GT350 or SS 1LE v F8x ZCP on track

[Powerslide]

For those who have driven 2 or more of these cars on track (more than just a small number of laps) - how do they compare in your experience assuming same driver experience level.

For any responses - please state whether the cars in question were on stock tires or any other performance-changing mods. Just curious to hear from those who have driven each on track.

[NYG]

GT350 > SS 1LE > F8X in purely stock form.

We've got all three in our crew. SS 1LE is pretty neck and neck with the F82 but usually a few tenths faster. Part of it has to do with better driver and the other part is that I have zero confidence in my brakes. GT350 has the most potential.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by NYG

GT350 > SS 1LE > F8X in purely stock form.

We've got all three in our crew. SS 1LE is pretty neck and neck with the F82 but usually a few tenths faster. Part of it has to do with better driver and the other part is that I have zero confidence in my brakes. GT350 has the most potential.

Are you comparing the CS to the 1LE though? I think it makes more sense to compare to the regular or comp M.

I am interested hearing why you consider the GT350 "better" than the 1LE?

[bracer]

I would bet in modified track form these three close up pretty close in lap time.

[FormulaMMM]

SS 1LE by a margin in stock form and especially with basic mods (e.g., 305 square 3R), and it's not particularly close.

The 1LE is the best track starting platform of the 3, and the easiest to gain substantially more with basic mods. 2c.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

SS 1LE by a margin in stock form and especially with basic mods (e.g., 305 square 3R), and it's not particularly close.

The 1LE is the best track starting platform of the 3, and the easiest to gain substantially more with basic mods. 2c.

So if all cars had 305 square and camber plates but all else stock, 1LE would be notably quicker?

Dang, I thought it would have been close

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So if all cars had 305 square and camber plates but all else stock, 1LE would be notably quicker?

Dang, I thought it would have been close

Can you squeeze 305’s onto an F8X?!

Track and driver dependent as always, but the SS 1LE’s around here are bafflingly quick. In stock form, within tenths of my Z/28.

In modded form -- 305's, plates, alignment, maybe brakes (no power upgrade) -- it gains chunks of time. Like E9X era major track mod gains, 3-5 seconds/lap.

Of the 3 being compared, it’s the one that delivers more track performance than you’d assume. I attribute to superior dampers (mag ride), their eLSD, and mega braking. The Camaros are amazing on the brakes. (I had to relearn brake points going from the Z to GTS. Mowed some grass with the splitter and decided it was time to recalibrate.)

1LE is most friendly to push too thanks to PTM modes. And it’s the cheapest…

Wish you could equally mod a F8X ZCP and get there, but I really don’t think so. Track tires + plates & alignment and an advanced driver with T/C off @ full hustle puts a F8X ZCP about even with a stock 1LE.

[///Mani]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Can you squeeze 305's onto an F8X?!

Track and driver dependent as always, but the SS 1LE's around here are bafflingly quick. In stock form, within tenths of my Z/28.

In modded form -- 305's, plates, alignment, maybe brakes (no power upgrade) -- it gains chunks of time. Like E9X era major track mod gains, 3-5 seconds/lap.

Of the 3 being compared, it's the one that delivers more track performance than you'd assume. I attribute to superior dampers (mag ride), their eLSD, and mega braking. The Camaros are amazing on the brakes. (I had to relearn brake points going from the Z to GTS. Mowed some grass with the splitter and decided it was time to recalibrate.)

1LE is most friendly to push too thanks to PTM modes. And it's the cheapest…

Wish you could equally mod a F8X ZCP and get there, but I really don't think so. Track tires + plates & alignment and an advanced driver with T/C off @ full hustle puts a F8X ZCP about even with a stock 1LE.

Is it really that big of a difference? Where you need a full blown suspension set up to even compare to stock 1LE?

I haven't gotten the chance to track my car yet but I am going with friends next year one who owns a SS1LE and I thought we'd be the most competitive times wise.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by ///mpower.nick

Is it really that big of a difference? Where you need a full blown suspension set up to even compare to stock 1LE?

I haven't gotten the chance to track my car yet but I am going with friends next year one who owns a SS1LE and I thought we'd be the most competitive times wise.

No, not a full blown suspension setup, but tires for sure, and probably as optimum a track alignment as can be achieved with a ZCP and camber plates draws the M close to even.

Figure the ZCP starts with power, damper, diff, tire, and brake disadvantages. Weight is about even.

I'm talking assuming both cars are at the limit. Track days with friends, findings could be different.

You'll upgrade pads and fluid at minimum? Don't try to hang with a 1LE for a session if you have stock brakes. You'll lose yours, he won't. Have fun.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Can you squeeze 305’s onto an F8X?!

Track and driver dependent as always, but the SS 1LE’s around here are bafflingly quick. In stock form, within tenths of my Z/28.

In modded form -- 305's, plates, alignment, maybe brakes (no power upgrade) -- it gains chunks of time. Like E9X era major track mod gains, 3-5 seconds/lap.

Of the 3 being compared, it’s the one that delivers more track performance than you’d assume. I attribute to superior dampers (mag ride), their eLSD, and mega braking. The Camaros are amazing on the brakes. (I had to relearn brake points going from the Z to GTS. Mowed some grass with the splitter and decided it was time to recalibrate.)

1LE is most friendly to push too thanks to PTM modes. And it’s the cheapest…

Wish you could equally mod a F8X ZCP and get there, but I really don’t think so. Track tires + plates & alignment and an advanced driver with T/C off @ full hustle puts a F8X ZCP about even with a stock 1LE.

I’ve read of 19x11 +19 up front with -3.5 camber and a 305/30/19

And also member masterP did 305 square with pirelli DH tires https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1146898

GM has been doing a nice job with Camaro and vette for sure

How are the vettes doing in your area?

[///Mani]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

No, not a full blown suspension setup, but tires for sure, and probably as optimum a track alignment as can be achieved with a ZCP and camber plates draws the M close to even.

Figure the ZCP starts with power, damper, diff, tire, and brake disadvantages. Weight is about even.

I'm talking assuming both cars are at the limit. Track days with friends, findings could be different.

You'll upgrade pads and fluid at minimum? Don't try to hang with a 1LE for a session if you have stock brakes. You'll lose yours, he won't. Have fun.

Yeah definitely new brakes and new fluid. I'll get an oil change beforehand and ask if I need anything. Seems like Chevy is killing it lately with new corvette and zl1 1le

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ///mpower.nick

Yeah definitely new brakes and new fluid. I'll get an oil change beforehand and ask if I need anything. Seems like Chevy is killing it lately with new corvette and zl1 1le

The previous suggestion by formula to get camber plates is key.

I used up stock tires in 4 DE without them

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I’ve read of 19x11 +19 up front with -3.5 camber and a 305/30/19

And also member masterP did 305 square with pirelli DH tires https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1146898

GM has been doing a nice job with Camaro and vette for sure

How are the vettes doing in your area?

Whoa, that's bonkers. I'm rubbing liner with 19" 275 front on my GTS. Wonder if that dude can turn the wheel...

Grand Sports are awesome as well. I have yet to be out there with a Z07 version. But even the base GS is quick.

[bracer]

That dude would be me. It was actually on 10.5" with RE71R 305/30/19. With the right offsets, and struts that don't need spacers it works well. Slight massaging of the fender wells so they don't rub under full lock.

I switched to a 295/30/18 Hoosier A7 instead. It's the tire diameter more than the width that's a problem in this car. I'm pretty sure with the shorter SPL lower arm a 31/5/30/18 would fit. ;}

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by blackey

That dude would be me. It was actually on 10.5" with RE71R 305/30/19. With the right offsets, and struts that don't need spacers it works well. Slight massaging of the fender wells so they don't rub under full lock.

I switched to a 295/30/18 Hoosier A7 instead. It's the tire diameter more than the width that's a problem in this car. I'm pretty sure with the shorter SPL lower arm a 31/5/30/18 would fit. ;}

Sweet! Agreed on the diameter/aspect ratio being key. 265/35-19 no rub, 275/35-19 put a hole in my liners.

[FormulaMMM]

Overlooked lap data coming out of NCM where Andy Pilgrim (pro) is running hot laps with stock cars.

SS 1LE ran a 2:15.6 on the stock Eagle F1 Supercar 3 (not 3R) tires.

Base GT350 got a host of upgrades for '19 -- aero front & rear, Cup 2 (although not the fast variety), updated springs, dampers, braking calibration. GT350R also got some updates.

'20 GT350 ran a 2:15.1. ('20 GT350R 2:13.6.)

For reference, 991.2 GT3 is 2:11.1.

Consistent with what I've experienced, except on a tighter, shorter circuit the slightly modified 1LE is GT350R territory or better, and runs the GT3 unreasonably close. Counterintuitive if you think of the Camaro as big and cumbersome, but straights are where the GT3 gains chunks of time.

NCM front max speeds:

991.2 GT3: 144 mph
GT350R 136 mph
1LE: 134 mph

Back "straight":

991.2 GT3: 144 mph
GT350R: 136 mph
1LE: 132 mph

Used 1LE is like 30k nowadays. Pretty ridiculous.

[bracer]

I had a great time this past weekend running with a GT350 and a Camaro ZL1. We were nose to tail pretty much the whole session at Willow Springs with no one really have a big advantage although the Camaro looked to be the fastest car of the three of us.

That being said I have no doubt my M3 had by far the most modifications.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Overlooked lap data coming out of NCM where Andy Pilgrim (pro) is running hot laps with stock cars.

SS 1LE ran a 2:15.6 on the stock Eagle F1 Supercar 3 (not 3R) tires.

Base GT350 got a host of upgrades for '19 -- aero front & rear, Cup 2 (although not the fast variety), updated springs, dampers, braking calibration. GT350R also got some updates.

'20 GT350 ran a 2:15.1. ('20 GT350R 2:13.6.)

For reference, 991.2 GT3 is 2:11.1.

Consistent with what I've experienced, except on a tighter, shorter circuit the slightly modified 1LE is GT350R territory or better, and runs the GT3 unreasonably close. Counterintuitive if you think of the Camaro as big and cumbersome, but straights are where the GT3 gains chunks of time.

NCM front max speeds:

991.2 GT3: 144 mph
GT350R 136 mph
1LE: 134 mph

Back "straight":

991.2 GT3: 144 mph
GT350R: 136 mph
1LE: 132 mph

Used 1LE is like 30k nowadays. Pretty ridiculous.

Nice data thanks for sharing. Does Andy have data in F8x for comparison?

(I’m seeing 2:20 as the fastest time on our forums, m3cs on ?pirelli slicks?)

[SYT_Shadow]

comparing pro to non pro is not apples to apples.

Mr Clay did 2:01 at VIR in my CS with the suspension actively trying to kill him... no one else is going to match that time

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

comparing pro to non pro is not apples to apples.

Mr Clay did 2:01 at VIR in my CS with the suspension actively trying to kill him... no one else is going to match that time

I 100% agree , and that's why I asked if Andy had an NCM time in F8x as a comparator.

That being said, I recall from a few years ago that member colatkitty posted up a vid (in a borrowed M4) where he essentially matched Randy P's time at Big Willow!!

[CanAutM3]

For reference, since the GT3 was mentioned (this guy does great reviews):

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I 100% agree , and that's why I asked if Andy had an NCM time in F8x as a comparator.

That being said, I recall from a few years ago that member colatkitty posted up a vid (in a borrowed M4) where he essentially matched Randy P's time at Big Willow!!

Probably the best reference point available for stock ZCP. Figure it's the better part of 2 seconds off a 718 GTS? (Speculating...)