Buying and selling..... a lesson learned

[horsepower_and_hounds]

So I am here to tell a story about a lesson learned buying parts off the forum and others to be advised......

This is not about the money any longer.... I accepted the fact I got screwed for being trusting and moving on. I have been a part of Bimmerpost community since 2012, modded 5 cars, posted up installs and bought/sold many items across these boards. Not once have I had a complaint against something I have sold, had any trust issues nor had an issue with anything I have bought from fellow members..... till now.

So lets get the party started

On May 9th I purchased a used carbon lip which I thought was a great deal, knowing it was scraped up on the bottom as stated by the seller. But it was only $300 + shipping. Paid promptly and awaited its shipment which "I" paid for the shipping quoted by the seller. The seller did not ship the lip right away but waited a week. I was told he waited to receive his new lip so he could reuse the shipping box and save money....I paid for the shipping...why is he saving himself money? He also shipped it to a Fedex location which is cheaper..... I had to go get it. Delay that was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing.... no problem.


Lesson #1 get full disclosure & commitment on shipping time


Lip arrived and I didn’t unbox till the following day knowing I was not going to install it for a bit. Opened the box, took it out and WTF, the one side was completely ground thru.... scraped? Really......

I contacted the seller and his comment was “I sent you many photos showing the condition”, yadda, yadda, yadda..... you knew what you were buying. He kept suggesting to put it on and try it out.... you wont even see the hole and “scrapes”. It will get damaged anyways he said.... Really? Ok


Lesson #2 look at the photos very very closely, not just on your phone. Put them on the computer, blow them up, use a magnifying glass, etc.... do not just go on the sellers description disclosing the condition.


He somewhat offered to take it back but of course I would be out the shipping to and from me. He claimed he was not going to sweat a $300 lip....If I had sent it back I would have been out half the cost of the lip and completely empty handed. Why should I be out the money. So I thought I would try to work something out and get it fixed and maybe he would help pay for it. Told him since it was cheap I could make it work, would fit check it as in “hold it to the front of the car” as he suggested to see how bad it looked. I called for some quotes on getting it fixed and they were stupid. Then a friend of mine in the cycling community that does carbon bike frame and Kart repair stopped by my place to have a look and see what he could do. So once again I am doing all the work to try and save this deal. Well he then pointed out the lip was damaged in other places and it looked like some attempt to glue it was done.... Really?


Lesson #3.... know your shit and look it over real good, get someone to look at it that knows. I was so fixated on the horrible condition on the bottom that was so called “scraped up” that I didn't even look the rest of it over. This thing was clearly junk.


Oh and payment.... he didn't do PayPal and insisted on Zelle which I do not use so I paid with Venmo. My wife said...... good luck with that


Lesson #4 Careful how you pay


I contacted him again and expressed my dissatisfaction and requested to have it shipped back and money refunded. He was a total ass about it, accused me of lying, accused me of damaging the lip, accused me of installing it..... I guess he was peeking in my garage window. A complete total jerk. Yelling on the phone, threatening, etc etc. Like WTF.. this was a $375 part....... I spend more on dog treats in a month to listen to this garbage. Oh and I won't sweat a $300 lip..... man he must have been sweating the way he was yelling and accusing me on the phone. My wife couldn't believe what was going on...she could hear him.

He even suggested if I didn’t want it on my car that I could sell it...... really? I would sell something like this to someone else?

Don't think so...

He claims that he never installed it after buying it from another forum member and throughly inspected it and there was nothing wrong. Well he missed the mark on this one. No matter how much he has sold or of his seller rating.... the ball was clearly dropped and I am holding it. I would chuck or give away something like this before I tried to sell it to one of our family.

Well there is plenty more where this came from but only a summary and I am sure he has a whole lot of BS to say about it but just a FYI....

Be leery, even buying from someone like me unless you are there to put your hand on it. We are all human and can make mistakes, miss something, etc..... And if you do be a man about it

Lesson learned....I have been way too trusting and carefree over the years

*edited* for crappy spelling

[Palala808]

Sorry to hear OP. Being a new owner to this platform I'm hoping there's still some decent/honest sellers and buyers that keep the scales in favor of people wanting to do business on here.

[oduli81]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

So I am here to tell a story about a lesson learned buying parts off the forum and others to be advised......

This is not about the money any longer.... I accepted the fact I got screwed for being trusting and moving on. I have been a part of Bimmerpost community since 2012, modded 5 cars, posted up installs and bought/sold many items across these boards. Not once have I had a complaint against something I have sold, had any trust issues nor had an issue with anything I have bought from fellow members..... till now.

So lets get the party started

On May 9th I purchased a used carbon lip which I thought was a great deal, knowing it was scraped up on the bottom as stated by the seller. But it was only $300 + shipping. Paid promptly and awaited its shipment which "I" paid for the shipping quoted by the seller. The seller did not ship the lip right away but waited a week. I was told he waited to receive his new lip so he could reuse the shipping box and save money....I paid for the shipping...why is he saving himself money? He also shipped it to a Fedex location which is cheaper..... I had to go get it. Delay that was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing.... no problem.


Lesson #1 get full disclosure & commitment on shipping time


Lip arrived and I didn't unbox till the following day knowing I was not going to install it for a bit. Opened the box, took it out and WTF, the one side was completely ground thru.... scraped? Really......

I contacted the seller and his comment was "I sent you many photos showing the condition", yadda, yadda, yadda..... you knew what you were buying. He kept suggesting to put it on and try it out.... you wont even see the hole and "scrapes". It will get damaged anyways he said.... Really? Ok


Lesson #2 look at the photos very very closely, not just on your phone. Put them on the computer, blow them up, use a magnifying glass, etc.... do not just go on the sellers description disclosing the condition.


He somewhat offered to take it back but of course I would be out the shipping to and from me. He claimed he was not going to sweat a $300 lip....If I had sent it back I would have been out half the cost of the lip and completely empty handed. Why should I be out the money. So I thought I would try to work something out and get it fixed and maybe he would help pay for it. Told him since it was cheap I could make it work, would fit check it as in "hold it to the front of the car" as he suggested to see how bad it looked. I called for some quotes on getting it fixed and they were stupid. Then a friend of mine in the cycling community that does carbon bike frame and Kart repair stopped by my place to have a look and see what he could do. So once again I am doing all the work to try and save this deal. Well he then pointed out the lip was damaged in other places and it looked like some attempt to glue it was done.... Really?


Lesson #3.... know your shit and look it over real good, get someone to look at it that knows. I was so fixated on the horrible condition on the bottom that was so called "scraped up" that I didn't even look the rest of it over. This thing was clearly junk.


Oh and payment.... he didn't do PayPal and insisted on Zelle which I do not use so I paid with Venmo. My wife said...... good luck with that


Lesson #4 Careful how you pay


I contacted him again and expressed my dissatisfaction and requested to have it shipped back and money refunded. He was a total ass about it, accused me of lying, accused me of damaging the lip, accused me of installing it..... I guess he was peeking in my garage window. A complete total jerk. Yelling on the phone, threatening, etc etc. Like WTF.. this was a $375 part....... I spend more on dog treats in a month to listen to this garbage. Oh and I won't sweat a $300 lip..... man he must have been sweating the way he was yelling and accusing me on the phone. My wife couldn't believe what was going on...she could hear him.

He even suggested if I didn't want it on my car that I could sell it...... really? I would sell something like this to someone else?

Don't think so...

He claims that he never installed it after buying it from another forum member and throughly inspected it and there was nothing wrong. Well he missed the mark on this one. No matter how much he has sold or of his seller rating.... the ball was clearly dropped and I am holding it. I would chuck or give away something like this before I tried to sell it to one of our family.

Well there is plenty more where this came from but only a summary and I am sure he has a whole lot of BS to say about it but just a FYI....

Be leery, even buying from someone like me unless you are there to put your hand on it. We are all human and can make mistakes, miss something, etc..... And if you do be a man about it

Lesson learned....I have been way too trusting and carefree over the years

*edited* for crappy spelling

or buy new next time if your not sure

[Yessir]

Originally Posted by oduli81

or buy new next time if your not sure

Dumbest response ever!!! This has nothing with him buying new. This a PSA to the users on this sight. You obviously missed the parts were he was saying he was a long time member, built many cars, bought many parts and this is the first time he's had an issue come up that has been this sour. Looks like we have another scammer douchebag to contend with here.

[coldsteelrain]

First mistake :
For that price you could have bought a new fake CS lip on eBay or alibaba like the one you did (replica) if that's the sort of stuff you're into
Second mistake:
Buying damaged carbon fiber, that could have gotten even more damaged during shipping
Third mistake:
You expecting for him to pay for you to get it fixed? Or am I getting that wrong? He didn't change any of the pictures if I am correct

Maybe he shouldn't have been as a nasty as you claim he was and that's only your side of the story. I am sure he has his side as well.
I generally feel bad for anyone that has a bad experience on here but I just can't feel bad for anyone buying damaged replica stuff and slapping that onto an M3/M4.
Don't take it the wrong way just constructive criticism that's all it is.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

So I am here to tell a story about a lesson learned buying parts off the forum and others to be advised......

This is not about the money any longer.... I accepted the fact I got screwed for being trusting and moving on. I have been a part of Bimmerpost community since 2012, modded 5 cars, posted up installs and bought/sold many items across these boards. Not once have I had a complaint against something I have sold, had any trust issues nor had an issue with anything I have bought from fellow members..... till now.

So lets get the party started

On May 9th I purchased a used carbon lip which I thought was a great deal, knowing it was scraped up on the bottom as stated by the seller. But it was only $300 + shipping. Paid promptly and awaited its shipment which "I" paid for the shipping quoted by the seller. The seller did not ship the lip right away but waited a week. I was told he waited to receive his new lip so he could reuse the shipping box and save money....I paid for the shipping...why is he saving himself money? He also shipped it to a Fedex location which is cheaper..... I had to go get it. Delay that was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing.... no problem.


Lesson #1 get full disclosure & commitment on shipping time


Lip arrived and I didn’t unbox till the following day knowing I was not going to install it for a bit. Opened the box, took it out and WTF, the one side was completely ground thru.... scraped? Really......

I contacted the seller and his comment was “I sent you many photos showing the condition”, yadda, yadda, yadda..... you knew what you were buying. He kept suggesting to put it on and try it out.... you wont even see the hole and “scrapes”. It will get damaged anyways he said.... Really? Ok


Lesson #2 look at the photos very very closely, not just on your phone. Put them on the computer, blow them up, use a magnifying glass, etc.... do not just go on the sellers description disclosing the condition.


He somewhat offered to take it back but of course I would be out the shipping to and from me. He claimed he was not going to sweat a $300 lip....If I had sent it back I would have been out half the cost of the lip and completely empty handed. Why should I be out the money. So I thought I would try to work something out and get it fixed and maybe he would help pay for it. Told him since it was cheap I could make it work, would fit check it as in “hold it to the front of the car” as he suggested to see how bad it looked. I called for some quotes on getting it fixed and they were stupid. Then a friend of mine in the cycling community that does carbon bike frame and Kart repair stopped by my place to have a look and see what he could do. So once again I am doing all the work to try and save this deal. Well he then pointed out the lip was damaged in other places and it looked like some attempt to glue it was done.... Really?


Lesson #3.... know your shit and look it over real good, get someone to look at it that knows. I was so fixated on the horrible condition on the bottom that was so called “scraped up” that I didn't even look the rest of it over. This thing was clearly junk.


Oh and payment.... he didn't do PayPal and insisted on Zelle which I do not use so I paid with Venmo. My wife said...... good luck with that


Lesson #4 Careful how you pay


I contacted him again and expressed my dissatisfaction and requested to have it shipped back and money refunded. He was a total ass about it, accused me of lying, accused me of damaging the lip, accused me of installing it..... I guess he was peeking in my garage window. A complete total jerk. Yelling on the phone, threatening, etc etc. Like WTF.. this was a $375 part....... I spend more on dog treats in a month to listen to this garbage. Oh and I won't sweat a $300 lip..... man he must have been sweating the way he was yelling and accusing me on the phone. My wife couldn't believe what was going on...she could hear him.

He even suggested if I didn’t want it on my car that I could sell it...... really? I would sell something like this to someone else?

Don't think so...

He claims that he never installed it after buying it from another forum member and throughly inspected it and there was nothing wrong. Well he missed the mark on this one. No matter how much he has sold or of his seller rating.... the ball was clearly dropped and I am holding it. I would chuck or give away something like this before I tried to sell it to one of our family.

Well there is plenty more where this came from but only a summary and I am sure he has a whole lot of BS to say about it but just a FYI....

Be leery, even buying from someone like me unless you are there to put your hand on it. We are all human and can make mistakes, miss something, etc..... And if you do be a man about it

Lesson learned....I have been way too trusting and carefree over the years

*edited* for crappy spelling

Was this the cs rep?

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by coldsteelrain

First mistake :
For that price you could have bought a new fake CS lip on eBay or alibaba like the one you did (replica) if that's the sort of stuff you're into
Second mistake:
Buying damaged carbon fiber, that could have gotten even more damaged during shipping
Third mistake:
You expecting for him to pay for you to get it fixed? Or am I getting that wrong? He didn't change any of the pictures if I am correct

Maybe he shouldn't have been as a nasty as you claim he was and that's only your side of the story. I am sure he has his side as well.
I generally feel bad for anyone that has a bad experience on here but I just can't feel bad for anyone buying damaged replica stuff and slapping that onto an M3/M4.
Don't take it the wrong way just constructive criticism that's all it is.

Not at all...everyone does have an opinion and are appreciated. I have had scraped parts before.... I guess anything that has a chip in it can be considered "damaged". Scraped does not mean a gaping 6in hole in it in anyone's book but as you said it is one persons side of the story. Fact is i have the scraped lip and it is more than just that.......

Either way thanks for another view of the situation

[coldsteelrain]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

Not at all...everyone does have an opinion and are appreciated. I have had scraped parts before.... I guess anything that has a chip in it can be considered "damaged". Scraped does not mean a gaping 6in hole in it in anyone's book but as you said it is one persons side of the story. Fact is i have the scraped lip and it is more than just that.......

Either way thanks for another view of the situation

At this point I think it would be fair for him to refund you half of what you paid as IMO that's way to high of a price for something that much damaged and having now read his for sale thread it's definitely ambiguous on its condition.
Personally I would have thrown that straight into trash if I was him and would have never attempted to sell it.
Lest hope he sees his mistake, you already know yours and hopefully something can be arranged for everyone to walk away as happy as possible.
Thx for not taking it the wrong way

[White340]

How about posting the pics he sent you and the actual lip you receiveD? Also what's the user name so this doesn't happen again?

I feel like there should be a big banner on the for sale sections that have buying and selling tips like to use PayPal and what not.

[allinon72]

Selling anything anymore is a pain in the ass and after you do get it sold, it hardly feels worth it.

Also worth noting that the cheaper these cars get, the more unsavory the owners get, and they always seem to flock to forums. Just the reality of car ownership.

[BzsBimmer]

You know, as another long time member of the Bimmerpost forums, I can also attest to the sheer fear one can get when buying and selling these days.

I’ve always tried to be a very upfront and honest seller/buyer but these days, it seems that there are scams and shady people everywhere.

Sometimes being burned helps toughen your resolve to prevent it in the future, triple check everything, be overly suspicious, and be prepared to not buy that “deal of a century” if spidey senses start to tingle.

I’ve resolved to either buy or sell in person or from people I’ve come to know from seeing on the forums for a while. There are still a large percentage of people here that are honest, but totally understand where you’re coming from.

[OF Hero]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Selling anything anymore is a pain in the ass and after you do get it sold, it hardly feels worth it.

Also worth noting that the cheaper these cars get, the more unsavory the owners get, and they always seem to flock to forums. Just the reality of car ownership.

I was just about to say that there seems like there have been a lot of scam threads lately....but you may have nailled the reasoning for it.

[Mar48]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

You know, as another long time member of the Bimmerpost forums, I can also attest to the sheer fear one can get when buying and selling these days.

I’ve always tried to be a very upfront and honest seller/buyer but these days, it seems that there are scams and shady people everywhere.

Sometimes being burned helps toughen your resolve to prevent it in the future, triple check everything, be overly suspicious, and be prepared to not buy that “deal of a century” if spidey senses start to tingle.

I’ve resolved to either buy or sell in person or from people I’ve come to know from seeing on the forums for a while. There are still a large percentage of people here that are honest, but totally understand where you’re coming from.

There is one solution to every single one of these threads (from a buyer’s perspective), buy it with a service (PayPal - but not friends and family or ebay) that offers “Buyer Protection”. Literally there is an identical post to this every single week between the various car groups I’m on and I’m
A) astounded by how many people are trusting of someone they don’t know and
B) how many people ignore or don’t listen to the above advice of ONLY using PayPal (or eBay) for online transactions...

Venmo, Zelle, Wire Transfer, etc etc should ONLY be used with someone you actually know and trust (and never someone who you only know through the internet).... and even then I would only use it for money gifts/paying people back, not purchasing an item, good or service (unless said service has been rendered). The 3% PP fee/insurance is often worth it...

OP - it's a hard lesson to learn, sorry it happened to you.

I once sent a scammer $2K via PayPal (but paid the normal, protected, way). Guy kept giving me the run around, I called him out as a scammer, he sent me a bunch of laughing face emojis back and basically said he makes a ton of money doing what he does (scamming). Filed a dispute, had my money back within 10 days.

[Poiseuille]

post is not necessarily directed at the OP who appears to have been on the Forum for a while. the original listing for the part in question is still viewable in classifieds, complete with pictures, dated 4/28/20.
other than that:
NEVER EVER AGREE TO ANYTHING BUT PAYPAL, ignore all excuses, never use Paypal F&F (but maybe agree to share Paypal fee AFTER you have your parts).
any seller unwilling to accept your conditions should be politely wished good luck, have a nice day and so forth.

having said all that i'm happy to report that i've bought wheels, spoilers, spacers, small tools and various CF bits via BP member classifieds with no problems whatsoever. each of these guys has been a pleasure to work with. some of them are probably reading this.
my best advice is at all times to trust your instincts. for example, if a guy writes like a chithead there's a good chance he's a chithead.
hope your luck improves.

[BlackF82]

To all who are saying this is a scam, its not though, its kind of not being honest instead (if all OP saying is legit)

To the OP, it would have been fair if he returned the item with both of you sharing the shipping cost. There is no win for both parties in this situation but both can share the loss! He pays a half for not being honest and you pay a half for trusting someone you never met.

Lastly, like you said its only $300. The world still has good in it. I bought an item from NY a while back and paid $4200 without seeing it or knowing the seller. Only thing I did right was use PayPal (worth the small fee). Shit happens man! Its ok

[BzsBimmer]

This lip could be a good scenario that not all PP transactions are “safe”

- Buyer uses PP (not F&F) and seller ships item
- Buyer receives item, has a oh chit moment
- Dialogue ensues and goes nowhere
- Buyer uses PP refund process
- Seller counters and shows proof of delivery
- PP sides with Seller because proof of delivery was made and item was as described

Ya?

[zamboni]

Did you check his feed back prior to purchase?

[Mar48]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

This lip could be a good scenario that not all PP transactions are “safe”

- Buyer uses PP (not F&F) and seller ships item
- Buyer receives item, has a oh chit moment
- Dialogue ensues and goes nowhere
- Buyer uses PP refund process
- Seller counters and shows proof of delivery
- PP sides with Seller because proof of delivery was made and item was as described

Ya?

No, PayPal NEARLY always sides with the buyer in the case of 'not as described', I've had more than a half dozen instances of where I received an item not as described and had to get PP involved. I won everyone, although I do always document the condition in the description of my PP payment so there is no question what I received was not what I agreed to purchase.

Now in this case, if the buyer agrees to pay shipping directly, and receives a damaged good OR something not as described than he will be on the hook for both shipping to and shipping from. Hence, why you should never do it this way, particularly on an oversized item. eBay has the advantage over PP when it comes to the shipping front, as PP makes the buyer ship the item back... eBay makes the seller PAY for the shipping back. So, via eBay you can come out with a $0 impact to you for buying/receiving something not as described, whereas PayPal you will be on the hook for shipping cost back to the seller.

[DML]

Better yet, purchase new and avoid the BS scammers. Pay to play, easier on the head.

[9M71]

If you reach out to Venmo customer service, they maybe be able to help. This is from personal experience.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Never once did I accuse the seller of being a scam. Nor did I do mame dropping or call him out on this forum.

Do I feel I deserve a refund...yes. Based on the description of the item and lack of directly pointing out the terrible condition of the bottom and trying to accuse me of damaging his already damaged product.

Did I review his past rating...yes i did and that is why I had no problem paying like i did..... trust.

But that does not set an example of his ability to problem resolution if he makes a mistake and he clearly did in this case. You can be the best seller and sell good product but when you have an issue.....how is your follow up customer service?

The fact that he never used the item and purchased it used and resold.... there is clearly the chance he did not inspect it well or missed something himself. We are all human as I quoted. In comes his ability or lack of to resolve his clear mistake.

If he wants to be a man and fix his mistake he knows where I am or has my Venmo info.

My point was and will state again....over all the years I have never once 2nd guessed a thing.....lesson learned. Cause it has always been about learning about the car, sharing modification info/tricks and making deals amongst ourselves. it has been awesome....I look forward to more in the future but my buying/selling actions will clearly change

[allinon72]

PayPal isn't the end all...I got hosed on eBay and they closed my claim over and over in a very obvious scam situation.