BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-19-2012, 08:17 AM   #1
///MML
Private First Class
///MML's Avatar
United_States
47
Rep
175
Posts

Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SF

iTrader: (0)

Rumor about F80 M3 with electric power steering (EPS)

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
I don't mind the F80 going turbo, but not too happy to hear it might be going EPS.
Quote:
A well placed source at BMW M in Garching recently tipped us to the idea that M is looking to introduce Electric Power Assisted Steering in the next M3, codenamed F80 and scheduled to launch as a sedan for model year 2014. According to this source; Porsche is being praised for the system in the new to market 991 which is EPAS, so why can’t M do the same in the M3? We also learned that BMW and Porsche are using ZF as the supplier for these systems. The steering tuning and algorithms would be manufacturer specific but the hardware would be similar if not identical.

There is some efficiency gains with EPAS systems because they, unlike traditional hydraulic offerings, do not draw engine power unless needed and 90% of all driving in done in a straight line where there is no need for power assistance. If the EPAS is not pulled at the last minute in favor of a traditional hydraulic system (as was rumored with the M5/M6) the electronic programming would need to have significantly more feel before the limit than BMW’s current EPAS offerings to keep critics to a minimum. In the US BMW uses EPAS in the latest 3,5, and 6 series models. The current BMW system dials in enough feel to allow the driver to make corrections but that is not communicated early enough in some situations- many bemoan the change.

We hope BMW will utilize a system that regulates the torque output of the electric assist rather than just dial down the power level as that seems to make all the difference in terms of feel. http://www.bimmerfile.com/2012/06/19...ng/#more-21496
__________________
2022 M240i | Brooklyn Gray | Red Leather | Black 791M rim| Black trim | HK | Premium | M Lum
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 08:40 AM   #2
Diver
Brigadier General
Diver's Avatar
United_States
506
Rep
3,445
Posts

Drives: Black '12 135i - Sold
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

I don't have any problem with EPAS. As Porsche has demonstrated, it can be done right. We are in an age of overbearing fuel efficiency regulation. In order to build a high performance car, it is going to take lots of advanced technology. That happens to be one area where BMW has an advantage.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 08:54 AM   #3
manny335ia
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

Drives: 07 335ia
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

I am not sure I like that idea. I think, overall, that people are losing touch with what it is like to drive cars. This is of course for the people who are real car enthusiasts, as well s I believe that people are becoming much more lazy. Some car manufacturers are losing their manual trans, this just adds to it, in my opinion.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:00 AM   #4
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4457
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Meh, we heard it with hydraulic assisted steering, brakes and clutches, this was inevitable. Is the F10 M5 still hydro? As already stated, Porsche has made serious progress with EPS, and it's certainly possible to build a bad hydraulic rack, or a good electric one.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:09 AM   #5
darksilkx1
Lieutenant
159
Rep
492
Posts

Drives: Monthly Payment
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Man the bridges! I see some BMW fans getting ready to jump.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:17 AM   #6
SamS
Banned
United_States
869
Rep
6,248
Posts

Drives: Tesla M3 Perf + '18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Is the F10 M5 still hydro?
Yes.

On the surface, this sounds like bad news for the next M3. But BMW M spends millions of $$ to track and test these models to live up to (and hopefully surpass) enthusiasts' expectations. I'll give them benefit of the doubt, and looking forward to driving one myself.

I like my M3 steering, but I have always felt that BMWs have a bit too much weight in the steering at times. Maybe a finely tuned EPS system can be even better than the best we have today?
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:27 AM   #7
shanecarmaster1
Lieutenant
shanecarmaster1's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
550
Posts

Drives: e90 325i, F01 750Li, e38 740i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Maybe this is actually good because I have a feeling M wouldn't mess up their steering, so their achievements could trickle down to the rest of BMW
__________________
A BMW can be described in one simple, yet true statement, "From the outside you don't understand, from the inside you can't explain." How true is THAT?!
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:28 AM   #8
Blubaron79
Brigadier General
Blubaron79's Avatar
United_States
1437
Rep
4,728
Posts

Drives: 2021 M340i xDrive
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)



I did like EPS in my F30 loaner..

