and the gap that would yield.

Last edited by Funf6cyl; 07-17-2019 at 09:55 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 09:46 AM   #6
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3382
Rep
5,226
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Either of you have permanent invites to the Glen... looking forward to running into you
Appreciate 1
minn195402.50

      07-17-2019, 10:26 AM   #7
Absurdium
First Lieutenant
Canada
138
Rep
308
Posts

Drives: F82 TB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Nice vid,

I wonder where SYT_Shadow is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Nice vid,

I wonder where SYT_Shadow is
LOL. Just imagine if it wasn't one of Porsche's slowest cars compared to One of BMWs fastest. And just proves the point that Porsche at a huge power to weight disadvantage is faster in mags and regular drivers. Imagine if they'd done 10, 20 or more laps and the gap that would yield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Either of you have permanent invites to the Glen... looking forward to running into you

I'm not sure what the context here is but I will say I am confident that the M4 should be about 1 second faster than the 981 Cayman S on this track. You can clearly see that I lifted well before the crest at the back straight and went into 2 and 3 conservatively. Problem with the M4 is that its operating window is tighter than the cayman in stock form. You only have maybe 2-3 laps where tires and brakes are at optimal temperature for a hotlap as it's a heavy car. It's not an easy car to drive fast. This combined with the cayman's ability to allow the driver extract most of it's performance easily converts to the result you guys see.

Funf6cyl I'm not sure about your comment about the gap if we had more laps. The gap would not widen and actually reverse in my opinion. My virtual best was a 1:32:xx where as he had a virtual best of 1:34:xx, only marginally lower than his best lap of the day. I'm sure he can crack into the 1:33:xx with more seat time but I'm expecting the M4 to dip into the 1:32:xx and potentially 1:31:xx. Both performs well on the track but it's really a different style between the two cars. However at a tighter track though, the cayman takes it as the problem with operating window is further amplified. I would have a very difficult time staying with him on a technical track as he has the advantage in both entry speed, apex speed, and even exit as he can get on the gas earlier. All of this is indeed impressive when you consider the cayman has an open diff; really speaks to how good the cayman chassis is. However the M4 is my daily driver thus my alignment settings and hardware cannot be as aggressive as his. All things considered the M4 does well against purebred sportscars like the cayman you see here.
Appreciate 1
minn195402.50

      07-17-2019, 11:55 AM   #8
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3382
Rep
5,226
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
I'm not sure what the context here is but I will say I am confident that the M4 should be about 1 second faster than the 981 Cayman S on this track. You can clearly see that I lifted well before the crest at the back straight and went into 2 and 3 conservatively. Problem with the M4 is that its operating window is tighter than the cayman in stock form. You only have maybe 2-3 laps where tires and brakes are at optimal temperature for a hotlap as it's a heavy car. It's not an easy car to drive fast. This combined with the cayman's ability to allow the driver extract most of it's performance easily converts to the result you guys see.

I'm not sure about your comment about the gap if we had more laps. The gap would not widen and actually reverse in my opinion. My virtual best was a 1:32:xx where as he had a virtual best of 1:34:xx, only marginally lower than his best lap of the day. I'm sure he can crack into the 1:33:xx with more seat time but I'm expecting the M4 to dip into the 1:32:xx and potentially 1:31:xx. Both performs well on the track but it's really a different style between the two cars. However at a tighter track though, the cayman takes it as the problem with operating window is further amplified. I would have a very difficult time staying with him on a technical track as he has the advantage in both entry speed, apex speed, and even exit as he can get on the gas earlier. All of this is indeed impressive when you consider the cayman has an open diff; really speaks to how good the cayman chassis is. However the M4 is my daily driver thus my alignment settings and hardware cannot be as aggressive as his. All things considered the M4 does well against purebred sportscars like the cayman you see here.
Two trolls are crapping on your thread for no reason, so I apologize for responding to them


The M4 is very fast in almost stock form, keep pushing and don't worry about yours not being a 'dedicated sports car'. I haven't been to Mosport as it's quite far and not in the 'must see' track list, but go to one of the bigger tracks and your car will shine.
Appreciate 1
Absurdium138.00

      07-17-2019, 12:22 PM   #9
Absurdium
First Lieutenant
Canada
138
Rep
308
Posts

Drives: F82 TB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
I'm not sure what the context here is but I will say I am confident that the M4 should be about 1 second faster than the 981 Cayman S on this track. You can clearly see that I lifted well before the crest at the back straight and went into 2 and 3 conservatively. Problem with the M4 is that its operating window is tighter than the cayman in stock form. You only have maybe 2-3 laps where tires and brakes are at optimal temperature for a hotlap as it's a heavy car. It's not an easy car to drive fast. This combined with the cayman's ability to allow the driver extract most of it's performance easily converts to the result you guys see.

I'm not sure about your comment about the gap if we had more laps. The gap would not widen and actually reverse in my opinion. My virtual best was a 1:32:xx where as he had a virtual best of 1:34:xx, only marginally lower than his best lap of the day. I'm sure he can crack into the 1:33:xx with more seat time but I'm expecting the M4 to dip into the 1:32:xx and potentially 1:31:xx. Both performs well on the track but it's really a different style between the two cars. However at a tighter track though, the cayman takes it as the problem with operating window is further amplified. I would have a very difficult time staying with him on a technical track as he has the advantage in both entry speed, apex speed, and even exit as he can get on the gas earlier. All of this is indeed impressive when you consider the cayman has an open diff; really speaks to how good the cayman chassis is. However the M4 is my daily driver thus my alignment settings and hardware cannot be as aggressive as his. All things considered the M4 does well against purebred sportscars like the cayman you see here.
Two trolls are crapping on your thread for no reason, so I apologize for responding to them


The M4 is very fast in almost stock form, keep pushing and don't worry about yours not being a 'dedicated sports car'. I haven't been to Mosport as it's quite far and not in the 'must see' track list, but go to one of the bigger tracks and your car will shine.
Haha all good. I didn't take their comments as negative comments either. Both brands are good in their own way so it's just good to celebrate the differences.

Mosport GP is actually a very fast and large track! But I was definitely surprised that the cayman did as well as it did. Keep in mind that me and my friend here are doing some decently fast laps. Both of us passed GT4s, 997 GT3, 996 turbo and plenty of vettes so the pace here is pretty good. I personally really like the M4 as a package and once it's off warranty, I have some serious upgrades planned for it . The friend that drove the cayman is actually getting a 718 Gt4 next year so I'm super excited for him. However I told him once I can mod my car after warranty, I bet I can make the M4 faster than his GT4 with an intact interior and no aero; I'm very confident on this bet because this car can definitely turn some serious times with better hardware
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow3382.00

      07-17-2019, 05:06 PM   #10
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Either of you have permanent invites to the Glen... looking forward to running into you
Sure, set it up. Only caveats being that the car needs to be stock other than both cars running the same tires. But stock brakes, stock pads, stock power minimum of 20 laps. I no longer have my 991.2S or 718 GTS but have a new 991.2 Carrera T. If not, a friend of mine has a GT3 cup he might be willing to throw into the comparison.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 05:18 PM   #11
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3382
Rep
5,226
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Sure, set it up. Only caveats being that the car needs to be stock other than both cars running the same tires. But stock brakes, stock pads, stock power minimum of 20 laps. I no longer have my 991.2S or 718 GTS but have a new 991.2 Carrera T. If not, a friend of mine has a GT3 cup he might be willing to throw into the comparison.
No one tracks stock cars. Don't be ridiculous

Lol @ the Cup car. Yeah, because that's what you need to beat a street M3 that drove in to the event, an actual race car. Typical Porsche garbage, you can't drive to save your life but your friend has a Cup and your friend has that and blahblahblah.

Bring your car, mod whatever you want, use whatever tire you want. It just has to be you and your car.
Appreciate 1
      07-17-2019, 05:52 PM   #12
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
No one tracks stock cars. Don't be ridiculous

Lol @ the Cup car. Yeah, because that's what you need to beat a street M3 that drove in to the event, an actual race car. Typical Porsche garbage, you can't drive to save your life but your friend has a Cup and your friend has that and blahblahblah.

Bring your car, mod whatever you want, use whatever tire you want. It just has to be you and your car.
LOL right over your head - that was hyperbole - though I have a friend who does track his and is quite fast. He competed for years in the Koni series and did quite well.
Well, sounds like you want to run a highly modded car (with likely 2x the hp) vs a stock one which is what you’d need to beat a stock street 911. And that’s the only way you’d going to with a good driver. You modify bc you have to in order to run decent times and have your car hold up decently.

If you’re willing to run similar spec cars I’m in, but I now know you won’t because you’d have little to no chance of beating me.

Last edited by Funf6cyl; 07-17-2019 at 06:22 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 06:06 PM   #13
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3382
Rep
5,226
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
LOL right over your head - that was hyperbole - though I have a friend who does track his and is quite fast.
Well, sounds like you want to run a highly modded car (with likely 2x the hp) vs a stock one which is what you’d need to beat a stock street 911. And that’s the only way you’d going to with a good driver. You modify bc you have to in order to run decent times and have your car hold up decently.

If you’re willing to run similar spec cars I’m in, but I now know you won’t because you’d have little to no chance of beating me.
I'm sure we'll never meet, but consider that there is no way to check a car is 'stock'. Will you check for camber plates? Dismount pads? Check the ECU somehow?

You can bring whatever you want and mod all you want. It won't make a difference
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 06:21 PM   #14
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I'm sure we'll never meet, but consider that there is no way to check a car is 'stock'. Will you check for camber plates? Dismount pads? Check the ECU somehow?

You can bring whatever you want and mod all you want. It won't make a difference
I have a different way. Pocono Raceway, I have a friend who is willing to let you drive his stock f80 M3 vs my 991.2T. This will guarantee both stock cars. I know that won’t be satisfactory bc your thing is to have a wildly unfair competition when you couldn’t win straight up.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 06:49 PM   #15
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
2572
Rep
5,720
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

No idea what the genesis of this argument is - but shouldn't a Carrera T, a sports car with a cost north of $100k, beat an M3 around a track quite easily? I would sure think so.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 07:04 PM   #16
sausage4
Private
40
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: MW M4
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
No idea what the genesis of this argument is - but shouldn't a Carrera T, a sports car with a cost north of $100k, beat an M3 around a track quite easily? I would sure think so.
I totally agree ,m3 and 911 ( esps gt3/rs) are different cars and different category. I’m not knocking the m4/m3 at all ,they’re great cars for their segment.

What I have a problem with is SYT_Shadow claiming that he embarrassed gt3\rs on tracks ,and that if a gt3 was faster than an m3 ,he would’ve gotten one. I’m just calling him out on it ,and in return he’s calling me a fanboy.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 07:32 PM   #17
gatorfast
Major General
gatorfast's Avatar
United_States
2572
Rep
5,720
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
No idea what the genesis of this argument is - but shouldn't a Carrera T, a sports car with a cost north of $100k, beat an M3 around a track quite easily? I would sure think so.
I totally agree ,m3 and 911 ( esps gt3/rs) are different cars and different category. I'm not knocking the m4/m3 at all ,they're great cars for their segment.

What I have a problem with is SYT_Shadow claiming that he embarrassed gt3\rs on tracks ,and that if a gt3 was faster than an m3 ,he would've gotten one. I'm just calling him out on it ,and in return he's calling me a fanboy.
Yea I'm pretty sure there are many data points of an M3 and a gt3 running on the same track with the gt3 turning in considerably quicker times (as it should).
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 07:50 PM   #18
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
No idea what the genesis of this argument is - but shouldn't a Carrera T, a sports car with a cost north of $100k, beat an M3 around a track quite easily? I would sure think so.
Well, an M4 GTS is a purpose built track day special and is more expensive than a Carrera S (which is a luxury GT car) and while the GTS has cup tires (not to mention an 80 hp and 80 tq advantage) and the 911 just summer tires the 911 is easily faster on track.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2019, 09:36 PM   #19
Absurdium
First Lieutenant
Canada
138
Rep
308
Posts

Drives: F82 TB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
No idea what the genesis of this argument is - but shouldn't a Carrera T, a sports car with a cost north of $100k, beat an M3 around a track quite easily? I would sure think so.
Well, an M4 GTS is a purpose built track day special and is more expensive than a Carrera S (which is a luxury GT car) and while the GTS has cup tires (not to mention an 80 hp and 80 tq advantage) and the 911 just summer tires the 911 is easily faster on track.
I feel like it's all a matter of perspective. You can also say the m4 gts is a base luxury car with a wing on it while the 911 C2S is a purebred sportscar. If we're strictly talking about laptimes as well, 992 isn't necessarily "easily" faster.

I'm not sure why you guys have such a hard argument when both cars are great in their own ways. Does a F80 M3 beat a GT3 on track? Absolutely not. Sure you can modify it to be faster than the GT3 but then you can further modify the GT3 to be even quicker still. The argument becomes moot very quickly.

Again 911 and any porsches are great cars; my video proves that. However you guys need to understand how good the F8X platform is as well. 2-3 seconds faster than the equivalent Amg/RS car on track, in some cases can keep up and pass much faster cars (I've chased down Gt350r and c7 vettes before) if you have sufficient skill over the other driver. Being able to say that about a car I drive in the Canadian snowstorm is pretty cool no?

Porsches make great cars, and I definitely will check that off my list one day. However BMW with the M4 brings very good performance as well. Can we all just agree on this and move on?
Appreciate 3
minn195402.50
Fuller672.00

      07-18-2019, 08:29 AM   #20
Funf6cyl
First Lieutenant
148
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
I feel like it's all a matter of perspective. You can also say the m4 gts is a base luxury car with a wing on it while the 911 C2S is a purebred sportscar. If we're strictly talking about laptimes as well, 992 isn't necessarily "easily" faster.

I'm not sure why you guys have such a hard argument when both cars are great in their own ways. Does a F80 M3 beat a GT3 on track? Absolutely not. Sure you can modify it to be faster than the GT3 but then you can further modify the GT3 to be even quicker still. The argument becomes moot very quickly.

Again 911 and any porsches are great cars; my video proves that. However you guys need to understand how good the F8X platform is as well. 2-3 seconds faster than the equivalent Amg/RS car on track, in some cases can keep up and pass much faster cars (I've chased down Gt350r and c7 vettes before) if you have sufficient skill over the other driver. Being able to say that about a car I drive in the Canadian snowstorm is pretty cool no?

Porsches make great cars, and I definitely will check that off my list one day. However BMW with the M4 brings very good performance as well. Can we all just agree on this and move on?
I think your take is a reasonable one. I don’t agree that the 911 is a purebred sports car, maybe a decade ago it was. I’d say the M4 GTS is way more track bred than a 991.2S, lap times would lead you to believe otherwise. The 991 (and I’ve had a few) is a GT car. It’s supremely comfortable, suspension dampening and rebound is the best the auto industry have ever seen, has plenty of tech and luxury and build quality few cars can match. Iit lays down supercar laps times with still very little power compared to what else is out there.
The 992S is an 11.3@125 mph car that runs 7:25 on the Ring on summer tires - for a 440 hp car those are insane numbers. To me, that is easily faster. Just for comparison the 488 GTB runs 7:21 on the Ring but also has nearly 250 more hp.

Your point of modifying is quite valid and applicable. Sure you can modify anything to be fast. Sv whatever clearly wants to race an unfair race - because if it wasn’t unfair he’d go home disappointed. I’m all for the comparison but only with two cars stock.

Last edited by Funf6cyl; 07-18-2019 at 08:34 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2019, 09:40 AM   #21
Absurdium
First Lieutenant
Canada
138
Rep
308
Posts

Drives: F82 TB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
I think your take is a reasonable one. I don’t agree that the 911 is a purebred sports car, maybe a decade ago it was. I’d say the M4 GTS is way more track bred than a 991.2S, lap times would lead you to believe otherwise. The 991 (and I’ve had a few) is a GT car. It’s supremely comfortable, suspension dampening and rebound is the best the auto industry have ever seen, has plenty of tech and luxury and build quality few cars can match. Iit lays down supercar laps times with still very little power compared to what else is out there.
The 992S is an 11.3@125 mph car that runs 7:25 on the Ring on summer tires - for a 440 hp car those are insane numbers. To me, that is easily faster. Just for comparison the 488 GTB runs 7:21 on the Ring but also has nearly 250 more hp.

Your point of modifying is quite valid and applicable. Sure you can modify anything to be fast. Sv whatever clearly wants to race an unfair race - because if it wasn’t unfair he’d go home disappointed. I’m all for the comparison but only with two cars stock.
The 911 platform has definitely gotten larger over the years and I get what you mean by calling it a GT car. However it's really a do-everything car that's made on a bespoke sport oriented platform. Thing with ring times though is that there are a lot of variables at play. The 7:25 ring time is impressive for sure but if that's is the only metric we look at, we'd have to say that the new 992 S is faster than a 991.1 GT3 (7:32) as well as a 458 italia (7:38). Does that seem correct to you? It certainly doesn't to me. I'd take the two other cars any day of the week if I was told to set a fast lap on any of the local tracks here. The point that I've illustrated here is that obviously there are other variables at play here that affect these laptimes so they shouldn't just be used as the sole metric to measure a car's performance as well as potential.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that the 992 can post a 7:25 lap is absolutely stunning. However if you were to pit it against the M4 GTS which did a 7:35 lap on the ring, I would be surprised if it turned out to be a much quicker track weapon at most tracks. The GTS will suit smoother tracks where it can use its stiffer suspension and adjustable downforce to increase cornering speed. However on a track where the surface is uneven and bumpy, the superior damping in the 992 should win out, exactly as you see it in the ring times. Do I think the 992 is amazing? Very much so. Do I think it's easily faster than a M4 GTS on track? Not a chance. Two cars are so different and there are so many variables like track surface, alignment, and even tire pressure, all of which can contribute to one car being faster than the other on any given day.

Look man at the end of the day, all I'm trying to say is things aren't as black and white as you make it to be. You guys don't need to be so harsh on either brands as really, these are two of the last few brands that actually bother to make good driving cars. Just enjoy both
Appreciate 1
minn195402.50

      07-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #22
Montaver
Lieutenant
Montaver's Avatar
458
Rep
527
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
I think your take is a reasonable one. I don’t agree that the 911 is a purebred sports car, maybe a decade ago it was. I’d say the M4 GTS is way more track bred than a 991.2S, lap times would lead you to believe otherwise. The 991 (and I’ve had a few) is a GT car. It’s supremely comfortable, suspension dampening and rebound is the best the auto industry have ever seen, has plenty of tech and luxury and build quality few cars can match. Iit lays down supercar laps times with still very little power compared to what else is out there.
The 992S is an 11.3@125 mph car that runs 7:25 on the Ring on summer tires - for a 440 hp car those are insane numbers. To me, that is easily faster. Just for comparison the 488 GTB runs 7:21 on the Ring but also has nearly 250 more hp.

Your point of modifying is quite valid and applicable. Sure you can modify anything to be fast. Sv whatever clearly wants to race an unfair race - because if it wasn’t unfair he’d go home disappointed. I’m all for the comparison but only with two cars stock.
You are overreaching. Sport auto did a 7:34 in the 992 S, the fastest I have seen anywhere is 7:30 claimed by Porsche. The GTS did 7:25, its a $140k car.

The 911 is a custom built lower volume sports car at a much higher price point. Your comparing it so a 4 door saloon which is based on cooking model architecture and costs roughly 60% when new. Does an F8x crush a Miata on a track? Yes. Its double the price. See where I'm going here?

Here is a direct comparison, the M4 CS is clearly a very special bit of kit.



And if were talking which is faster around a proper circuit like WGI, VIR, Road America etc. between an M3 CS and a Carrera T, my coin is on the CS.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
981, cayman, f82, mosport, track test

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST