I drove an M4 CS and it reminded me of a muscle car

[bmwdrive]

I test drove an M4 CS a few weeks ago. It was a very short test drive so my impressions aren't all that reliable. But the car reminded me of my friend's old Vette. It felt like a beast, not like a super sharp handling German car.

Am I totally off base? Is the base M4 different?

[NickyC]

I've always felt the M4 was sort of a German muscle car so to speak. It also reminds me a bunch of the MKIV Supra. To be honest, I think Toyota should have rebadged an M4 as the new Supra and not the Z (if they just had to do the rebadging thing). No other car I've owned since my Supra reminds me of it the way an M4 does.

I agree though, not a super sharp handling car.

[hellokitty]

Suspension tuning sucks on this car. Needs coilovers lol

Great on flat surfaces, just horrible when going through rough patches.

[bmwdrive]

I also drove the new M340. It felt like the sharper car compared to the M4. But less beastly, like I'm less likely to kill myself in it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by danf72

I test drove an M4 CS a few weeks ago. It was a very short test drive so my impressions aren't all that reliable. But the car reminded me of my friend's old Vette. It felt like a beast, not like a super sharp handling German car.

Am I totally off base? Is the base M4 different?

You're pretty off base. The CS handles well, but it is stiffer than a regular M4. I think you'd need to experience a spirited drive in one to understand.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You're pretty off base. The CS handles well, but it is stiffer than a regular M4. I think you'd need to experience a spirited drive in one to understand.

Personally, besides owning an M4 for two years and test driving an M4 CS recently..

I agree with his post talking about how it feels like a muscle car.

It has lost a bit of it's original appeal, and now feels more like a C63 (numb but fast) than an M3 of the E46/E92 era with their mechanical steering, N/A motors.

I feel like ///M lost their way around 2015 with the F8x generation.
People new to ///M post 2015 will find it's still a better driver's car than RS and AMG variants, but the gap has significantly closed. Back in 2010, the by far and away best choice for a "non-muscle car" feel was an ZCP E92 M3.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Personally, besides owning an M4 for two years and test driving an M4 CS recently..

I agree with his post talking about how it feels like a muscle car.

It has lost a bit of it's original appeal, and now feels more like a C63 (numb but fast) than an M3 of the E46/E92 era with their mechanical steering, N/A motors.

I feel like ///M lost their way around 2015 with the F8x generation.

Care to explain to me what "original appeal" you're referring to? I guess we can all agree to disagree. I don't think the ///M feels anything close to a muscle car. Muscle cars tend to be a lot less refined - albeit fast and loud - than what we experience driving an ///M. Then again, I guess that would depend on how you define a muscle car. I've heard people refer to ///M's of the last two decades as too refined and not visceral enough. That cannot be said about a true muscle car.

[DML]

Originally Posted by danf72

I also drove the new M340. It felt like the sharper car compared to the M4. But less beastly, like I'm less likely to kill myself in it.

I too but as a loaner, NOT impressed in the least. It's long and boring with a "fake" badging, priced at about 65K and that might be modest. Zero interest here, but we're all different.

[backagain]

Originally Posted by DML

I too but as a loaner, NOT impressed in the least. It's long and boring with a "fake" badging, priced at about 65K and that might be modest. Zero interest here, but we're all different.

Originally Posted by danf72

I also drove the new M340. It felt like the sharper car compared to the M4. But less beastly, like I'm less likely to kill myself in it.

At a recent BMW event, I got to drive the M340 and looped the course a few times. Initially I was driving it the way I drive my M3, but was caught off guard by the amount of understeering. Can't say it was sharper.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by backagain

At a recent BMW event, I got to drive the M340 and looped the course a few times. Initially I was driving it the way I drive my M3, but was caught off guard by the amount of understeering. Can't say it was sharper.

+1

Anybody claiming an M340 to be sharper than the F8X is kidding themselves.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Personally, besides owning an M4 for two years and test driving an M4 CS recently..

I agree with his post talking about how it feels like a muscle car.

It has lost a bit of it's original appeal, and now feels more like a C63 (numb but fast) than an M3 of the E46/E92 era with their mechanical steering, N/A motors.

I feel like ///M lost their way around 2015 with the F8x generation.
People new to ///M post 2015 will find it's still a better driver's car than RS and AMG variants, but the gap has significantly closed. Back in 2010, the by far and away best choice for a "non-muscle car" feel was an ZCP E92 M3.

I've owned an E46 M3 for almost 7 years and an E92 for 6 years. I'm now in my 5th year of F82 ownership (4 years in a 2015 and now one year with my CS). All my ///Ms served the dual duty of 4-season daily drivers and track toys (with 16~20 track days per season). I certainly don't agree with your statement.

While I truly loved all my ///Ms before it, my M4cs is the best ///M I've owned thus far. It is a better daily driver and a better track car than all of them. The chassis is very well connected and the engine has a very solid pull.

As for MB and Audi "closing the gap", I would read up a little on history, as it's always been a tight battle between these three right from the onset since the E30 M3 era, with each brand holding true to it's roots.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've owned an E46 M3 for almost 7 years and an E92 for 6 years. I'm now in my 5th year of F82 ownership (4 years in a 2015 and now one year with my CS). All my ///Ms served the dual duty of 4-season daily drivers and track toys (with 16~20 track days per season). I certainly don't agree with your statement.

While I truly loved all my ///Ms before it, my M4cs is the best ///M I've owned thus far. It is a better daily driver and a better track car than all of them. The chassis is very well connected and the engine has a very solid pull.

As for MB and Audi "closing the gap", I would read up a little on history, as it's always been a tight battle between these three right from the onset since the E30 M3 era, with each brand holding true to it's roots.