Waiting for fan boys to start being very upset about this though....
__________________
Current: 2021 M340i xDrive

Previous: '18 340i xDrive; '15 335 xDrive; '14 435i xDrive; '09 335 E92 xDrive
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:30 AM   #9
M3maniac20
Captain
M3maniac20's Avatar
United_States
91
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW 335is Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Austin, Texas

iTrader: (0)

Like some people have said, I don't care if they do it right, but seriously? What's next BMW? Manual transmission won't be offered?

I'm just ready for it to be out so we can see what really will and won't be on the car instead of reading the rumors.
__________________
2016 340i M-Sport 6-MT(on order)
2013 335is (still have)
2011.5 M3 ZCP (traded in)
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:34 AM   #10
Blindside_137
Lieutenant General
Blindside_137's Avatar
United_States
6940
Rep
10,651
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 SSII E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (2)

I agree SamS.

I can't wait to drive one someday and then, and only then will I judge the car.

But knowing BMW they'll get it right, it's an M3
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:48 AM   #11
gator15
Private First Class
United_States
9
Rep
176
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. I love the steering in my 911, it is the best car I have ever driven. As for BMW, I am being honest when I say this, my 328i is not far behind. I think that a lot of people see EPS and immediately think that different means worse. After I took my 911 around the track, it was clear that the EPS is excellent and I actually prefer it to the steering of my 997.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 09:57 AM   #12
mkiv808
Lieutenant
43
Rep
441
Posts

Drives: 06 E90/Cayman S
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Milford, CT

iTrader: (0)

It could be done right. IMO the current active steering option is an abomination, that truly ruins the steering feel.
__________________
2009 BMW M3 E92 6M AW/FR
Eibach Springs + H&R Front Sway + LUX AE + LCI Taillights + BMW Performance CF Spoiler + Bastuck Clubsport Exhaust
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:00 AM   #13
James T. Kirk
Captain of the Enterprise
James T. Kirk's Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
1,424
Posts

Drives: 2011 1 Series M Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Alpha Quadrant, Sector 001

iTrader: (0)

^+1

It could be done right.
.
__________________

2011 1 Series M Coupe VO M3 vs 1M Comparo Review
2011 M3 E90 DCT ZCP (sold) * 2010 335i Sedan (sold)
2005 M3 Convertible (sold) * 2003 325i Sedan (sold)
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #14
Ash83
Major
Ash83's Avatar
United_States
44
Rep
1,177
Posts

Drives: 135i & RS5 (SOLD)/ 18 CTS-V
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (1)

I agree that if it is done right it will be great... The main problem is a social problem, the M3 is considered a driver involved car but recently with the introduction of all the gadgets from DCT to this EPS, it will take some time to realize that the technology is superior to human reaction.. I guess once its out and people take it to the track, they will find that it is much better to handle and drive.
__________________
Alpine White, Coral RED , Glacier Silver Aluminum trim, M sport, 6MT, NAV, HiFi, USB-iPod, Bluetooth

Performance: JB4|BMW PE|DP Cosmetics: BMW Sport Pedals|Black Kidney Grill
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #15
richb811
richb811's Avatar
479
Rep
4,591
Posts

Drives: 2020 G20 330i M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NJ

iTrader: (21)

If they can do it well... then do it.

BMW won't half ass this and if it is not 100% perfect by the time the car launches, it won't be in the M3.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #16
Year's_End
Lieutenant General
Year's_End's Avatar
United_States
1217
Rep
12,446
Posts

Drives: 2020 Shelby GT350
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I don't think drawing comparisons to the 991's EPS is fair. The 997, with its hydraulic system, is still considered far better on a relative scale to the 991's, with the 991's being "just good enough", with improved accuracy. The 991 and 997 both have to deal with much less weight, especially over the front nose, so it probably requires much less steering assistance, which probably improves overall steering feel in the first place. The M3's engineers have many more obstacles to overcome.
__________________
Past: '08 E92 335i|ZPP|ZSP|6AT
Past: '15 Mustang GT|401A|PP|6MT
Current: '20 Shelby GT350|6MT
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:06 AM   #17
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
4208
Rep
4,820
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
I don't have any problem with EPAS. As Porsche has demonstrated, it can be done right. We are in an age of overbearing fuel efficiency regulation. In order to build a high performance car, it is going to take lots of advanced technology. That happens to be one area where BMW has an advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gator15 View Post
I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. I love the steering in my 911, it is the best car I have ever driven. As for BMW, I am being honest when I say this, my 328i is not far behind. I think that a lot of people see EPS and immediately think that different means worse. After I took my 911 around the track, it was clear that the EPS is excellent and I actually prefer it to the steering of my 997.
Absolutely correct that it could be done right but what are the chances it ends up being executed well? I like to look at both sides and say well this is the M3 and BMW can't possibly mess it up right? But on the other hand some feel the M5 felt less connected than the E60 M5 and that still has hydraulic assist and then there's the whole F30 3-Series problem. We all thought BMW wouldn't mess that up, it's the 3-Series. The benchmark. The icon...and unfortunately they did.

Now, with the Porsche, I haven't read much on it so I don't know how others feel about how Porsche implemented it so I won't comment but only say I hope this is just rumour just because how BMW has fared in this department on the FXX cars. I just don't see why BMW M would have hydraulics with the M5 and M6 and then switch to EPS on the M3. How much are they looking to save? By switching to a turbo straight-six, that's already a huge improvement over the V8. Just doesn't make sense to me. If anything, I would be perfectly fine if BMW went EPS with all models and left hydraulics to just the M cars.

Last edited by TheBingoBalls; 06-19-2012 at 10:12 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #18
freshwhite335
Colonel
freshwhite335's Avatar
United_States
152
Rep
2,882
Posts

Drives: 991/RR Sport AB
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 904 FL

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW 135i  [0.00]
HATED the EPAS in my base F30 328 loaner. It was so limp and slow
__________________
2014 Range Rover Sport Autobiography
2012.5 991 C2S
1978 Corvette
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #19
Mahzari
Captain
United_States
59
Rep
747
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Why? The M5 and M6 have hydraulic systems and, if anything, the M3 should have the best steering out of the range
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:26 AM   #20
HotIce
Banned
United_States
74
Rep
449
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: I'm not telling some creeper where I live!

iTrader: (0)

You have no idea what the wheels are doing in a EPS equipped car. Steering is vague and uncommunicative. I hope the BMW engineers fine tune it properly, or this may very well be the end. Then again, the M3 is BMW's bread and butter. My brain keeps telling me that there is absolutely no way that BMW will mess this up.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:27 AM   #21
Yay-Z
Shifting to Top Gear
Yay-Z's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: F10 M5/E70 X5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Well I hope its good. But it looks like my future M3 purchase might not be happening
__________________
2015 F10 M5 CP
2013 E70 X5
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2012, 10:30 AM   #22
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
4,567
Posts

Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Here I am, on the bridge, ready to jump.

This is yet another in a long line of technical innovations that ultimately only get in between the driver and the car. At the risk of coming off as a Luddite, it really seems that BMW has forgotten what it means to enjoy the act of driving with these kinds of changes.

I really want to like the F86, but increasingly, I see a Honda Fit and a low mileage GT3 RS in my future.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | JPN 240 ECU flash | Euro LCI taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2013 bmw m3, 2013 bmw m4, 2013 m3, 2013 m4, 2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 electric power steering, 2014 m3 forum, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 electric power steering, f80 m3 eps, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f83 m3, f83 m4, m forum, m forums, m3 f80, m3 f80 forum, m3 f80 forums, m4 forum, m4 forums

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST