Cost of ownership

[TestySpice]

G'day fellow Aussies,

Later this year i am in the market for a car. After extensive pro and con lists i have narrowed it down to a 2nd hand M3/M4.

So given this ... have days ago joined up to this forum site to learn from all of you. Hear your experiences , hear your knowledge etc.

With this i have a few questions if i may.

Would you be so kind as to inform me as to the pricing of repairs to consumable items ?.....Fluid , Belts , leads , sparks , brakes etc etc. As this is a scary part that i am aware of but would love to know ahead of time what i am potentially in for.

Does 2014 /15 IE F82 models of the above cars run on our Aust version of E10?

Curious also why a $150k car , three years in , is worth 50% of its new value despite them clearly being one of the best cars on earth?

I have more queries.... but happy to save them for a later date.

Thank you all , appreciate the help

Phil

[m4chievous]

Hey mate,

I got my car via the servicing program 3 years ago. No issues and have never paid for servicing as nothing has needed replacing.

Only thing I paid for was tyres. Fuel is 80 to 100 a fortnight and insurance is 1400 a year.

Not sure why the depreciation is so heavy. My wife has an A45 (new 85k) and after 3 years it is approximately 55k.

Hope that helps

[JFH]

Originally Posted by m4chievous

Only thing I paid for was tyres. Fuel is 80 to 100 a fortnight and insurance is 1400 a year.

Out of interest, how many km's do you do per fortnight for $80 - $100 fuel bill?

[mfurse]

The car is known to be relatively reliable, servicing is condition based, although I get my engine oil changed more regularly that the 2 years the computer reckons it needs. Oil change uses any BMW LL rated oil like Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 so you can source or go independent for less than BMW might charge for a change.

Early cars benefit from a software update (iStep) which alters the torque delivery at very low revs in 1st/2nd and improves the Traction control/DCT/steering/dampers/diff. Dealers charge ~$200 AUD to do the update and will warn you if the car is out of warranty as a module could fail during update (unlikely on these cars).

Battery isn't cheap so check if the car has been used regularly or put on a lithium ion battery tender to keep it healthy.

Brakes go on for what seems like forever for road driving, tyre usage is actually not bad at all (15-20K KMs a set not unusual for road driving) and once you replace the standard PSS with the newer Michelin PS4S road noise decreases and grip increases.

Doors can squeak (nothing Teflon tape or Gummi Pfledge won't fix) but interior should be generally rattle and squeak free after years of driving.

Otherwise, this generation of M3 provides reliable, fun motoring at its best I would say!

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by m4chievous

Not sure why the depreciation is so heavy

The BMW dealers could fix the depreciation issue by offering decent trade in prices on M Models. Having said that, used M3/M4's appear hard to sell if you follow them as the same cars are advertised for months despite the heavy depreciation.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The BMW dealers could fix the depreciation issue by offering decent trade in prices on M Models. Having said that, used M3/M4's appear hard to sell if you follow them as the same cars are advertised for months despite the heavy depreciation.

A dealer can only offer what the market dictates.

These cars simply are not as desirable as AMGs in Australia

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

A dealer can only offer what the market dictates.

These cars simply are not as desirable as AMGs in Australia

The dealers are dictating the market focused on profit margins mate. If you couldn't buy an immaculate 3 year old M3/M4 with 30000km's under 100k, people who can't afford 175k for a brand new one will still buy them.

BMW M cars aren't desirable for posers like the AMG cars bearing in mind, many buy M cars for prestige not for the performance engineering BMW offers then they end up with a harsh and noisy hotrod they didn't anticipate. BMW M cars aren't intended to be luxurious, they're a thrasher's car to accommodate people who prioritise performance over luxury.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The dealers are dictating the market focused on profit margins mate. If you couldn't buy an immaculate 3 year old M3/M4 with 30000km's under 100k, people who can't afford 175k for a brand new one will still buy them.

BMW M cars aren't desirable for posers like the AMG cars bearing in mind, many buy M cars for prestige not for the performance engineering BMW offers then they end up with a harsh and noisy hotrod they didn't anticipate. BMW M cars aren't intended to be luxurious, they're a thrasher's car to accommodate people who prioritise performance over luxury.

A dealer can only buy a car for what someone is willing to pay (margin included). It's supply demand. Dealers buying cars well above market prices will serve one function - to send them broke quick smart.

Unfortunately, there just isn't the same demand new or used for m cars.

My M4 CS is a great car. Yes it's fast and loud and a hotrod. But it doesn't miss any of the luxury items. These cars are more than acceptable daily drivers. And as a drivers car - it's miles ahead of any car in the space.

AMG just seems to have the market cornered here. Sales figures confirm that. Say what you like about AMG - but they are dominating the market here - They are clearly offering Australian customers what they want. Maybe the hand built engine BS - who knows. But the resale values are much stronger for AMG cars.

[SE7EN335]

Ownership is actually very affordable. Free servicing for 5 years which is transferable. Make sure you change oil with a BMW LL-01 oil (I personally prefer Valvoline Synpower 0w40) every 5-10K kms.

For my 2016 M3 which has done 55K kms now, other than replacing the engine hydraulic lifters, rear brake shields and front wheel hubs/bearings under warranty, it has been surprisingly reliable

PS: also had the door lock and air con surround rattle and got them both fixed under warranty.

[mfurse]

Originally Posted by drgmt

A dealer can only buy a car for what someone is willing to pay (margin included). It's supply demand. Dealers buying cars well above market prices will serve one function - to send them broke quick smart.

Unfortunately, there just isn't the same demand new or used for m cars.

My M4 CS is a great car. Yes it's fast and loud and a hotrod. But it doesn't miss any of the luxury items. These cars are more than acceptable daily drivers. And as a drivers car - it's miles ahead of any car in the space.

AMG just seems to have the market cornered here. Sales figures confirm that. Say what you like about AMG - but they are dominating the market here - They are clearly offering Australian customers what they want. Maybe the hand built engine BS - who knows. But the resale values are much stronger for AMG cars.

I often wonder why AMG is selling so well especially with a higher starting price. Is it the V8's? Is it the plusher interior? Maybe the M3 is perceived by the layman to be a bit light on engine? The AMG certainly sounds better than the S55!

Aesthetics wise I wouldn't say the C63 sedan to my eyes doesn't look appreciably different to the C200, especially when the M3 looks so different to a 320.

I would often cross shop between the brands though.

[SE7EN335]

Originally Posted by mfurse

The car is known to be relatively reliable, servicing is condition based, although I get my engine oil changed more regularly that the 2 years the computer reckons it needs. Oil change uses any BMW LL rated oil like Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 so you can source or go independent for less than BMW might charge for a change.

Early cars benefit from a software update (iStep) which alters the torque delivery at very low revs in 1st/2nd and improves the Traction control/DCT/steering/dampers/diff. Dealers charge ~$200 AUD to do the update and will warn you if the car is out of warranty as a module could fail during update (unlikely on these cars).

Battery isn't cheap so check if the car has been used regularly or put on a lithium ion battery tender to keep it healthy.

Brakes go on for what seems like forever for road driving, tyre usage is actually not bad at all (15-20K KMs a set not unusual for road driving) and once you replace the standard PSS with the newer Michelin PS4S road noise decreases and grip increases.

Doors can squeak (nothing Teflon tape or Gummi Pfledge won't fix) but interior should be generally rattle and squeak free after years of driving.

Otherwise, this generation of M3 provides reliable, fun motoring at its best I would say!

I have to admit the new version of the iStep is actually better than the early versions. I am becoming a lot more accustomed to the torque delivery of the car now. It seems to spool up around 3K rpm, whereas before it was under 2k rpm, so that it now a lot easier to control and modulate the throttle.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by mfurse

I often wonder why AMG is selling so well especially with a higher starting price. Is it the V8's? Is it the plusher interior? Maybe the M3 is perceived by the layman to be a bit light on engine? The AMG certainly sounds better than the S55!

Aesthetics wise I wouldn't say the C63 sedan to my eyes doesn't look appreciably different to the C200, especially when the M3 looks so different to a 320.

I would often cross shop between the brands though.

It's curious. The F1 presence and success may play a role.

Although the AMG looks better interior wise the quality of materials is inferior - check out the side bolster wear on the AMG performance seats in 12 month old cars as one example.

BMW M has started to take the Australian market seriously now and hopefully they make changes - scrap the base model and release a competition, CS and CSL tier. Australians don't buy base model cars ! They need to promote drive days and support M car clubs etc

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

A dealer can only buy a car for what someone is willing to pay (margin included). It's supply demand. Dealers buying cars well above market prices will serve one function - to send them broke quick smart.

Unfortunately, there just isn't the same demand new or used for m cars.

My M4 CS is a great car. Yes it's fast and loud and a hotrod. But it doesn't miss any of the luxury items. These cars are more than acceptable daily drivers. And as a drivers car - it's miles ahead of any car in the space.

AMG just seems to have the market cornered here. Sales figures confirm that. Say what you like about AMG - but they are dominating the market here - They are clearly offering Australian customers what they want. Maybe the hand built engine BS - who knows. But the resale values are much stronger for AMG cars.

The CS in an awesome car I would have bought if a killer deal on ZCP M4 wasn't given to me that I would have been silly to refuse, but having said that, it doesn't take much aside from a little extra weight to convert a ZCP to CS specs as the running gear is virtually the same.

I wouldn't say the lack of a console lid (armrest) in the CS is the pinnacle of luxury, but it's a dedicated track car none the less and we respect that.

As a luxury ride, my wife's X3 M40i is much better than the M4 for a daily commute and has ample power and handles well enough to keep your drivers licence in tact. Sure you can't turn the M40i into corners without braking and smoke the tyres sideways on exit like you can in the M4, but luxury wise, the M40i is definitely a more comfortable ride.

"All rounder" cars are compromises and they lack something like a C63s will never beat an M4 CS on a race track from stock to radically modified, it's horses for courses realistically.

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by m4chievous

Hey mate,

I got my car via the servicing program 3 years ago. No issues and have never paid for servicing as nothing has needed replacing.

Only thing I paid for was tyres. Fuel is 80 to 100 a fortnight and insurance is 1400 a year.

Not sure why the depreciation is so heavy. My wife has an A45 (new 85k) and after 3 years it is approximately 55k.

Hope that helps

Thank you very much for the reply. Insurance costs should have been one cost that was first on my list but had forgotten about that. So thanks for that alone. I just did a compare the market comparison and from 1800 to 3500 was the replies. Eeeek. Did a Youi one and you were right , 1400 odd for a 1250 excess. 1650 for a 900 excess, which more suits.
Interesting differences..... Thank you again for your assistance.

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by mfurse

The car is known to be relatively reliable, servicing is condition based, although I get my engine oil changed more regularly that the 2 years the computer reckons it needs. Oil change uses any BMW LL rated oil like Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 so you can source or go independent for less than BMW might charge for a change.

Early cars benefit from a software update (iStep) which alters the torque delivery at very low revs in 1st/2nd and improves the Traction control/DCT/steering/dampers/diff. Dealers charge ~$200 AUD to do the update and will warn you if the car is out of warranty as a module could fail during update (unlikely on these cars).

Battery isn't cheap so check if the car has been used regularly or put on a lithium ion battery tender to keep it healthy.

Brakes go on for what seems like forever for road driving, tyre usage is actually not bad at all (15-20K KMs a set not unusual for road driving) and once you replace the standard PSS with the newer Michelin PS4S road noise decreases and grip increases.

Doors can squeak (nothing Teflon tape or Gummi Pfledge won't fix) but interior should be generally rattle and squeak free after years of driving.

Otherwise, this generation of M3 provides reliable, fun motoring at its best I would say!

That is interesting..... the cost of the chip upgrade and the fact that they may break whilst the chip is being flashed with the updated firmware. Does not sound good. The Oil you quote is interesting too , as i did a google pricing on it and it came back with a 5L for around $85. Quite a deal more then what it costs for my current car. Good to know. Battery costs... what do they cost?

Lastly.... 20k out of a set of tyres. Ok... good to know
..... is this the norm?

Thank you too for your help , i do appreciate your input

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The BMW dealers could fix the depreciation issue by offering decent trade in prices on M Models. Having said that, used M3/M4's appear hard to sell if you follow them as the same cars are advertised for months despite the heavy depreciation.

Having saved a few away on my acct within Carsales i can see that you're spot on. There are a few cars there that have been there for some time .... and none have sold in recent weeks. Economy perhaps? who knows.... but you're right.

Thanks for your help too , appreciate it

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The dealers are dictating the market focused on profit margins mate. If you couldn't buy an immaculate 3 year old M3/M4 with 30000km's under 100k, people who can't afford 175k for a brand new one will still buy them.

BMW M cars aren't desirable for posers like the AMG cars bearing in mind, many buy M cars for prestige not for the performance engineering BMW offers then they end up with a harsh and noisy hotrod they didn't anticipate. BMW M cars aren't intended to be luxurious, they're a thrasher's car to accommodate people who prioritise performance over luxury.

I take your point....(they're a thrasher's car to accommodate people who prioritise performance over luxury) though from what i have seen they still hit quite a high level of luxury as well.

Thank you for helping.

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

Ownership is actually very affordable. Free servicing for 5 years which is transferable. Make sure you change oil with a BMW LL-01 oil (I personally prefer Valvoline Synpower 0w40) every 5-10K kms.

For my 2016 M3 which has done 55K kms now, other than replacing the engine hydraulic lifters, rear brake shields and front wheel hubs/bearings under warranty, it has been surprisingly reliable

PS: also had the door lock and air con surround rattle and got them both fixed under warranty.

If you don't mind... when you did your brakes , is it like what i have been told today by a Merc C owner , that when he replaces his pads , the Merc dealership he goes to highly recommends changing the rotors as well. Same for the M3 / M4?

[TestySpice]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

I have to admit the new version of the iStep is actually better than the early versions. I am becoming a lot more accustomed to the torque delivery of the car now. It seems to spool up around 3K rpm, whereas before it was under 2k rpm, so that it now a lot easier to control and modulate the throttle.

Dumb question sorry.... IStep. What is this?
Assumptions from me is that this is the chip that governs the car... am i right?

Thank you for your input too...

[mfurse]

Originally Posted by TestySpice

That is interesting..... the cost of the chip upgrade and the fact that they may break whilst the chip is being flashed with the updated firmware. Does not sound good. The Oil you quote is interesting too , as i did a google pricing on it and it came back with a 5L for around $85. Quite a deal more then what it costs for my current car. Good to know. Battery costs... what do they cost?

Lastly.... 20k out of a set of tyres. Ok... good to know
..... is this the norm?

Thank you too for your help , i do appreciate your input

IStep is the firmware version for the car. It's where they upgrade all the software for the various control units together. Don't be fearful of a failure - BMW only say that when the car is out of warranty to cover themselves. When you take an in warranty car in for a fault they often upgrade the istep to the latest to see if it resolved the issue. The car is designed to have new software loaded.

Battery...it's lithium so it's $2000+ and needs coding by a dealer or specialist. It's supposed to last 10+ years but not if the car you're buying was left in a barn for months 😊

Oil is no big deal honestly.

Tyres...depends on how you drive 😂 it's a light car though so its not as hard as I thought on the tyres.

[MO3]

BMW plays a huge role in M cars not holding their value, compared to AMGs.

A friend of mine paid 184k for his 2014 M4 in 2014. I paid 150k in January 2016 for a similar colour M4 loaded with options. (He didn't have HUD or extended leather). I also paid 137k for my individual 2018 M3 CP. Both cars are brand new with around 20kms on the clock. BMW have a tendency to shaft the early adopters then drop their pants a year or so later with ridiculous discounts.

MB let my friend walk away for a 1k difference. They just wouldn't give a shit. (I find them so arrogant to be honest). They protect their product, just like porsche. A 3 year old C63s is still going for 110-120k now, which is 75% of the original value.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by MO3

BMW plays a huge role in M cars not holding their value, compared to AMGs. A 3 year old C63s is still going for 110-120k now, which is 75% of the original value.

There's 59 used C63s for sale at the moment starting off at 99K. There's 32 M4 ZCP's starting at 92K. There's not much in the asking prices and the C63s have been kicking around unsold like the M4's. The older C63 and M4 pre ZCP's are similar priced. Trade in prices may be better from Merc dealers than M4's from BMW dealers but the open used car market asking prices are much the same and both appear hard to sell given the length of time they've been advertised and not sold.