Same here. I've owned two E46 M3's, three E9X M3's and I'm on my second F82 M4, and the F8X is the more capable car in every objective measure despite people romanticizing earlier generations.

[cotmfk]

The M3/4 is always in the running for best daily driver money can buy.

This generation does have a bit of muscle car feel - but that's not all it does. It also handles, is luxurious, etc. Jack of all trades. The quote below is more what I think when I think of comparing the M4 to other cars. It does remind me of the MKIV Supra as well.

Originally Posted by NickyC

I've always felt the M4 was sort of a German muscle car so to speak. It also reminds me a bunch of the MKIV Supra. To be honest, I think Toyota should have rebadged an M4 as the new Supra and not the Z (if they just had to do the rebadging thing). No other car I've owned since my Supra reminds me of it the way an M4 does.

I agree though, not a super sharp handling car.

[Alan l.]

Butt dyno needs re-calibration. You need to go test drive some real American muscle cars then get back into the M4CS. M340 feels sharper? That's not even possible in any measurable way..

Sometimes you need to go down on level of cars that you are use to so that you can appreciate what you have. After having my F80 for a little over a year it by far is my favorite car to date. I've had nicer cars but none of them puts a smile on my face as much as my M3 does.

Alan

[NYG]

I wouldn't call a Corvette a "muscle car" but I can see where you find the similarity. There aren't really many classically defined muscle cars around any more, aside from maybe the Charger and Challenger. The GT350s and 1LE Camaros can take corners better than almost any car BMW makes. The M4 has a ton of torque and the rear is very light so oversteer is always waiting for you. That being said, I disagree with you about the handling. While I really dislike electronic steering, the car is very precise and with a decent alignment it is right at home on a track. The chassis is ridiculously stiff. The M340 isn't even in the same category, it's a few steps down.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Personally, besides owning an M4 for two years and test driving an M4 CS recently..

I agree with his post talking about how it feels like a muscle car.

It has lost a bit of it's original appeal, and now feels more like a C63 (numb but fast) than an M3 of the E46/E92 era with their mechanical steering, N/A motors.

I feel like ///M lost their way around 2015 with the F8x generation.
People new to ///M post 2015 will find it's still a better driver's car than RS and AMG variants, but the gap has significantly closed. Back in 2010, the by far and away best choice for a "non-muscle car" feel was an ZCP E92 M3.

There is no comparison today, as there was no comparison back in the stone age with the good old E9X

The RS continues to be a complete joke of a car if you are interested in a sport car. If you just wanted a more powerful A4 then it delivers.

The C63 now weighs a cool 4000lb. So like a M4 convertible. I've actually tracked the current gen one. People need to share what they're on if they think this is a competitor of the F8X M


I'm a big fan of the E9X generation. I still have two of them and one is a 4.6L stroker, however, it is undeniable that the CS is a big step forward in most things other than steering feel and sound. It is incredibly capable. With stock suspension it can do a 2:06 lap of WGI on street tires... pretty damn fast.


Personally I bemoan the loss of the nice hydraulic steering as well as N/A engines, but unfortunately the world has moved on and those two things don't really exist anymore. And seeing how great the S55 performs I can't murmur too much. For a turbo engine it is extraordinarily linear and has excellent power delivery

[Jim B]

The M4 IS a muscle car, and I love mine.

[allinon72]

I wonder if some people equate different as better. There's a real risk of that especially with a small sample size.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by cotmfk

The M3/4 is always in the running for best daily driver money can buy.

This generation does have a bit of muscle car feel - but that's not all it does. It also handles, is luxurious, etc. Jack of all trades. The quote below is more what I think when I think of comparing the M4 to other cars. It does remind me of the MKIV Supra as well.

Handling is a generic term. There are multiple aspects to "handling".

Chassis balance, shock tuning , G limits, etc.

While the F chassis had great understeer/oversteer balance, it's rebound shock tuning sucks. I moved to Ohlins coil overs to make the rear-end behave.

[gripenM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've owned an E46 M3 for almost 7 years and an E92 for 6 years. I'm now in my 5th year of F82 ownership (4 years in a 2015 and now one year with my CS). All my ///Ms served the dual duty of 4-season daily drivers and track toys (with 16~20 track days per season). I certainly don't agree with your statement.

While I truly loved all my ///Ms before it, my M4cs is the best ///M I've owned thus far. It is a better daily driver and a better track car than all of them. The chassis is very well connected and the engine has a very solid pull.

agreed, i've had the E36 M3 and the E90 M3, as well as a base F82 M4 and now the M4 CS

The previous gens certainly had some rawness about them, especially the E36, and the E90 M3 felt most like the muscle car, only thing it had going for it was the noise.

the CS feels fun to drive even when driven slowly around town,
same cannot be said about most sports cars.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Handling is a generic term. There are multiple aspects to "handling".

Chassis balance, shock tuning , G limits, etc.

While the F chassis had great understeer/oversteer balance, it's rebound shock tuning sucks. I moved to Ohlins coil overs to make the rear-end behave.

While some people sit in front of a computer screen and criticize suspension/damping/whatever of the F8X, others are laying down ridiculous times with the stock suspension.

You're on the west coast so not familiar with Watkins Glen, but a 2:06 laptime on street tires and stock suspension is quite fast.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by gripenM

agreed, i've had the E36 M3 and the E90 M3, as well as a base F82 M4 and now the M4 CS

The previous gens certainly had some rawness about them, especially the E36, and the E90 M3 felt most like the muscle car, only thing it had going for it was the noise.

the CS feels fun to drive even when driven slowly around town,
same cannot be said about most sports cars.

I never got that with my DCT M cars, but the CS is/was the most fun of them in that way. I guess I've found out once and for all I am a MT driver when it comes to my fun cars.